Israeli airstrikes on Gaza

[Falcon29]

Hamas is ready to take country with 1967 borders but not ready to give anything in return. Wow just wow.

Look, you got 1967 borders in Gaza and in return u drastically INCREASED rocket fire.

You had choice between peace and war. You chose war and now whining about some little strikes in return.

Hamas would agree with a central government deciding to agree to a two state solution. Only reason they state their stance is because Israel and pro israel apologists keep pointing at Hamas to avoid a peace treaty. And say Hamas doesn't agree to avoid talks with the PA. At the same time they deny Hamas representatives to be included. You can't have it both ways.

And no, Hamas was never given Gaza, they later were elected fair and square and the US and Israel tried to support a coup by sending massive amounts of weapons to Fatah and failed miserably.

They then held a blockade on Gaza and currently siege it which was the first declaration of war by Israel. That's hardly a choice of 'peace'.

Peace also is a diversion to what really needs to happen, which is an increased quality of life and self determination for Palestinians which the blockade prevents. It isn't just a calm from Israeli initiated violence which Israelis hardly experience anything groundbreaking during that period.

Gaza was always ours, so when you keep telling us you 'gave' us Gaza, what you really mean is Israeli military forces withdrew and withdrew the Israeli governments plans to occupy Rafah by building settlements and transferring a few thousand 'Israeli settlers whom are not Israelis nor have any rightful claim to the land besides being foreign Jews who get citizenship from israel for their Jewish identity and are called settlers.

 

[500]

Hamas would agree with a central government deciding to agree to a two state solution.

Two state solution cant happen without recognition of Israel. Hamas says he will never recognize.

And no, Hamas was never given Gaza, they later were elected fair and square and the US and Israel tried to support a coup by sending massive amounts of weapons to Fatah and failed miserably.

They then held a blockade on Gaza and currently siege it which was the first declaration of war by Israel. That's hardly a choice of 'peace'.

I remember how rocket fire started after the Israeli pullout in 2005. Hamas made a victory rally where they carried bombs and rockets. These rockets exploded killing many people. They blamed Israel and started massive rocket attacks.

Peace also is a diversion to what really needs to happen, which is an increased quality of life and self determination for Palestinians which the blockade prevents.

If Hamas accepted the Quartet demands (recognize Israel, accept peace deals and abandon violence in exchange for an international recognition as Palestinian people representative), quality of life would boost immediately.

 

[Falcon29]

Two state solution cant happen without recognition of Israel. Hamas says he will never recognize.


I remember how rocket fire started after the Israeli pullout in 2005. Hamas made a victory rally where they carried bombs and rockets. These rockets exploded killing many people. They blamed Israel and started massive rocket attacks.


If Hamas accepted the Quartet demands (recognize Israel, accept peace deals and abandon violence in exchange for an international recognition as Palestinian people representative), quality of life would boost immediately.

Okay, 500, but at the same time you're government is sending a message to the PA to disclude Hamas from talks and is not allowing their representatives.

How does this all work to you especially if there is no return to 1967 borders. No right of return, no sovereignty over their borders.

My view is that Hamas doesn't need to recognize israel. It already exists. As of now they don't need to recognize israel and neither do I think so for the future. That doesn't mean a peace deal can't be achieved. That's more of an excuse and bait tool by israel.

 

[-SINAN-]

Good comedy.

Erdogan promised to send his fleet, but chickened and instead made bollywood style movie how he defeats Israel.

Erdogan is a coward in my eyes. If we had a decent leader Like "Osman Pamukoğlu"......

But i remember you guys said often "We will never apologize". Why did you apologized ?

 

[500]

Okay, 500, but at the same time you're government is sending a message to the PA to disclude Hamas from talks and is not allowing their representatives.

How does this all work to you especially if there is no return to 1967 borders. No right of return, no sovereignty over their borders.

My view is that Hamas doesn't need to recognize israel. It already exists. As of now they don't need to recognize israel and neither do I think so for the future. That doesn't mean a peace deal can't be achieved. That's more of an excuse and bait tool by israel.

Recognition of Israel does not mean that you give up your demands towards Israel, but simply that u dont aim to destroy Israel.

This demand is not only Israel's but Quartet: UN+US+EU+Russia.

Lets say that Israel uses it only as excuse, then if Hamas accepts Quartet demands Israel wont have anymore excuses.

But i remember you guys said often "We will never apologize". Why did you apologized ?

Who said that?

 

[-SINAN-]

Who said that?

Than, let me refresh your memory;

Your PM.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/64016-wont-apologize-turkey-israel.html

Your friend.
Not going to happen, Turks are the one who should apologize[/QUOTE]"]

Not going to happen, Turks are the one who should apologize

You.

Apology demand is silliest thing made up by Erdogan so far. Maybe he should also ask to send him a music postcard with pink ponies and flowers.

^^ In Your post above, you don't say "Israel won't apologize to Turkey" but your mindset is clear.

 

[Falcon29]

Recognition of Israel does not mean that you give up your demands towards Israel, but simply that u dont aim to destroy Israel.

This demand is not only Israel's but Quartet: UN+US+EU+Russia.

Lets say that Israel uses it only as excuse, then if Hamas accepts Quartet demands Israel wont have anymore excuses.


Who said that?

Hamas isn't part of the Quartet

 

[500]

Than, let me refresh your memory;

Your PM.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/64016-wont-apologize-turkey-israel.html

Your friend.

He is not an Israeli official.

You.

^^ In Your post above, you don't say "Israel won't apologize to Turkey" but your mindset is clear.

I posted before that that I dont mind the apology. The reason why I dont mind it is because demand is silly. Next time Erdogan will send his thugs will will kick heir ***** again and then again send another "i'm sorry" postcard.

