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It may be hard to accept, but Pakistan won't help India on terror

That same musharraf also accept that your army helping terrorist against India on record so you yourself milking snakes.

Even TTP is born by Taliban which was created by your army and gov.

As if India never helped any terrorist groups against Pakistan before kashmir insurgency eh ? For every action, there comes an reaction and cycle continues until one becomes weak

And about your TTP remark, you are totally mistaken and completely ignorant, who ,when and why TTP was formed. TTP was not born by Taliban. It was a separate and distinct group from Taliban.
 
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By same yard stick, how can we trust whatever words coming out from your Establishment ? They deny any involvement in Pakistan while on other Hand Indian MI TSD unit ran missions in pakistan until it got disbanded in 2013.

Musharraf may be many things, but the facts and figures like TSD unit of your MI, Indian MI helping Northern alliance since 2002 (as per your own newspapers) aren't my figment of imagination. These facts corroborates with Musharraf statements ! Did India denied officially Musharraf blames which he blurted in Indian conference ?



While you raised a point about Kargil. Who occupied Kargil first by making an incursion in to Pakistan land ?

Those werent some mistakes in Srilanka, you were trying to achieve strategic depth, to contain blowback and spread of LTTE in tamil nadu and near by areas. Now put yourself in same shoes of Pakistan and ty to understand what it likes to keep an open line of communication with Haqqani group so that Haqqani tribe which lives in both side of border and considered noble tribesman on both side of border due to their Afghan jihad involvement, does not turn and instigate other tribes to rebel against Pakistan.

By making Ludicrous claims about OBL and implying he being state guest of Pakistan.Did author consider how CIA tracked those 11 Twin tower bombers from 2000 and fail to mention their presence on US soil to FBI and related Law enforcement agencies? Using Author hollow logic, OBL and CIA must have strategic alliance so to accommodate those 11 terrorists on an american soil and in return CIA and US army would get an excuse to wage "CRUSADE" against Muslims in name of war on terror


You can see there .Every Indian actions was just defensive.Or mere reaction comeafter that an offensive from Pakistan against us.
IA set up a TSD only as a reaction for Mumbai attack .Can you deny that?
We dont have any TSD before 26/11 attack .

Who drag us in to Afghanistan ?You should ask you about that.
Indian politiciabs dont have any long strategic vision.But they began to take reactive action only after Kandhar episode.
Any way that is offtopic.
What is Iam trying to say both that cases are just showing the reactive or defensive nature of India.

You're not making any sense. If US were to change their claim, we can discuss that at the time it happens. For now, we know that Pakistan did not protect OBL, and have known that since OBL was killed, yet the article claims otherwise. Remember, US is the victim here. So if it rejects the claim, it means it didn't happen. By making the claim, the author is making a conspiracy theory by definition.

US was the one that create this monster.
For their own strategic purpose in Afghanistan against Soviet Union .And after when they completed their mission they just leave their entire action and assets in Afghanistan in return some vested interests used it against us.
Until 2001 we were forced to live with that fire.Only after 9/11 they become aware about their deeds.
I agree with you perhaps Pak leadership
didnt know about it.
But some of them in your agencies had enough info about OBL .
That is why they didnt share their concerns with your leaders.
 
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By Kanwal Sibal 23 Dec 2014

The problem for India is that Pakistan is unable to deal with domestic terrorism, which is become more lethal - as the latest incident of the brutal killing of school children in Peshawar shows.

At the same time, it is unwilling to deal with terrorism from its soil directed at India and Afghanistan, because the groups involved are considered as strategic assets.

Denial

The gut issue is that the groups nurtured by Pakistan to promote terrorist attacks against us are viewed as freedom fighters and not terrorists. If jihad is a religious obligation, then for Pakistan to treat jihadi groups as terrorist groups would be going against basic Islamic tenets.

A huge gap therefore exits in how we characterise anti-India jihadi groups in Pakistan, and how Pakistan sees them.

For us they are terrorists; for the Pakistanis they are groups fighting for Kashmir’s freedom and against Indian atrocities on their co-religionists there.

