Israeli admits he censored material showing attacks on civilians in Gaza

[RFS_Br]

Israeli reporter admits suppressing images of ‘piles of bodies of civilians’ when Israel went ‘crazy’ in Gaza

A staggering, doom-laden interview published by Haaretz with an Israeli television journalist suggests that the full truth of what happened in Gaza 4 years ago was suppressed not only when the United States and its author stomped the Goldstone Report-- which alleged deliberate targeting of civilians-- but suppressed by Israelis too. Shlomi Eldar was Gaza correspondent for Channel 10 news. Here is what he saw and could not live with but put in "an envelope" and has never published, awaiting a commission of inquiry that never has come:

"I came into possession of shocking material. The kind of material that sends you to a psychologist. I have never shown it. Children who were shot. Piles of bodies of civilians... I came into possession of material about very grim events relating to the idea that Israel was deliberately 'going crazy.' Testimonies, images and much more. So many people were killed there."

Reflect that this was a slaughter initiated by a centrist government now perceived as center-left in Israeli politics. Reflect that a story that Eldar did report, a documentary called "Precious Life" about Israelis working to treat a Gaza infant born with an immune deficiency, was written up at great length by Tom Friedman in the New York Times, with a lecture to his readers that if they were going to criticize Israel, they should watch this video about the "real Middle East" so as to be "constructive."

Haaretz: "Shlomi Eldar reflects on the live television report that profoundly changed the way he sees the Israeli-Palestinian conflict." (Thanks to Annie Robbins.) Excerpt:

[Click on link above to read the full story. -- RFS]

 

[500]

There were indeed piles of bodies. Of terrorists:

Hamas admits 600-700 of its men were killed in Cast Lead - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

 

[RFS_Br]

There were indeed piles of bodies. Of terrorists:

Hamas admits 600-700 of its men were killed in Cast Lead - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

That many Hamas members died in the war, doesn't mean no civilians did, dummy. Operation Cast Lead killed about double the number you mention. Several organizations, including Israeli ones, estimate that half the victims were civilians, and a third of the total were innocent kids. And if we are to believe witnesses of the war -- including the Israeli reporter discussed above -- many such deaths were intentional. Your army is a terrorist force.

 

[500]

That many Hamas members died in the war, doesn't mean no civilians did, dummy. Operation Cast Lead killed about double the number you mention. Several organizations, including Israeli ones, estimate that half the victims were civilians, and a third of the total were innocent kids. And if we are to believe witnesses of the war -- including the Israeli reporter discussed above -- many such deaths were intentional. Your army is a terrorist force.

Many of called civilians and kids were fighters:

Gaza War Civilians - YouTube

In addition Hamas recruited and sent youngsters to slaughter just like Hitler did in end of the war:

Mr Cremonesi later told the BBC the doctor had told him the dead also included youngsters aged 17 to 23, described by the doctor as "Hamas recruits who were literally sent to be massacred"

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Counting casualties of Gaza's war

There weer some real killed civilians, but thats happened because Hamas uses them as human shields:

 

[RFS_Br]

Many of called civilians and kids were fighters:

How much is many? BetSelem had a break down of Palestinian casualties, produced after investigation, and it still calculated that about half of the casualties were civilians and non-combatants. And I don't even know if they counted police officers, who are considered civilians under international law, along with other civilians in the group. I'm under the impression they did not, and that's why the share of civilians they found in their count was inferior to that of the PCHR.

And please, stop littering the thread with your BS images and videos. Everyone can cherrypick images to support their case; they alone prove nothing; facts do. By flooding the threads with such images, you're just making the thread visualization harder.

In addition Hamas recruited and sent youngsters to slaughter just like Hitler did in end of the war:

Mr Cremonesi later told the BBC the doctor had told him the dead also included youngsters aged 17 to 23 . . ."

Is that how you define children?

