‘It never stops’: killings by US police reach record high, at least 1,176 people or about 100 people a month in 2022

[jhungary]

he was tased after he was handcuffed and secure , I don't care about the use of taser before he was secure , he resisted arrest and the police must use force to secure him and they were right on using it until then. the problem is several time use of taser after he was cuffed and was on the ground face down . what warranted those tasers.
if you see the both videos you see in the police video they cut the last round of tasing him after his hands were cuffed

He was NOT handcuffed and secure. That is the entire point.

This is the video you use as reference

You can see the first tase went in at 2:03. at 2:07 you can clearly see his hands are free, both hands.

Second one at 2:15, Third one at 2:20, Fourth one at 2:26, one of the cops ask the other one (Did you need a handcuff) at 2:31 Handcuff going in at 2:43 (you can hear the handcuff clicking at 2:45 in the video) and the last tase is at 2:47

And on the cops released footage, you can clearly see the cuff only went in when they are doing the 6th tase.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Again, tase 1 to 6 is PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED, that's what textbook for why Taser is used for, the police shouted command, the subject DISOBEY the command, and very obviously resisting arrest on video, if that is not the time to deploy taser, then it NEVER going to be

that's justified till the last ones that were clearly after he was cuffed and on the ground , nobody say why they tased him before that , the question is why he was tased after that

I don't know as I am not an expert on who looks like they are under the influence, I mean, as a cop for over a decade, I can never distinguish between a person who high on drug or a person who just have too little to sleep by the way of just looking at them, you know when you interact with these people extensively, and for sure when you give them a field sobriety test, I don't think the cops went that far in this case.

well to me his behavior's at the beginning of the video and his talking shows he is under influence of something , drugs, alcohol or mental illness

On the other hand, if he would have a bad reaction to taser because of the elevated adrenaline level leads to cardiac arrythmia, that would have shown in the first hour of being tased, not 5 hours after he was in a hospital.

well in our texts its stated if after contact with electricity (high voltage and taser is around 50,000 volt but at a few milliampere ) this is direct copy of relevant paragraph in our text book

The degree of tissue damage is directly proportional to the duration of exposure for all voltage levels. Exposure times greater than the length of one cardiac cycle tend to generate dysrhythmias, likely in a manner analogous to the R-on-T phenomenon.

High-voltage exposures are associated with higher rates of cardiac complications, although low-voltage exposures can also cause cardiac arrest.2 Traditionally, it is believed that AC causes ventricular fibrillation and DC causes asystole. In reality, exposure to either type of circuit is associated with both dysrhythmias, especially at higher voltages.

Most dysrhythmias are seen immediately following electrocution. These include life-threatening dysrhythmias, but more frequently involve sinus tachycardia or bradycardia, atrial fibrillation, and ectopic beats. A variety of electrocardiographic abnormalities may be present, including transient ST elevation or depression that does not correlate with myocardial ischemia or infarction. Injury to coronary arteries or directly to the myocardium may result in infarction, but this is rare.

Dysrhythmias may also appear in a delayed fashion, with case reports of fatal dysrhythmias, although the limited available studies suggest the risk is very low.

Patients with electrocardiographic signs of cardiac injury or dysrhythmias and patients with more than minimal local signs and symptoms should be monitored in the emergency department (ED), observation unit, or inpatient setting, depending on the extent and severity of associated injuries. Dysrhythmias are treated according to advanced cardiovascular life support (ACLS) guidelines.

now the interesting part about Tasers

Conducted Electrical Weapon
Unless there is a concomitant condition present that requires further care or admission, routine cardiac monitoring, ED observation, or hospitalization is not recommended for patients who are awake, alert, and asymptomatic who have had CEW exposure less than 15 seconds. For patients who have had CEW exposure for greater than 15 seconds, there is limited experience and no clear guidelines exist, so an observation period of 6 to 8 hours is a reasonable approach.

as a rule we observe any electrical injury with cardiac signs (electrical or biochemical) or any high voltage electrical injury for at least 12-24 hour because the arrythmia , cardiac arrest or even respiratory arrest can occur way beyond that 4-5 hours you mentioned . and Tasers usually are safe but the safety is only for less than 15 second of contact more than that go into category of the time of contact , the more the time the higher the cellular damage .
by the way the threshold of high voltage electricity is 1000 Volt

 

[lastofthepatriots]

In my entire time in the US, I’ve met 2 good cops. They are mostly scumbags. ****’em.

