Israel’s Antimissile System Attracts Potential Buyers

[sancho]

And that precisely is the intended use, to protect high value targets. India will have a layered air defence system, with different systems for different uses. So this one will be for point air defence of the kind of targets you said, so why isn't it suited for India, although in a different way from how it is useful for Israel?

Because it is more effective in a dense are, where many targets needs to be protected at once. Our bases are in distance from each other and would need a more cost-effective point defence system, that we can procure in higher numbers. System like Skyshield, or Phalanx, possibly even Rafaels Typhoon gun systems might be more suitable.

 

[Mitro]

First of all, Akash has a different purpose than Iron dome and beeing indigenous is not an argument!
But I agree that we don't need a missile system to intercept rocket and mortars, when a gun system for similar purpose could be much more cost-effective.
Iron Dome is defenitely a very good system, but more suited for Israel, where bigger cities with several thousands of people must be protected in a smaller area. For India this is not the case, we have a large border region with and can use such systems only in smaller numbers to protect high value targets, like forwarded air force or army bases. Not to mention that rockets and mortars are the least problems that we have, which makes capable SAM systems more important.

We have S300 for high value asset and now we have akash and we are working on AAD and PAD for Ballistic missile ,if this iron dome can protect our Tank and troops from MBRL then we should go for it otherwise its useless to us.

 

[sancho]

Interesting discussion. Entirely focused on Pakistan. Yet, the common understanding you get is that 'India's way passed the Pakistani threat and it's focus is China and other big countries now. Pakistan isn't even in the picture'. Well...it doesn't seem here so. Seems like the whole defense / offense is Pakistan focused.

That's because you didn't understand what kind of threat this weapon system should counter here. It's not China that has fielded numerous artillery, mortar or similar systems opposite of Indian borders and has them in close distance to our forwarded bases, just like we have as well.
The case with China is different, because their long range missile systems and airbases in Tibet at our problem and that's why we today seek more ways to counter that threat, instead of countering the threat from Pakistan.

We have S300 for high value asset and now we have akash

I've already told you that these systems have very different purposes than Iron dome, it's silly to believe we would use such SAMs agains artillery, mortar or rockets, not to mention that they are costly too and that's what you criticises at Iron Dome as well. So please don't compare apples with oranges here!

 

[janon]

We have S300 for high value asset and now we have akash and we are working on AAD and PAD for Ballistic missile ,if this iron dome can protect our Tank and troops from MBRL then we should go for it otherwise its useless to us.

First off we don't have S-300, and even if we did, it is for long range interception, and systems like iron dome are short range ones, as I said before. We need different kinds of missile systems for different kinds of protection (Point air defence, area defence etc), and from different ranged threats.

 

[janon]

Interesting discussion. Entirely focused on Pakistan. Yet, the common understanding you get is that 'India's way passed the Pakistani threat and it's focus is China and other big countries now. Pakistan isn't even in the picture'. Well...it doesn't seem here so. Seems like the whole defense / offense is Pakistan focused.

This particular weapon system will be for Pakistan based threats, hence the focus of the discussion is on pak.

Pakistan is not a threat to us in the sense that it can't win a war against us or capture any of our territory without us capturing more of theirs. But that doesn't mean that we are immune to every single bullet they fire, and we will never be. But with sufficient number of such systems, we can be as immune from their weapons as it is within our reach to be.

Hence the need for capability upgradation on the Pakistani front too, apart from the massive upgradation going on on the Chinese front.

 

[Mitro]

Do you think that rocket launcher will make u immune to bullets?


Iron Dome can guide your artillery against sources of fire.

offcourse its going to burn the source .
and for artillery tracking we can buy Counter Rocket, Artillery, and Mortar (C-RAM)

OR

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/wsh2012/220.pdf

 

[Mitro]

I've already told you that these systems have very different purposes than Iron dome, it's silly to believe we would use such SAMs agains artillery, mortar or rockets, not to mention that they are costly too and that's what you criticises at Iron Dome as well. So please don't compare apples with oranges here!

