Italy delivering surplus self-propelled howitzers to Pakistan Army

[Ahmet Pasha]

Hope we get some surplus EFT tranche I,IIs as well.

 

[MilSpec]

r4

i understand sir and am quite well aware of the procurement procedures for surplus. But my point is, is there any wisdom in getting outdated howitzers to face an enemy whose getting 777s with gps correction if I’m not mistaken.

I mean it’s a good buy considering the price. Laikin 1970 ki mercedes aur 2017 main difference toh Hota hai na. Warna no one would buy the new model. If you know what I mean.

They Could only be employed on the western border, effectively.

Actually no, Pakistan SPH fleet is far more superior to anything India has, if you try to research how many SPH's Indian Army has, the number would make you roll on the floor laughing.

 

[Signalian]

Hope we get some surplus EFT tranche I,IIs as well.

Wait for 50 years.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/qata...ver-mirage-2000-5s.440768/page-4#post-8498054

r4

i understand sir and am quite well aware of the procurement procedures for surplus. But my point is, is there any wisdom in getting outdated howitzers to face an enemy whose getting 777s with gps correction if I’m not mistaken.

M777 is not SP. Its Light weight so would be deployed in mountains probably. M109 can come across M777 if its deployed in IA RAPID's or if PA armored formations attack IA infantry formations with M777 in Arty Bde.

 

[Gryphon]

Pakistan Army IABG / IMBG list:

Confirmed Status/Location/Corps HQ:

• 2 IABG - Karachi (V Corps)
• 3 IABG - Chunian (4 Corps)
• 8 IABG - Kharian (1 Corps)
• 10 IABG - Bahawalpur (31 Corps)
• 14 IABG - Bahawalpur (31 Corps)
• 19 IABG - Gujranwala (30 Corps)
• 330 IABG - Karachi (V Corps)
• 44 IMBG - Bahawalpur (31 Corps)

Unknown status/location:

• 12 IABG - Karachi ? (merged with 25 Mech. Div. ?)
• 42 IABG - Multan ?
• 31 IMBG - Karachi ? (merged with 25 Mech. Div. ?)

No evidence 10, 11 and 12 Corps HQ's have any IABG / IMBG under their command.

 

[CriticalThought]

Pakistan Army IABG / IMBG list:

Confirmed Status/Location/Corps HQ:

• 2 IABG - Karachi (V Corps)
• 3 IABG - Chunian (4 Corps)
• 8 IABG - Kharian (1 Corps)
• 10 IABG - Bahawalpur (31 Corps)
• 14 IABG - Bahawalpur (31 Corps)
• 19 IABG - Gujranwala (30 Corps)
• 330 IABG - Karachi (V Corps)
• 44 IMBG - Bahawalpur (31 Corps)

Unknown status/location:

• 12 IABG - Karachi ? (merged with 25 Mech. Div. ?)
• 42 IABG - Multan ?
• 31 IMBG - Karachi ? (merged with 25 Mech. Div. ?)

No evidence 10, 11 and 12 Corps HQ's have any IABG / IMBG under their command.

IABG includes infantry + armor + artillery + helis?

 

[Gryphon]

IABG includes infantry + armor + artillery + helis?

Each IABG has:

• 2x Armoured regiments (44 x 2 = 88 MBT)
• 1x Mechanized infantry battalion (50 APC)
• 1x SP Medium regiment (12-18 M109 howitzers)
• 1x SP AD regiment (12-18 RBS-70 mounted M113-type APCs)
• Engineer (AVLB, ARV, etc) unit.

If the SP Medium / AD regiment is not present, assets can be provided from Corps Artillery or Corps Air Defence brigade.

 

[Cuirassier]

Each IABG has:

• 2x Armoured regiments (44 x 2 = 88 MBT)
• 1x Mechanized infantry battalion (50 APC)
• 1x SP Medium regiment (12-18 M109 howitzers)
• 1x SP AD regiment (12-18 RBS-70 mounted M113-type APCs)
• Engineer (AVLB, ARV, etc) unit.

If the SP Medium / AD regiment is not present, assets can be provided from Corps Artillery or Corps Air Defence brigade.

I always thought the 101st Indpt Infantry Brigade in Bahawalpur Corps was actually the one getting mechanized with a MBT regt.