 

[Hack-Hook]

He was NOT handcuffed and secure. That is the entire point.

This is the video you use as reference

You can see the first tase went in at 2:03. at 2:07 you can clearly see his hands are free, both hands.

Second one at 2:15, Third one at 2:20, Fourth one at 2:26, one of the cops ask the other one (Did you need a handcuff) at 2:31 Handcuff going in at 2:43 (you can hear the handcuff clicking at 2:45 in the video) and the last tase is at 2:47

And on the cops released footage, you can clearly see the cuff only went in when they are doing the 6th tase.

View attachment 911451

I don't dispute the right of the police to use the taser the first 6 times ( I didn't count them so I'm not sure about the numbers) (but honestly I preferred they used shorter bursts) what i say is the last one was use of unnecessary force , it was after he being handcuffed and 3 officer had him under control at that moment he was threat to no one they could tie his foot without the use of the last shock and he would have been as harmless as a baby

 

[jhungary]

that's justified till the last ones that were clearly after he was cuffed and on the ground , nobody say why they tased him before that , the question is why he was tased after that

As I said, 1 to 6 is textbook, the 7th is debatable. Again, we can't (at least I can't) see if he really stopped struggling, just because someone is cuffed that does not equate to he was not struggling with the Police, I had many time got kicked and punch after I put handcuff on someone, handcuff only limited one's motion, it does not make him/her not to be aggressive.

well to me his behavior's at the beginning of the video and his talking shows he is under influence of something , drugs, alcohol or mental illness

Not a psychologist or anything, but I can't tell he is under the influence.

Slur Speech, disorientation is common just from the shock from the accident itself (which is why the cops were called to begin with)

On the other hand, it can be like you said he is just suffering from mental episode, I mean as I said, there are no way you will know he is under the influence unless you test him or have a long engagement with him.

well in our texts its stated if after contact with electricity (high voltage and taser is around 50,000 volt but at a few milliampere ) this is direct copy of relevant paragraph in our text book

now the interesting part about Tasers

as a rule we observe any electrical injury with cardiac signs (electrical or biochemical) or any high voltage electrical injury for at least 12-24 hour because the arrythmia , cardiac arrest or even respiratory arrest can occur way beyond that 4-5 hours you mentioned . and Tasers usually are safe but the safety is only for less than 15 second of contact more than that go into category of the time of contact , the more the time the higher the cellular damage .

The question is how likely it causes arrythmia after 5 hours??

That's a long window for other things to happen, as I said, you want to convict someone, you need to proof beyond all reasonable doubt that they are guilty of what you are trying to proof.

Problem is, I don't see any medical professional can point that into the direct clause of the taser being use, on top of that, it's was most likely being used in a lawful manner. So as I said in the first post, good luck try to proof it in court.

I don't dispute the right of the police to use the taser the first 6 times ( I didn't count them so I'm not sure about the numbers) (but honestly I preferred they used shorter bursts) what i say is the last one was use of unnecessary force , it was after he being handcuffed and 3 officer had him under control at that moment he was threat to no one they could tie his foot without the use of the last shock and he would have been as harmless as a baby

Again, just because someone is cuffed, that is not the same as he is being subdued. In the old days (as in before George Floyd) it is claim to be secure when you are sitting on top of him, or putting your leg across his chest or neck (Which is what the cop did to George Floyd) pinning him down on the floor, that was NOT done in this case as you can see he still and did move a lot after being cuffed.

The word "Harmless" is too layman to use now, you need to think of him on whether or not still being a threat, in this case, I can't tell, with the 4 cameras that was released. And as I said, it is debatable and knowing the law, which mean it would give the benefit to the defendent, so most likely if this went to trial, the cop is going to be found the action is legal.