We, therefore, talk at cross purposes when we speak about cooperating with each other in combating the menace of terrorism. Pakistan tactically accepts the inclusion of terrorism in our dialogue agenda because otherwise India will not talk about Kashmir, which is Pakistan’s core issue.

Because of the enormity of the Mumbai attacks in which foreign nationals were also killed, a Pakistani was caught alive and a US informer identified the masterminds in Pakistan, the latter could no longer resort to its habitual denials and obfuscations about its responsibility.

Subsequently, Pakistan has used all possible legal and procedural tricks to delay trying those responsible for the Mumbai massacre, citing India’s own dilatory legal processes, and, more deplorably, alleging, as Nawaz Sharif’s foreign policy adviser has just done, that India has not provided enough evidence to inculpate the accused.

Pakistan has been shifting the responsibility for the delay in the trial on to India’s shoulders, when all the evidence is there and it is incumbent on Pakistani authorities to do the necessary investigation.

It clearly has no interest in getting to the bottom of the case and unveiling the complicity of its state agencies in it.

Cornered, Pakistan has been striking back by equating the Mumbai attack to the one on the Samjhauta Express and citing the delay in the Samjhauta investigation to justify that in the case of those accused of the Mumbai mayhem.

Worse, the Pakistanis now exhibit impatience with India’s insistence on playing the old and tiresome Mumbai record, and conveniently advise us to look ahead rather than remain fixated on the past.

For them, Indian accusations of Pakistani involvement in terrorism have no basis, as Pakistan is itself a victim of terrorism, and they regurgitate, irrelevantly for us, the figures of casualties suffered by its citizens and security forces to prove the country’s innocence.

Malign

India is charged with deliberately maligning Pakistan’s image internationally by our allegations. To erode any high moral ground that India may have gained in the exposure of Pakistani terrorist links with Mumbai, Pakistan harps on Indian involvement in the Baluchistan insurgency.

In a feverish bid to ensure that the two countries have parity in misdeeds, we are accused of supporting the homicidal Pakistani Taliban in cahoots with the Afghan intelligence.

Pakistan would have concluded in the last six years that while India regularly raises the Mumbai trial issue, it is not making engagement with the Pakistan contingent on progress.

If the dialogue has been interrupted in the past, it is for other reasons, such as beheadings of Indian soldiers on the LoC or the Pakistani High Commissioner meeting the Hurriyat leaders inopportunely.

The US and some others too, in joint statements with us, ask Pakistan to proceed expeditiously with the trial. But for Pakistan all this is pro-forma, with no costs imposed for recalcitrance.

President Obama has just announced a $1 billion compensation package for Pakistan, even when he is imposing severe sanctions on President Putin’s Russia, which neither gave shelter to Osama bin Laden nor supported the Afghan Taliban and the Haqqani group to cause loss of US lives.

Our reaction to the recent gruesome incident at Peshawar should be in this larger context. Even though we are the biggest victims of Pakistani terrorism, our sincere condolences to Pakistan over this horror were completely in order.

But, then, more people were killed or wounded as wantonly in Mumbai – 164 dead and 308 wounded. The dead may not have been children, but they left children behind.

Realities


Instead of any outpouring of grief in Pakistan at this horrific act, the reaction there was to deny Pakistani involvement, or that Ajmal Kasab was a Pakistani. It was even suggested by Pakistan’s Interior Minister that our own agencies may have engineered this act.

Foreign diplomats in Delhi did not participate in a candle light vigil outside the Indian Foreign Office in sympathy, with the Pakistani High Commissioner present. Unlike us, the Pakistani parliament and Pakistani schools did not observe two minutes of silence over Mumbai.

Former President Musharraf holds RAW and Afghan intelligence responsible for the Peshawar attack and advocates retaliation. Hafiz Saeed sings the same tune - as do, apparently, sections of the Pakistani media.

The effort is to shield the Pakistani Taliban from the ignominy of their act and prevent much-needed soul-searching at the national level.

The day after we go out of our way to express solidarity with our long-time tormentor, a Pakistani court orders the release of the principal accused in the Mumbai case.

There is a lesson to be learnt from all this – about Pakistan’s structural inability to erase terrorism from its soil.

But when it comes to Pakistan, we prefer the comfort of hopes over hard realities.

