ISRO Tests New Rocket Engine That Could Make Launches 10 Times Cheaper

[Fireurimagination]

Awesome Isro is going great guns, congrats

 

[proud_indian]

A Big congratulations to ISRO..

On the thread posting for all posters
I have tried cleaning the thread of troll post and no relevancy to the topic ones.

Pls follow the cardinal rule of " Dont quote any troll post and learn to report and better ignore such flamebaits"

It would be nice if you folks dont fall for the same trap set and destroy this thread also. So utilize this opportunity and learn some more about this topic by keeping the discussion on topic

@waz @WAJsal @mods
Kindly check for any appropriate action deemed fit.

There is another thread running here
https://defence.pk/threads/isro-tes...-could-make-launches-10-times-cheaper.446320/


It would be nice if we can collate the data only at one place and combine all things...


Regards,

there is one more here

https://defence.pk/threads/isro-suc...uristic-rocket-test-joins-select-club.446319/

 

[Nilgiri]

Yeah I guess .. the most important result of this test will be the gathering of important parameters for simulation. I am not a gas dynamics guy (I simulate flows but mostly at Mach 2). My understanding is that there is a considerable change in the fluid laws at hyper sonic speeds... The associated models need to be experimentally verified before they can be used (parameter values et al) . We can "soft" develop the engine and wait for the metallurgy to catch up.

There is a very useful effect called a shock train that aids in the compression (and mitigates direct thermal contact of the flow with the structure to some degree) which I posted in the thread I mentioned at the start of this one.

You are right there are drastic changes from the fluid stochastically at a fundamental level at these high velocity and thermal regimes from their continuum effects. There is not a proper "Reynolds" number and other such dimensional analysis for many of the regimes that have been observed so far (rather we are feeling around and getting lucky/unlucky for a lot of it and just churning out the data to try make sense of it down the road as we smoothen out the volume's glaring holes which will remain for quite some time).

The big problem is very few people have the necessary combined background to push this through drastically at a research level...because the practical use of it is very far away (and thus it doesn't attract the big bucks from industry and has to rely on govt/military teat which is a stream but not a very wide one to push things through as quick as one would think).....i.e people (like me) who could potentially do this for a career end up working for commercial companies in incrementally improving whats out there and working already in a big way (turbofans etc).

But you are right that there is stuff to be done in the meantime....when I was doing my PhD...the bulk of it was setting up the procedures/avenues using the existing theory and then hedging on which one to actually commit time and resource to. It was educated guesswork for the most part....and it would have been quite unnecessary if I had like say 10 clones of myself or a good pool of underlings to use (with enough infra) to just churn it out in a raw way over say 4 - 5 years. I would imagine ISRO is doing a lot of this right now. Its stuff that has to be done asap anyway.

Very little of the top tier research gathers enough momentum behind it....it carries significant risk given the best is also quite narrow....you have to take a gamble basically and be prepared for a dead end (or continuation/salvation to come much later in future when the topic is revisited etc...) Few people with means want to do that....we are short term thinking creatures for the most part.....but at least the free market is good at hedging...so I will always stick by it!

 

[AugenBlick]

There is a very useful effect called a shock train that aids in the compression (and mitigates direct thermal contact of the flow with the structure to some degree) which I posted in the thread I mentioned at the start of this one.

You are right there are drastic changes from the fluid stochastically at a fundamental level at these high velocity and thermal regimes from their continuum effects. There is not a proper "Reynolds" number and other such dimensional analysis for many of the regimes that have been observed so far (rather we are feeling around and getting lucky/unlucky for a lot of it and just churning out the data to try make sense of it down the road as we smoothen out the volume's glaring holes which will remain for quite some time).

The big problem is very few people have the necessary combined background to push this through drastically at a research level...because the practical use of it is very far away (and thus it doesn't attract the big bucks from industry and has to rely on govt/military teat which is a stream but not a very wide one to push things through as quick as one would think).....i.e people (like me) who could potentially do this for a career end up working for commercial companies in incrementally improving whats out there and working already in a big way (turbofans etc).

But you are right that there is stuff to be done in the meantime....when I was doing my PhD...the bulk of it was setting up the procedures/avenues using the existing theory and then hedging on which one to actually commit time and resource to. It was educated guesswork for the most part....and it would have been quite unnecessary if I had like say 10 clones of myself or a good pool of underlings to use (with enough infra) to just churn it out in a raw way over say 4 - 5 years. I would imagine ISRO is doing a lot of this right now. Its stuff that has to be done asap anyway.

Very little of the top tier research gathers enough momentum behind it....it carries significant risk given the best is also quite narrow....you have to take a gamble basically and be prepared for a dead end (or continuation/salvation to come much later in future when the topic is revisited etc...) Few people with means want to do that....we are short term thinking creatures for the most part.....but at least the free market is good at hedging...so I will always stick by it!