 

[Hack-Hook]

As I said, 1 to 6 is textbook, the 7th is debatable. Again, we can't (at least I can't) see if he really stopped struggling, just because someone is cuffed that does not equate to he was not struggling with the Police, I had many time got kicked and punch after I put handcuff on someone, handcuff only limited one's motion, it does not make him/her not to be aggressive.

have you ever saw somebody under the effect of stimulant and alcohol at the same time stop struggling when you want to restrain him ?

Not a psychologist or anything, but I can't tell he is under the influence.

Slur Speech, disorientation is common just from the shock from the accident itself (which is why the cops were called to begin with)

On the other hand, it can be like you said he is just suffering from mental episode, I mean as I said, there are no way you will know he is under the influence unless you test him or have a long engagement with him.

a question , when the first cup asked for reinforcement how he describe the situation ?

Again, just because someone is cuffed, that is not the same as he is being subdued. In the old days (as in before George Floyd) it is claim to be secure when you are sitting on top of him, or putting your leg across his chest or neck (Which is what the cop did to George Floyd) pinning him down on the floor, that was NOT done in this case as you can see he still and did move a lot after being cuffed.

why taser are given to police? and why you need him silent and not moving when he is face down on the ground and hand cuffed at his back . that is impossible for a person that is delusional and under influence , just cuff him and let him be there until EMS come and they now how to silent him if that is necessary . your duty as a police is not to sedate him , he was under control and arrested and could not go anywhere , why you want to do something more than your duty .

 

[jhungary]

have you ever saw somebody under the effect of stimulant and alcohol at the same time stop struggling when you want to restrain him ?

Hence why they used the taser. The point is not whether or not he was in cuff, the point is whether or not he continues to struggle. again, I don't know about you, but as a person who do this type of thing for a living, I can't see if he was still struggling that warranted another tase, it may or may not, just the camera angle is not enough to proof either way, which mean in a court of law type of situation where you need to be 95% sure, you can't say he is subdued.

a question , when the first cup asked for reinforcement how he describe the situation ?

You mean in this or in general??

I don't know how they ask for reinforcement in this as that part was cut,

In general, you give them a general description and why you need reinforcement

In this case, if this was me, and what I think or how I think it went down, I will talk to dispatch about a male (physical description (black, around 30, don't know how tall, and probably describe what he was wearing) resisting arrest and fleeing from the scene.

why taser are given to police? and why you need him silent and not moving when he is face down on the ground and hand cuffed at his back . that is impossible for a person that is delusional and under influence , just cuff him and let him be there until EMS come and they now how to silent him if that is necessary . your duty as a police is not to sedate him , he was under control and arrested and could not go anywhere , why you want to do something more than your duty .

I never said silent him. I said if you want to subdue someone you need to restrain them from moving, again, in the old days, it's a leg across the neck or chest so he can't move his hand and his back. But since George Floyd, this is more or less abandoned.

Just because he is cuffed, that does not mean.

A.) He cannot struggle with you.
B.) He cannot get up and run away
C.) He cannot pose a threat to you, as in he could still access to his concealed weapon if he has any.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Hence why they used the taser. The point is not whether or not he was in cuff, the point is whether or not he continues to struggle. again, I don't know about you, but as a person who do this type of thing for a living, I can't see if he was still struggling that warranted another tase, it may or may not, just the camera angle is not enough to proof either way, which mean in a court of law type of situation where you need to be 95% sure, you can't say he is subdued.

have you ever saw a person delusional and under influence who is not struggling after being restrained ? , why he must be motionless , just handcuff and tie him and let he struggle as much as he like . you are not trained in making the guy sedate and motionless and the more you use force , the situation in such person become worsen.

I never said silent him. I said if you want to subdue someone you need to restrain them from moving, again, in the old days, it's a leg across the neck or chest so he can't move his hand and his back. But since George Floyd, this is more or less abandoned.

Just because he is cuffed, that does not mean.

A.) He cannot struggle with you.
B.) He cannot get up and run away
C.) He cannot pose a threat to you, as in he could still access to his concealed weapon if he has any.

how he can get up and escape if 3 police officer restrain him and hand cuff him with his hand at back and tied his leg ?

You mean in this or in general??