There weer some real killed civilians, but thats happened because Hamas uses them as human shields:

Funny, the UN commission that investigated those crimes found only Israeli instances of human shield use. Some of them appeared prominently on the press when the guilty were trialed in Israeli courts and, predictably, received no real punishment.

One example:

Two Israeli soldiers who used a nine-year-old Palestinian boy as a human shield were given suspended sentences and demoted after being convicted of "inappropriate conduct".
. . .
The sentence – described as "light" by Army Radio – was criticised by the boy's mother, Alaf Rabah. "This is a scandal that just encourages others to continue in this behaviour which sends a negative message to both the victims and the soldiers," she told the Ynet website. The family is considering a civil action.

During the war, Israel targeted many civilian infrastructures, including hospitals and ambulances, under the guise that they were harboring militants or concealing weaponry. Israel hurls such accusations all the time to excuse targeting of civilians (which Israeli generals recognize is intentional intentional when speaking to the Israeli press) -- yet such accusations seldom, if ever, corroborated by independent investigators.

Even Israeli organizations admitted that. Magen David Adom, the Israeli emergency services, testified to the UN that it was an IDF lie that the ambulances Israel attacked were transporting weapons.

Israeli TV channels have also confessed that IDF allegations to justify its attacks on Gazan schools -- that Hamas fighters were launching rockets from them -- are false.

The thread even quotes an Israeli reporter as saying that he found evidence that Israeli killing was indiscriminate. What will it take for you to drop your propaganda?

 

[500]

How much is many?

More than enough to trash that list.

And I don't even know if they counted police officers, who are considered civilians under international law

They are not regular policemen, but Hamas policemen.

And please, stop littering the thread with your BS images and videos. Everyone can cherrypick images to support their case; they alone prove nothing; facts do. By flooding the threads with such images, you're just making the thread visualization harder.

I see your logic: you should not believe your eyes, but should believe to Arabs human right organizations and leftist Hamas sympathizers.

Hamas fieres rockets from dense populated areas. Thats FACT. And thats double crime:

1) They fire at Israeli civilians.
2) They use own civilians as human shields.

Is that how you define children?

17 years old are considered children. There are younger too. I personally seen two 14-15 years old kids sent to attack Netzarim settlement.

Funny, the UN commission that investigated those crimes found only Israeli instances of human shield use.

This is UN human rights commission - a joke organization, formely headed by Libya.

If you go to google image search and type "Gaza rocket" you will get plenty of examples of Hamas using human shield tactics. So how its possible that commission that spent many months and huge amount of money could not find what every kid can find in 10 seconds? - Conclusion: ether this comission are complete imbeciles, or they are hypocrite liars.

Israeli TV channels have also confessed that IDF allegations to justify its attacks on Gazan schools -- that Hamas fighters were launching rockets from them -- are false.

Thats what electronic intifada site says. Here what respectful sources say:

Witnesses, including Hanan Abu Khajib, 39, said that Hamas fired just outside the school compound, probably from the secluded courtyard of a house across the street, 25 yards from the school. Israeli return fire, some minutes later, also landed outside the school, along the southwest wall, killing two Hamas fighters. Nearly all the casualties were in the street outside the compound, with only three people wounded from shrapnel inside the walls.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/17/world/middleeast/17israel.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

Two residents of the area who spoke by telephone said they saw a small group of militants firing mortar rounds from a street near the school, where 350 people had gathered to get away from the shelling. They spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090106/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians


A Gaza resident contacted by TIME said there is a citrus grove not far from the school. "Most likely, the militants fired from there," said the resident, who requested anonymity.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870087,00.html

Local residents in the street told me that militants had been firing rockets - as the IDF claimed - and having been targeted in retaliatory fire by the IDF, they ran down the street past the school.

Why UN 'reversal' over Gaza school should be treated with caution - Channel 4 News

 

[RFS_Br]

More than enough to trash that list.

I repeat: "How much is many?" I'm not going to trust some internet troll on this. If you don't have exact numbers, then you don't know what are you talking about. You're making propaganda and I don't have to accept that.