The writer is a former Foreign Secretary

It may be hard to accept, but Pakistan won't help India on terror | Daily Mail Online

After blocking Pakistani water, India is planning to fill dams with their tears.
 
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Even if the Peshawar attack can't awake the conscience of Pakistani establishment/ppl to fight with terrorism without any distinction then god can only help them....
 
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Even if the Peshawar attack can't awake the conscience of Pakistani establishment/ppl to fight with terrorism without any distinction then god can only help them....

They only want to fight with Bad terrorism not with good one.

Their gov and army still dnt want to leave their strategic assets like JuD and LeT against India or Taliban against Afghanistan.
 
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By Kanwal Sibal 23 Dec 2014

The problem for India is that Pakistan is unable to deal with domestic terrorism, which is become more lethal - as the latest incident of the brutal killing of school children in Peshawar shows.

At the same time, it is unwilling to deal with terrorism from its soil directed at India and Afghanistan, because the groups involved are considered as strategic assets.

Denial

The gut issue is that the groups nurtured by Pakistan to promote terrorist attacks against us are viewed as freedom fighters and not terrorists. If jihad is a religious obligation, then for Pakistan to treat jihadi groups as terrorist groups would be going against basic Islamic tenets.

A huge gap therefore exits in how we characterise anti-India jihadi groups in Pakistan, and how Pakistan sees them.

For us they are terrorists; for the Pakistanis they are groups fighting for Kashmir’s freedom and against Indian atrocities on their co-religionists there.

We, therefore, talk at cross purposes when we speak about cooperating with each other in combating the menace of terrorism. Pakistan tactically accepts the inclusion of terrorism in our dialogue agenda because otherwise India will not talk about Kashmir, which is Pakistan’s core issue.

Because of the enormity of the Mumbai attacks in which foreign nationals were also killed, a Pakistani was caught alive and a US informer identified the masterminds in Pakistan, the latter could no longer resort to its habitual denials and obfuscations about its responsibility.

Subsequently, Pakistan has used all possible legal and procedural tricks to delay trying those responsible for the Mumbai massacre, citing India’s own dilatory legal processes, and, more deplorably, alleging, as Nawaz Sharif’s foreign policy adviser has just done, that India has not provided enough evidence to inculpate the accused.

Pakistan has been shifting the responsibility for the delay in the trial on to India’s shoulders, when all the evidence is there and it is incumbent on Pakistani authorities to do the necessary investigation.

It clearly has no interest in getting to the bottom of the case and unveiling the complicity of its state agencies in it.

Cornered, Pakistan has been striking back by equating the Mumbai attack to the one on the Samjhauta Express and citing the delay in the Samjhauta investigation to justify that in the case of those accused of the Mumbai mayhem.

Worse, the Pakistanis now exhibit impatience with India’s insistence on playing the old and tiresome Mumbai record, and conveniently advise us to look ahead rather than remain fixated on the past.

For them, Indian accusations of Pakistani involvement in terrorism have no basis, as Pakistan is itself a victim of terrorism, and they regurgitate, irrelevantly for us, the figures of casualties suffered by its citizens and security forces to prove the country’s innocence.

Malign

India is charged with deliberately maligning Pakistan’s image internationally by our allegations. To erode any high moral ground that India may have gained in the exposure of Pakistani terrorist links with Mumbai, Pakistan harps on Indian involvement in the Baluchistan insurgency.

In a feverish bid to ensure that the two countries have parity in misdeeds, we are accused of supporting the homicidal Pakistani Taliban in cahoots with the Afghan intelligence.

Pakistan would have concluded in the last six years that while India regularly raises the Mumbai trial issue, it is not making engagement with the Pakistan contingent on progress.

If the dialogue has been interrupted in the past, it is for other reasons, such as beheadings of Indian soldiers on the LoC or the Pakistani High Commissioner meeting the Hurriyat leaders inopportunely.

The US and some others too, in joint statements with us, ask Pakistan to proceed expeditiously with the trial. But for Pakistan all this is pro-forma, with no costs imposed for recalcitrance.

President Obama has just announced a $1 billion compensation package for Pakistan, even when he is imposing severe sanctions on President Putin’s Russia, which neither gave shelter to Osama bin Laden nor supported the Afghan Taliban and the Haqqani group to cause loss of US lives.