I don't know how they ask for reinforcement in this as that part was cut,

its at 5:24

the officer at scene when call dispatch clearly say Possible DUI driver and he clearly knew he need additional help to restrain him as he say immediately after that can I get additional unit, please
the point is you can not expect somebody under influence stay subdued and motionless.
you just make sure he can't escape and let the ones who equipped better to make him motionless and silent until the effect of the drug go away

 

[jhungary]

have you ever saw a person delusional and under influence who is not struggling after being restrained ? , why he must be motionless , just handcuff and tie him and let he struggle as much as he like . you are not trained in making the guy sedate and motionless and the more you use force , the situation in such person become worsen.

That's because of the safety of the officer.

Just because someone is cuffed, that does not mean he can't struggle or pull someone off from his wristband, I don't know, something like a concealed firearm if he had one?

You don't just cuff him and put him on the floor, you either got arrested willingly or you are going to be restrained. And when you are restrained, you can't move, that's the definition of being restrained.

how he can get up and escape if 3 police officer restrain him and hand cuff him with his hand at back and tied his leg ?

I don't know, what we have been talking about for 4 post straight??

I will say that again

JUST BECAUSE HE IS CUFFED, THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE CANNOT STRUGGLE WITH THE POLICE.

How can he get up and run away you ask? How about we leave him alone after he is cuffed and then he pull a knife or gun from his waistband behind his back and knife or shot the 3 cops? I don't know if he had a gun or knife concealed somewhere.

its at 5:24

the officer at scene when call dispatch clearly say Possible DUI driver and he clearly knew he need additional help to restrain him as he say immediately after that can I get additional unit, please
the point is you can not expect somebody under influence stay subdued and motionless.
you just make sure he can't escape and let the ones who equipped better to make him motionless and silent until the effect of the drug go away

The keyword here is "POSSIBLE" that's generic term for "when you don't know". That's why it is possible.

I said I wouldn't know FOR SURE until i have a longer engagement with him or drug test him on the spot, otherwise I would also say it's "Possible DUI" because I DON'T KNOW if that guy is under the influence.

And please do tell me how do you make sure he can't escape when he is still struggling with you without tasing him? I would really love the answer to this question.

Again, in a policing perspective, he is uncooperative, he is resisting, how would you think what will happen even the cuff went in? Do you think he will just give up when you cuff him? On the other hand, as I said 4 times now, there are at no point I can tell you he wasn't resisting after the 6th tase and after he was supposedly cuffed. Judging from the cops who said "Do you need a second cuff" which mean whatever he is cuffed with is "Possibly" not working, again, that will go toward the defence.

Unless you can definitely (around 95% sure) to say judging from the video, the suspect in this case is cooperating after the 6th tase, then yes, the 7th tase would be illegal, I honestly can't, if you can, please state why you can tell he is cooperating.

 

[Hack-Hook]

That's because of the safety of the officer.

Just because someone is cuffed, that does not mean he can't struggle or pull someone off from his wristband, I don't know, something like a concealed firearm if he had one?

how can you use concealed fire arm if you are handcuffed by your hand from back and isn't searching him for any weapon after handcuff him is part of the drill ?

JUST BECAUSE HE IS CUFFED, THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE CANNOT STRUGGLE WITH THE POLICE.

honestly I can't see how somebody handcuffed and leg tied can struggle or put police on harm . well its not my job maybe you guys saw something i didn't saw , but even if it's possible to do so , it probably need clear state of the mind and as it's clear from the video he is in no clear state of mind or capable of any meaningful planning . right now his thinking pattern is probably magical thinking rather than practical one .

I said I wouldn't know FOR SURE until i have a longer engagement with him or drug test him on the spot, otherwise I would also say it's "Possible DUI" because I DON'T KNOW if that guy is under the influence.

isn't 10 min enough interaction time , honestly do you consider his action normal after 1 min of watching the video ?

And please do tell me how do you make sure he can't escape when he is still struggling with you without tasing him? I would really love the answer to this question.

they hand cuffed him , put him face down on the ground , tie his foot . and they are at least 4 people , how he can escape ?
and again as I said many time you can't ever have a not struggling person under the influence of the drug and alcohol while you restrain him after 3 year dealing with drunks at least I learned that you won't force them down , you don't raise your voice on them you talk them down

 

[925boy]

Multiethnic states do not work and tend to be dysfunctional.