They are not regular policemen, but Hamas policemen.

"[T]here is no such thing as a Hamas school, or a Hamas police station or a Hamas ministry. These are adjectives are used by Israel to justify the targeting of these sites. Many if not most who work in these institutions are not members of the Hamas organization."

Human Rights Watch has also reiterated, after the latest of Israel's assaults on Gaza, that police officers, no matter their nationality, are civilians.

I see your logic: you should not believe your eyes

Aw, I believe my eyes. It's your cherrypicked images what I don't believe. The IDF has produced posters portraying Bahraini protesters with molotov cocktails as Palestinians. It has appropriated Iraq War images to suggest human shield use on the part of Gazan groups. So why should I believe your images? How will I know they are portraying Gaza? or if they do, that they relate to events you describe? that the areas weren't evacuated when the rockets were launched?

but should believe to Arabs human right organizations and leftist Hamas sympathizers.

It isn't Arab only; it's Israeli and international as well.

Hamas fieres rockets from dense populated areas. Thats FACT.

Writing words in capital letters won't improve your persuasiveness.

1) They fire at Israeli civilians.

Like the IDF fires on Palestinian civilians.

2) They use own civilians as human shields.

They don't; the IDF does. And this, even former IDF soldiers have admitted:

17 years old are considered children. There are younger too. I personally seen two 14-15 years old kids sent to attack Netzarim settlement.

17 year olds aren't children. And spare me your rumours. No one has any way to verify them, and no one is obliged to believe them.

This is UN human rights commission - a joke organization, formely headed by Libya.

The commission sent in to investigate war crimes didn't include a single Libyan, or anyone on Gadaffi's paycheck. They were an independent group. And here are the countries countries (in green) who voted to pass the report that commission produced. They are all very different from one another in ethnicity, religion and political form:

If you go to google image search and type "Gaza rocket" you will get plenty of examples of Hamas using human shield tactics.

Are you serious? Is that really how you do your research? I can adduce here the statements of many different groups, all distinguished in the area of human rights investigations, some of which are even Israeli -- and you want me to believe you because you did this Google research?

Thats what electronic intifada site says. Here what respectful sources say:

The Electronic Intifada is only reporting on Channel 4's own statements. Even UN agencies themselves have refuted the lies the IDF spreads to justify its attacks on civilian infrastructure.

They spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal.

Why should I believe them?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090106/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

Dead link.

A Gaza resident contacted by TIME said there is a citrus grove not far from the school. "Most likely, the militants fired from there," said the resident, who requested anonymity.

See above.

Local residents in the street told me that militants had been firing rockets - as the IDF claimed - and having been targeted in retaliatory fire by the IDF, they ran down the street past the school.

So you want me to not believe Arab human rights NGOs, but Israeli TV channels -- even when such channels are on record as admitting some time later that use of schools as shields didn't happen, as stated also by the UN?

 

[500]

I repeat: "How much is many?" I'm not going to trust some internet troll on this. If you don't have exact numbers, then you don't know what are you talking about. You're making propaganda and I don't have to accept that.

I gave you a video with examples. These are just some whos photos were online yet considered as civilians. This list is a poor joke.

"[T]here is no such thing as a Hamas school, or a Hamas police station or a Hamas ministry. These are adjectives are used by Israel to justify the targeting of these sites. Many if not most who work in these institutions are not members of the Hamas organization."

There is such thing as Hamas policemen.

Aw, I believe my eyes. It's your cherrypicked images what I don't believe. The IDF has produced posters portraying Bahraini protesters with molotov cocktails as Palestinians. It has appropriated Iraq War images to suggest human shield use on the part of Gazan groups. So why should I believe your images? How will I know they are portraying Gaza? or if they do, that they relate to events you describe? that the areas weren't evacuated when the rockets were launched?

You can easily get all data you need on Getty images site for example.