Hamas isn't part of the Quartet

Quartet represents the entire world and going against his opinion is kinda silly.

 

[Falcon29]

He is not an Israeli official.

You.


I posted before that that I dont mind the apology. The reason why I dont mind it is because demand is silly. Next time Erdogan will send his thugs will will kick heir ***** again and then again send another "i'm sorry" postcard.


Quartet represents the entire world and going against his opinion is kinda silly.

Quartet doesn't guarantee a sovereign state along 67 borders, it asks Hamas to give up everything including its right to elections, self defense, in exchange for 'envisions for a two state solution'. Which is just to dupe the Palestinians like Fatah was duped. Israel isn't trustworthy and neither is their right wing government. Whom much of their officials, ministers reject peace talks and urge more settlement construction and deny our right to exist. Which is what it's military occupation is basically doing. And that's why the EU withdrew its funds to any areas within the green line and the occupied territories.

 

[-SINAN-]

He is not an Israeli official.

When i said "you guys" i didn't only refered to Israeli Officials, but in general Israelis. I'm going to more precise for you from now on.

I posted before that that I dont mind the apology. The reason why I dont mind it is because demand is silly.

I'm just curious... what is silly with his demands. Would rather want him to declare war against Israel.

Next time Erdogan will send his thugs will will kick heir ***** again and then again send another "i'm sorry" postcard.

You are quite proud in your Commandos for killing defenseless Turkish civilians. (I know from this point you will say "But...but they have sticks and stones", I'm referring that a civilian with a stick is defenseless against a full-geared commando.)

I'm not gonna start with "We Turks are that and this", if it's gonna happen a "next time", surely the ones you will face, is not going to be defenseless.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

@Sinan

I don't think there is anything to be proud of killing 9 Turkish unharmed civilians activists, the Israelis must openly admit that their fault was intended and must compensate the families of the victims.

Otherwise, Israel will lose the only mild country to it in the ME.

 

[500]

I'm just curious... what is silly with his demands. Would rather want him to declare war against Israel.

I already explained that before.

1) When you are interested in cooperation with country, you secretly make a deal about normalization.
2) When you are interested in real confrontation you make real sanctions, like sever all economic ties.
3) But Erdogan was interested only in bitching and scandals, thats why he started making silly

open demands and threats.

You are quite proud in your Commandos for killing defenseless Turkish civilians. (I know from this point you will say "But...but they have sticks and stones", I'm referring that a civilian with a stick is defenseless against a full-geared commando.)

I think that those who attack armed commandos with iron clubs and knives are Darwin award retards. Besides most of them expressed wish to became shahids, so wish got granted.

I'm not gonna start with "We Turks are that and this", if it's gonna happen a "next time", surely the ones you will face, is not going to be defenseless.

We are preparing for the next time:

Quartet doesn't guarantee a sovereign state along 67 borders, it asks Hamas to give up everything including its right to elections, self defense, in exchange for 'envisions for a two state solution'. Which is just to dupe the Palestinians like Fatah was duped. Israel isn't trustworthy and neither is their right wing government. Whom much of their officials, ministers reject peace talks and urge more settlement construction and deny our right to exist. Which is what it's military occupation is basically doing. And that's why the EU withdrew its funds to any areas within the green line and the occupied territories.

If Hamas accepts Quartet demands it will became a legitimate party all over the world. It does not give up anything beside silly slogan of Israel's destruction.

 

[-SINAN-]

I already explained that before.

1) When you are interested in cooperation with country, you secretly make a deal about normalization.
2) When you are interested in real confrontation you make real sanctions, like sever all economic ties.
3) But Erdogan was interested only in bitching and scandals, thats why he started making silly

open demands and threats.

So you say, Erdogan should have sever all economic ties, instead of his demands..... I think, him doing what you have suggested, won't benefit Erdogan.

And severing all economic ties, won't benefit Turkey and won't hamper Israel but his bitching, irritates Israeli government more. (Like his "Siyonizm is a crime against humaniy" speech.)

I think that those who attack armed commandos with iron clubs and knives are Darwin award retards. Besides most of them expressed wish to became shahids, so wish got granted.

They are retards indeed. But shooting them while they are trying to escape..... (bullets wounds from back of their bodies) Anyway if it suits you, take pride from their actions.

We are preparing for the next time:

Mate, you used those against civilians, you should use something better against soldiers.

 

[500]

So you say, Erdogan should have sever all economic ties, instead of his demands..... I think, him doing what you have suggested, won't benefit Erdogan.

And severing all economic ties, won't benefit Turkey and won't hamper Israel but his bitching, irritates Israeli government more. (Like his "Siyonizm is a crime against humaniy" speech.)

I say that Erdogans wanted scandals and bitching and thats what he did.

They are retards indeed. But shooting them while they are trying to escape..... (bullets wounds from back of their bodies) Anyway if it suits you, take pride from their actions.

Not all were in back and it proves nothing. For example if u see someone attacking ur friend while u are behind himu will shoot in back.

Mate, you used those against civilians, you should use something better against soldiers.

There will be no any soldiers and not civilians either.

 

[-SINAN-]

I say that Erdogans wanted scandals and bitching and thats what he did.

While we became close with Arab states, bilateral trade boomed and many relations (military, economic, strategic, etc...)

Not all were in back and it proves nothing. For example if u see someone attacking ur friend while u are behind himu will shoot in back.

And bullet passes through the attacker and ends up in my friend, brilliant idea. You need to shot from side, not from behind.

There will be no any soldiers and not civilians either.

If you are trying to say there will be no more conflicts, i would agree on that...That said it's impossible to predict while Erdogan still on power.