Our reaction to the recent gruesome incident at Peshawar should be in this larger context. Even though we are the biggest victims of Pakistani terrorism, our sincere condolences to Pakistan over this horror were completely in order.

But, then, more people were killed or wounded as wantonly in Mumbai – 164 dead and 308 wounded. The dead may not have been children, but they left children behind.

Realities


Instead of any outpouring of grief in Pakistan at this horrific act, the reaction there was to deny Pakistani involvement, or that Ajmal Kasab was a Pakistani. It was even suggested by Pakistan’s Interior Minister that our own agencies may have engineered this act.

Foreign diplomats in Delhi did not participate in a candle light vigil outside the Indian Foreign Office in sympathy, with the Pakistani High Commissioner present. Unlike us, the Pakistani parliament and Pakistani schools did not observe two minutes of silence over Mumbai.

Former President Musharraf holds RAW and Afghan intelligence responsible for the Peshawar attack and advocates retaliation. Hafiz Saeed sings the same tune - as do, apparently, sections of the Pakistani media.

The effort is to shield the Pakistani Taliban from the ignominy of their act and prevent much-needed soul-searching at the national level.

The day after we go out of our way to express solidarity with our long-time tormentor, a Pakistani court orders the release of the principal accused in the Mumbai case.

There is a lesson to be learnt from all this – about Pakistan’s structural inability to erase terrorism from its soil.

But when it comes to Pakistan, we prefer the comfort of hopes over hard realities.

The writer is a former Foreign Secretary

It may be hard to accept, but Pakistan won't help India on terror | Daily Mail Online
Kashmir is the main problem and rest has just been its aftermath. By rejecting or snubbing the bilateral talks with us India is digging its own grave here not us. So that ever they did to show the condolences which were not required nor were asked by pak to help us in our effort against terrorism is now paying them dearly. This is just a sign of desperation from the indian side when their crocodile tears didnt gave them results.

So its obvious Indians are just playing rubbish and over stretching their 'power' to endorse upon others.
 
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Article full of conspiracy theories and Indian media Bs.

Is this what Indian journalism has faded into?
 
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Pakistan goverment has delayed the bail of 26/11 attacker what more help you need? Despite the fact that india is actively funding ttp.You should be thankfull with that.
proof ?
 
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Kashmir is the main problem and rest has just been its aftermath. By rejecting or snubbing the bilateral talks with us India is digging its own grave here not us. So that ever they did to show the condolences which were not required nor were asked by pak to help us in our effort against terrorism is now paying them dearly. This is just a sign of desperation from the indian side when their crocodile tears didnt gave them results.

So its obvious Indians are just playing rubbish and over stretching their 'power' to endorse upon others.

We know that your entire army along with your gov incapable to take J&K back so India stand strong on its position.

Now about harboring good terrorist within Pakistan, just like taliban turn against you become TTP soon more will follow.
 
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You can see there .Every Indian actions was just defensive.Or mere reaction comeafter that an offensive from Pakistan against us.
IA set up a TSD only as a reaction for Mumbai attack .Can you deny that?
We dont have any TSD before 26/11 attack .

Who drag us in to Afghanistan ?You should ask you about that.
Indian politiciabs dont have any long strategic vision.But they began to take reactive action only after Kandhar episode.
Any way that is offtopic.
What is Iam trying to say both that cases are just showing the reactive or defensive nature of India.



US was the one that create this monster.
For their own strategic purpose in Afghanistan against Soviet Union .And after when they completed their mission they just leave their entire action and assets in Afghanistan in return some vested interests used it against us.
Until 2001 we were forced to live with that fire.Only after 9/11 they become aware about their deeds.
I agree with you perhaps Pak leadership
didnt know about it.
But some of them in your agencies had enough info about OBL .
That is why they didnt share their concerns with your leaders.


Instead of focussing on TSD and 2008, which was tip of iceberg, The BLA surfaced once your MI got a strong foothold in Afghanistan, Was there any BLA and like minded groups in 90's or in early 2000's when there was no or little indian presence in Afghanistan ?