The problem is the HPC systems are always lacking when it comes to running the right simulations. lattice Boltzmann methods are pretty neat as they stocaistically simulate flows but they are currently employed to study multiphase flows. Simulating regular flows is hard enough with them (classic backward facing step) forget about Hypersonic.
I am just waiting for some developments in semi conductors (expected at 2023 ) when 7nm transistors will be 3D stacked, as no more process shrinks will be possible in the Si domain atleast. Hopefully we can simulate these flows better.

That or someone cracks practical Quantum Computing

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Congratulations India, i wish if someday SPARCO can collaborate with ISRO, space exploration is in human interest.
when is GSLV Mk3 launch ?

 

[Echo_419]

To be honest, I am one of those..

I did one of my summer internships at IPR (Institute for Plasma Research) working for ITER despite having an offer for paid internship abroad but the experience left much to be desired.. There was no urgency, no structure to the internship, hardly any guidance.. It is just the field - Designing a table top tokamac was so interesting that I persisted with it. One thing which was good is that there were no restrictions on timings and I had a chauffeur driven transport assigned to me.. Imagine that!!

For my final year internship, I went elsewhere..

You need to stay with us, we need people like you

 

[Nilgiri]

The problem is the HPC systems are always lacking when it comes to running the right simulations. lattice Boltzmann methods are pretty neat as they stocaistically simulate flows but they are currently employed to study multiphase flows. Simulating regular flows is hard enough with them (classic backward facing step) forget about Hypersonic.
I am just waiting for some developments in semi conductors (expected at 2023 ) when 7nm transistors will be 3D stacked, as no more process shrinks will be possible in the Si domain atleast. Hopefully we can simulate these flows better.

That or someone cracks practical Quantum Computing

Yah that is a key thing for sure, the simulation scope of the whole thing. Right now it is still quite intermeshed between sim and physical testing for the very reasons you state. There needs to be a certainbase level of raw data (and we are maybe at around the 1 - 10% threshold of collection depending on who you ask about hypersonic flows) that can then be used to make better simulation models. This is all the crazy hard work some poor bunch of sods have to do that do not get the same praise as the "launch test" that most people think is the big step ...though within ISRO I am sure there is a great appreciation for them.

It would be great if we have someone within ISRO here to clarify the size of the teams working on this....without giving away too much of course. From that I could gauge a rough idea of where India stands in the pace of scramjet and materials technology in the next decade or so.

 

[AugenBlick]

Yah that is a key thing for sure, the simulation scope of the whole thing. Right now it is still quite intermeshed between sim and physical testing for the very reasons you state. There needs to be a certainbase level of raw data (and we are maybe at around the 1 - 10% threshold of collection depending on who you ask about hypersonic flows) that can then be used to make better simulation models. This is all the crazy hard work some poor bunch of sods have to do that do not get the same praise as the "launch test" that most people think is the big step ...though within ISRO I am sure there is a great appreciation for them.

It would be great if we have someone within ISRO here to clarify the size of the teams working on this....without giving away too much of course. From that I could gauge a rough idea of where India stands in the pace of scramjet and materials technology in the next decade or so.

They do AMAs on reddit though.

 

[Spectre]

You need to stay with us, we need people like you

Nah! I got burnt out quick. I was never very good in research etc thats why didnt pursue with it and shifted to finance post graduation.

That is one of the self admittedly faults of our education and societal system - too much emphasis on making money and getting a job security. Lot of folks from my time just went sideways into marketing/finance/consulting..

The new gen seems to be better with lot of them starting their own stuff..

 

[AugenBlick]

Nah! I got burnt out quick. I was never very good in research etc thats why didnt pursue with it and shifted to finance post graduation.

That is one of the self admittedly faults of our education and societal system - too much emphasis on making money and getting a job security. Lot of folks from my time just went sideways into marketing/finance/consulting..

The new gen seems to be better with lot of them starting their own stuff..

My friend is a consultant(big 3) and lives an awesome life. Travel , dining with MDs/CEOs ... bakch*di.... can't blame em ... and 10 years later boom senior position in corporate due to superior networking.

 

[Spectre]

My friend is a consultant(big 3) and lives an awesome life. Travel , dining with MDs/CEOs ... bakch*di.... can't blame em ... and 10 years later boom senior position in corporate due to superior networking.

It gets boring fast. Most of the consultants I know in senior/mid-level position are sick of the constant travelling and pressure to score/retain clients. First 3/4 years if fun but it's not a job you want to do long term..

 

[AugenBlick]

It gets boring fast. Most of the consultants I know in senior/mid-level position are sick of the constant travelling and pressure to score/retain clients. First 3/4 years if fun but it's not a job you want to do long term..

Yup people go in with an exit strategy.... very very imp IMO.

 

[Kinetic]

Congratulations India, i wish if someday SPARCO can collaborate with ISRO, space exploration is in human interest.
when is GSLV Mk3 launch ?

In december this year.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

In december this year.

Is there any more info regarding gslv ? ( engine isp, thrust, burn time, fuel mixture.. etc) hungry for some good read
Thanks

 

[Nilgiri]

They do AMAs on reddit though.

Yah I even read a few of em. Will have to participate some time.