 

[CriticalThought]

Each IABG has:

• 2x Armoured regiments (44 x 2 = 88 MBT)
• 1x Mechanized infantry battalion (50 APC)
• 1x SP Medium regiment (12-18 M109 howitzers)
• 1x SP AD regiment (12-18 RBS-70 mounted M113-type APCs)
• Engineer (AVLB, ARV, etc) unit.

If the SP Medium / AD regiment is not present, assets can be provided from Corps Artillery or Corps Air Defence brigade.

SubhanAllah!!!!! Awesome firepower!!! And this doesn't include MBRLs and Nasr yet! I only wish to see more attack helis, UCAVs, and UAVs. Hopefully, with some indigenous production of ATAK components, this will be realized, Insha Allah.

 

[fatman17]

Land Platforms

Leonardo testing upgraded M109L SP artillery system

Christopher F Foss, London - Jane's International Defence Review

29 January 2019

Italy’s Leonardo Defence Systems has developed and tested an upgrade package, aimed at the export market, for the M109L 155 mm self-propelled (SP) artillery system.

The standard M109L is fitted with an Italian-built 155 mm/39 calibre ordnance that is the equivalent to that fitted to the 155 mm FH-70 towed artillery system still deployed by the Italian Army.

The latest upgraded M109L has a 23 litre chamber and meets the Joint Ballistic Memorandum of Understanding (JBMOU). It is also fitted with a fume extractor and a new pepper box muzzle brake.

The recoil system and equilibrators were modified to take into account the increased recoil and weight of the 155 mm/52 calibre ordnance.

 

[Gryphon]

I always thought the 101st Indpt Infantry Brigade in Bahawalpur Corps was actually the one getting mechanized with a MBT regt.

This is the probable composition of PA's two mechanized divisions. The IABG's & IMBG's retain their independent character, but can operate together as a division under HQ Mech Div as per requirements. HQ Mech Div may also provide artillery/air defence assets from its respective brigades.

26 Mech. Div. (HQ) commands:
10 IABG - Bwp (2)
14 IABG - Bwp (2)
44 IMBG - Bwp (1)

25 Mech. Div. (HQ) commands:
12 IABG - Malir (2)
330 IABG - Malir (2)
31 IMBG - Malir (1)

I believe the first AK-1 regiment that came into existence 2 years back is part of a new IABG (not mentioned above) under HQ 31 Corps.



























On 26 January 2019, Pakistan Army received a batch of 31x M109L SPH's. With the latest deliveries, the total number of M109L's delivered so far reached 122.


Pakistan Army M109 inventory:

152x M109A2

115x M109A5

122x M109L (more deliveries expected)

Total: 389


Possible distribution:

M109A2:
3 + 3 regiments in 2x Armd. Div. Arty brigades (18 x 6 = 108)
1 + 1 regiments in 2x IABG incl. 19 IABG (18 x 2 = 36)

M109A5:
3 + 3 regiments in 2x Mech. Div. Arty brigades (18 x 6 = 108)

M109L:
1 + 1 + 1 regiments in 3x IABG (18 x 3 = 54)

It is unclear how the remaining pcs will be distributed, but allocation of 1x battery (6 SPH) per Infantry Division armoured regiment is plausible.

@Path-Finder @HRK @Signalian @Starlord @CriticalThought @waz

 

[HariPrasad]

Looks good. Is it the same gun Pakistan is buying?

 

[Gryphon]

Looks good. Is it the same gun Pakistan is buying?

M109L variant en route Pakistan in 2017. PA may end up buying the entire Italian inventory. Leonardo will also offer the 52 cal. upgrade.

 

[Path-Finder]

M109L variant en route Pakistan in 2017. PA may end up buying the entire Italian inventory. Leonardo will also offer the 52 cal. upgrade.

Pakistan has basically without spending too much made a huge impact by acquiring these guns. These guns are capable of massive upgrades and they won't need a long time for induction because infrastructure already exists.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Pakistan has basically without spending too much made a huge impact by acquiring these guns. These guns are capable of massive upgrades and they won't need a long time for induction because infrastructure already exists.

and provide much needed firepower to PA , they can fire and move to another location quick to prevent getting hurt by any return enemy Fire ..for that very reason i am big fan of SPH and MLRS .

 

[Armchair]

Wonder what condition the APCs are in and if they would make a good buy. Would really help restore the balance as India developed a massive imbalance vis-a-vis Pakistan on APCs and assorted armored vehicles.