India does not play reactive or defensive, Whenever an opportunity present itself, both countries like to get their hands dirty
 
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Instead of focussing on TSD and 2008, which was tip of iceberg, The BLA surfaced once your MI got a strong foothold in Afghanistan, Was there any BLA and like minded groups in 90's or in early 2000's when there was no or little indian presence in Afghanistan ?

India does not play reactive or defensive, Whenever an opportunity present itself, both countries like to get their hands dirty


Then you should check the flow of unemployed Afghan Mujahid after USSR withdrawal.What was the reason and where did that start from ?.
You already agree the BLA rise only after 90's then what about Kashmir insurgency after 1989 ?
You know who started this game.And so for every action there will be an opposite reaction.
Even if there is a lot of dispute there is no such issue in Sino Indian Border.Because they didnt employ the so called asymmetric warfare in there.
 
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These articles are only meant for those who who hold idiotic ridiculous candle marches to review their psychs .

I never liked the idea of showing any kind of solidarity with pakistani army. Let their wives and children be murdered.

Mods please take note of this piece of sh!t.

@Oscar @Jungibaaz
 
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Then you should check the flow of unemployed Afghan Mujahid after USSR withdrawal.What was the reason and where did that start from ?.
You already agree the BLA rise only after 90's then what about Kashmir insurgency after 1989 ?
You know who started this game.And so for every action there will be an opposite reaction.
Even if there is a lot of dispute there is no such issue in Sino Indian Border.Because they didnt employ the so called asymmetric warfare in there.

Kashmiri insurgency would not have flared up if India hadn't made incursions in to Pakistani territory of Siachen and occupy it.

But Partial blame goes to Indian administration of Indian occupied kashmir as well. Wasn't there heavy handedness alienated the local population? IIRC, Insurgency gain melting point after Maqbool bhat hanging and there was some shooting outside which killed protesters. Whole valley turned against Indian army.

Anyways, Kashmir insurgency was payback for your incursion and occupation of Siachen.

About Sino-Indian issue, China annexed what they wanted in 62 and what they want now is a cherry on top of their original victory. Hence less appetite for asymmetric warfare combined with less tactical or strategic gains these area would yield to China

Pakistan is at position where China was in 62. Most of our water come from Kashmir and is akin to jugular vein to us. which means paramount tactical and strategic gains at stake here for Pakistan
 
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and india will goto any extend to help Pakistan, yeah i agree,,,,
 
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Kashmiri insurgency would not have flared up if India hadn't made incursions in to Pakistani territory of Siachen and occupy it.

But Partial blame goes to Indian administration of Indian occupied kashmir as well. Wasn't there heavy handedness alienated the local population? IIRC, Insurgency gain melting point after Maqbool bhat hanging and there was some shooting outside which killed protesters. Whole valley turned against Indian army.

Anyways, Kashmir insurgency was payback for your incursion and occupation of Siachen.

About Sino-Indian issue, China annexed what they wanted in 62 and what they want now is a cherry on top of their original victory. Hence less appetite for asymmetric warfare combined with less tactical or strategic gains these area would yield to China

Pakistan is at position where China was in 62. Most of our water come from Kashmir and is akin to jugular vein to us. which means paramount tactical and strategic gains at stake here for Pakistan

Wrong .Absolutely wrong.
China dont need an asymmetric Warfare.Why should they want to wage an asymmetric warefare with us ?
If they want a war their PLAN is able to do it.And FYI Chinese could nt finish their mission that is why AP is still in our hand.The thing called asymmetric warfare came in to existance .Because our enemy knows that they cant challenge Indian Armed Forces directly.But Chinese dont have any such problem

If you pointed to that then entire problem in Kashmir is due to tribal invasion in 1947 and yourleaders was behind of that reckless action.Kashmir was a disputed land .But their king didnt interested in both India and Pakistan.Then on the bases of rumour tribals unleashed terror against the Kashmiris .Then only king tequested us and we send the army.


Kashmir insurgency is died down not only because of Indian Army.But due to the atrocities Kashmiri Pandits and indulging of Afghan militants.That made things a lot easier for us .The so called freedom struggle is now the world called as Terrorism except our western neighbour.
 
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