Ok, but this cant be a justification for racism in multiethnic states, and some multi ethnic states function much better than others, even if they still have issues.

 

[jhungary]

how can you use concealed fire arm if you are handcuffed by your hand from back and isn't searching him for any weapon after handcuff him is part of the drill ?

How can you use concealed firearm if you are handcuffed and hand behind your back? You can test it yourself. Put a TV remote under your belt or in the pocket and put it behind your back, the put both arms behind your back and see if you can swing that remote and point it to people in front of you just by using your wrist?? I can sure as hell do that. You do know, as a doctor, your shoulder joint have a >180 degree of range of motion, right??

And yes, searching for weapon is after putting on the cuff, but you still have to secure the person first, he was tased the 7th time 2 seconds after being handcuffed (again, go back to my time stamp on the video) are you telling me you can secure a person in 2 seconds??

honestly I can't see how somebody handcuffed and leg tied can struggle or put police on harm . well its not my job maybe you guys saw something i didn't saw , but even if it's possible to do so , it probably need clear state of the mind and as it's clear from the video he is in no clear state of mind or capable of any meaningful planning . right now his thinking pattern is probably magical thinking rather than practical one .

If you arrested that dude and argue his state of mind in court you are more than welcome to do it, out in the field try to put someone in order, state of mind mean shit.

Again, I personally know someone was killed by a drunk fool who have completely lost his state of mind. You are thinking "That guy wasn't thinking straight, so he must be of no harm" well, that's wrong, as a matter of fact I know.

isn't 10 min enough interaction time , honestly do you consider his action normal after 1 min of watching the video ?

they hand cuffed him , put him face down on the ground , tie his foot . and they are at least 4 people , how he can escape ?
and again as I said many time you can't ever have a not struggling person under the influence of the drug and alcohol while you restrain him after 3 year dealing with drunks at least I learned that you won't force them down , you don't raise your voice on them you talk them down

No, 10 minutes with majority of those are either struggling or chasing that dude, that didn't tell.

I see people escape with pants under their knee and hands behind their back, if you want to escape, you will, at least try to do it. I mean, you are free to do whatever you want, that's you. But we are commenting on someone's action, this is not your action or illegal, what you think you will do is not the definitive way to think if that guy was wrong, it just means you will do it differently.

We are talking about whether or not the cop should have tase him the 7 times, as I said, I can't see why and why not just by these video, unless you can see things I can't see or you have a more exclusive video showing the subject is indeed NOT resisting, then I will give the benefit of the doubt to the cop performing the action, which is what court of law will do. Just because you think you won't do it like this, doesn't mean what the cop do is out of line.

The line here, again, is whether or not the cop thinks the subject is still resisting past the 6th tase, if the subject is, then the 7th will be justified. It's that simple. It doesn't matter if you think the subject is drunk or under the influence, or whether or not you think you should wait, or whether or not you think you should talk them down. That's irrelevant. The rules said, if a subject is disobeying your command and resisting, you are clear to tase him if you have issued a warning. Because that is the basis of whether or not the action is lawful. Not what you think you should have done.

 

[uhuru]

lol, Uighur's whole popullation is just 10 million, you really know nothing besides trolling, if they are inn camps, where are those huge crowds from?

This is not true uighur culture.

Show us ramadhan prayers, friday prayers from last week alone. you will see there are no young people. Unbelievable how much lies you new imperialists can make like the western imperialists.

Take your lies elsewhere.. another shenzi spammer.
This forum loves your kind - both shenzis and bhindians.

 

[beijingwalker]

This is not true uighur culture.

What is true uighur culture? are you an Uighur?

 

[DabbuSardar]

All 55 minority groups together account for 8.89% of the Chinese population, and most of these 55 ethnic groups have no difference from Han Chinese and they don't even know they are actually not Han Chinese. China is a highly homogenous country.

That might be the problem, China needs to sterilize han chinese and keep the one child policy for them, so the minority does not suffer