For example lets find some pics from Cast Lead operation

Caption: A picture shows a rocket being launched from the northern Gaza Strip towards Israel on January 14, 2009 as seen from the Israel-Gaza border. Israel bombed smuggling tunnels and battled fighters in Gaza streets today as UN chief Ban Ki-moon arrived in the region seeking to end the war on Hamas that has killed nearly 1,000 people. AFP PHOTO/JACK GUEZ (Photo credit should read JACK GUEZ/AFP/Getty Images)
Date created: 14 Jan 2009

Picture Shows A Rocket Being Launched From The Northern

Caption: A picture shows a rocket being launched from the Gaza Strip towards southern Israel on January 14, 2009 as seen from the Israel-Gaza border. Israel bombed smuggling tunnels and battled fighters in Gaza streets today as UN chief Ban Ki-moon arrived in the region seeking to end the war on Hamas that has killed nearly 1,000 people. AFP PHOTO/JACK GUEZ (Photo credit should read JACK GUEZ/AFP/Getty Images)
Date created: 14 Jan 2009

Picture Shows A Rocket Being Launched From The Gaza Strip

You see, I found two solid evidence of Palestinian terrorists using human shields in one minute. But so called commission could not find a single evidence after months of "investigation". Conclusion: this commission are ether imbeciles or hypocrite liars.

It isn't Arab only; it's Israeli and international as well.

There is no any way to verify Arab claims. For example in Jenin they claimed 500-600 killed. Only after Jenin was captured we could find out the truth (52 killed).

Like the IDF fires on Palestinian civilians.

Pathetic lie. IDF does not use indiscriminate fire.

They don't; the IDF does. And this, even former IDF soldiers have admitted:

They did, I just provided you solid proof. You dont have any proof of IDF using human shields beside some stupid rumors

17 year olds aren't children.

They are. Until 18.

And spare me your rumours. No one has any way to verify them, and no one is obliged to believe them.

Its what I seen with my own eyes. And I dont ask you to believe.

The commission sent in to investigate war crimes didn't include a single Libyan, or anyone on Gadaffi's paycheck. They were an independent group. And here are the countries countries (in green) who voted to pass the report that commission produced. They are all very different from one another in ethnicity, religion and political form:

This commission included biased clowns. And I just proved that they are biased clowns. They could not find evidence of Palestinian human shield in months, while I found it in 1 minute.

Are you serious?

* Your claim is based on Palestinian propaganda site (Electronic Intifada).
* My claim is based on Palestinian witnesses from various serious news agencies (New York Times, AP, Times).

Which is more truthful?

P.S. here the same article from "dead link"

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/562306--france-egypt-propose-gaza-truce-plan
http://www.boston.com/news/world/mi...aelis_hit_school_in_gaza_30_killed/?page=full

But of course u will say again "why shoul i believe them"

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

There were indeed piles of bodies. Of terrorists:

Hamas admits 600-700 of its men were killed in Cast Lead - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

I thought human beings consider the ones who defend their home land from invaders freedom fighters?
It can't be more insolent and rude when you call the native people of Palestine who defend themselves terrorists while Israel is based on terrorism.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

There were indeed piles of bodies. Of terrorists:

Hamas admits 600-700 of its men were killed in Cast Lead - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

Correction: freedom fighters (killed by Zionist terrorist occupiers). Please be careful next time not to confuse such obvious facts ok?

 

[sarthak]

I thought human beings consider the ones who defend their home land from invaders freedom fighters?
It can't be more insolent and rude when you call the native people of Palestine who defend themselves terrorists while Israel is based on terrorism.

Firing rockets into a country and blowing up a public bus is not self defense you dummy. It's terrorism in every sense. In fact I would say Israel's action was extremely muted. Suppose your country Jordan was situated near India and your rebels fired rockets into India , the least I would expect our air force to do is Napalm the whole area or send in a few dozen cruise missiles to flatten the city. Firing rockets into a country is more than terrorism , it's an act of war.