Read my post again i said high value asset not for artillery,mortar or rocket

 

[janon]

Read my post again i said high value asset not for artillery,mortar or rocket

You are getting a bit confused here. He meant protection OF high value assets FROM artillery, mortar or rocket, which only iron dome (or other systems he mentioned) can do. S-300 can't protect high value targets from mortar, rockets or artillery, they can only intercept aircrafts and large missiles. They are completely different kinds of weapons, for defence FROM different kinds of threats.

 

[Desi Guy]

Do you think that rocket launcher will make u immune to bullets?


Iron Dome can guide your artillery against sources of fire.

He is not an Indian by the way . He is someone who is ashamed of his Green Flag. Ignore him

 

[Mitro]

You are getting a bit confused here. He meant protection of high value assets FROM artillery, mortar or rocket, which only iron dome (or other systems he mentioned) can do. S-300 can't protect high value targets from mortar, rockets or artillery, they can only intercept aircrafts and large missiles. They are completely different kinds of weapons, for defence FROM different kinds of threats.

I am not i said for high value asset like airbase,nuclear reactor,oil and industries we have s300 and akash .
so why we waste money for iron dome we only have to worry about babur,raad,Cm-400 and ballistic missile ,artillery,mortar is last in my mind to worry about.

He is not an Indian by the way . He is someone who is ashamed of his Green Flag. Ignore him

Oh i c so if you dont certify me i am not indian you must be shame of what ever you are not me .

 

[500]

offcourse its going to burn the source .

In order to burn the source u need to find the source.

and for artillery tracking we can buy Counter Rocket, Artillery, and Mortar (C-RAM)

OR

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/wsh2012/220.pdf

Its range is only 10 km. How do u want to find a source of rocket that is fired from 60 km?

Can you compare it with this?

http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/9/38029.pdf

Weapon location - 100 km. By the way, Iron Dome's radar can be used for air surveillance as well. It can detect planes from 470 km.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Iron dome will not be effective against an adversary like Pakistan army. Iron dome is designed to counter threats of asymmetrical warfare from the kind of adversaries like Hamas who don't have the capacity or resources to carry out a large scale attack, which can saturate the Iron dome batteries. Hamas only fired close to 100 rockets over the span of the recent conflict.

 

[500]

Iron dome will not be effective against an adversary like Pakistan army. Iron dome is designed to counter threats of asymmetrical warfare from the kind of adversaries like Hamas who don't have the capacity or resources to carry out a large scale attack, which can saturate the Iron dome batteries. Hamas only fired close to 100 rockets over the span of the recent conflict.

Hamas fired 1500 rockets, 421 were intercepted, 58 landed in populated areas, rest in open areas and in Gaza itself.

How many Nasr rockets has Pakistan?

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Hamas fired 1500 rockets, 421 were intercepted, 58 landed in populated areas, rest in open areas and in Gaza itself.

How many Nasr rockets has Pakistan?

But not all were fired at the same time, but over the span of the recent conflict (1 week ?). A battery of 10-20 MBRL like Smerch can fire 120-240 guided rockets (hamas uses unsophisticated rockets, pipe rockets) at one go, not counting other artillery sources. btw Nasr is a battlefield range ballistic missile not a rocket.

 

[500]

But not all were fired at the same time, but over the span of the recent conflict (1 week ?). A battery of 10-20 MBRL like Smerch can fire 120-240 guided rockets (hamas uses unsophisticated rockets, pipe rockets) at one go

Iron Dome can intercept only those rockets that will be directed at critical installations. Locate Smerch battery and destroy it at one go.

Hamas uses modern WS-1E (Iranian copy) and Fajr-5 rockets, not "pipe rockets".

btw Nasr is a battlefield range ballistic missile not a rocket.

Iron Dome can intercept it.