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Israel ready to launch a military offensive against Iran

I rather doubt that you'd likely negotiate with any government, least of all a neighboring government who's ruling party's charter is as ignoble as HAMAS and calls for your destruction. There'd be little point and that's exactly the case here.

There'll be no peace or settlement with HAMAS in power. Count me with that senior U.S.A.F. officer and I'm neither a GED nor washout. It's the lucid position of a rationally thinking human that can assess a threat to his/her existence that reaches these conclusions about HAMAS.

Until HAMAS renounces it's charter or falls from power there's not one iota of a chance for peace with Israel.

The Hamsa were voted in power. They did not capture power by force. If one goes by the definition of democracy then they are the legitimate rulers of Palestine till they are defeated in elections. They were voted in by the people.

Why do you have problem with that or your definition of democracy varies from country to country.
 
With due respect to you and your belief:
First it has never been said Hamas has a poor social position. In fact in Gaza its social programs have been impeccable compared to Fatah.

The big issue with Hamas is it charter that requires the obliteration of Israel.
Now if for some fate of someone’s God Hamas happened to remove this from their charter than you might find things settle a lot more.

Do not expect the world as a whole to accept, voted in or not a group/political party/government that has that as part of their stated platform.

Sorry but Israel is there its not going away and Hamas and the Palestinians need to realise this. I would also state that it is high time that Israel recognised that it can not expect people to have a state next door where Israel has decide to have lots of little Israel settlements which are not part of the neighbouring state. This is a case where neither side can ‘have its cake and eat it’ as the saying goes. Its give and take on BOTH sides.

The discussion presented about this would be more appropriate if such an approach was taken than pure black and white meaningless argument. It is about as entrenched and narrow minded as the two combatants that are being discussed.
 
Actually I though by some mistaken reading this thread was about:
“Israel ready to launch a military offensive against Iran”

Now as the original article quoted:
The world cannot afford to live with a nuclear Iran
And I would add as did the article
The world cannot afford to live with a nuclear Israel

Both are as mentally unstable as each other so its not safe for anyone.

Firstly Israel can at best launch an air attack. Even this will have problems as it must fly across sovereign air space of other countries. Depending on the route these cover:
Jordan
Syria
Iraq
Saudi Arabia
Possibly
Kuwait
Turkey

Note while the US is still in Iraq there will be no permission for Israel to fly over that nation.

So somewhere along the way Iran will get the knowledge something is coming. Besides to fly over these nations without permission may result in a bigger problem that Israel is able to undertake.

Next Israel is not in a position to deploy any significant ground forces to deal with missed targets so a pure bombing run may be a waste.
There will be no support from other Arab nations. It does not matter that they may not like Iran having nuclear abilities either bombs or just power generation, they will not support an attack on Iran.

America will not do it as it is much better to sabre rattle and safer especially since they are still dealing with Afghanistan and Iraq.




can we get back on topic ??
 
Stop dragging up old issues. WWII was before your time and you have no real understanding of the various feelings. Besides why don’t you even consider the fire bombing in Europe and England. That was just as horrific.

Forget dragging up Vietnam, you were not even there. So you can but read books that tend to stilt issues depending on the bias of the author.

This why we have this kind of problem in Palestine

No you have these problems in Iran, Israel, Pakistan, India, Palestinians, and so on for nothing more simpler than pure hate.
Hate grows and breads. It causes distrust and generates pain and suffering on innocent people.

Try to learn to get rid of the hate first. Many things thereafter will vanish.

It seems someone just hit the nail. But anyways Hate isn't just bread one sided, just because Israelis have the means and western support plus the military hardware and that puts them in a position to dictate terms, does not mean whatever they say become automatically correct and others follow with their heads down and not a word out of their freaking mouths or else.
As for not mentioning history or not being there like you said, well one doesn't have to be in the past to understand things, time machine hasn't been invented yet otherwise most of us might even decide to have a look in person, and that is why history as a subject was there to educate the modern world about what happened in the past and how did it change the modern world. So every rite to drag old issues out in reference to the debate going on.
 
"No people shall preside over their own destruction and the Jews will be the first to do so because we have seen this repeatedly in history and will repeat itself in the future when an earth quake hits Israel making all the Israelis run like headless chicken away from Palestine INSHALLAH !
Muslim on the other hand will never happen to them as they are on the true path."


Wipe your drool. Your feverish ranting has left you an appearance that's rather a mess of sorts. Hopefully it's God's will that you recover your composure...

The only legitimate complaint you have is the poor quality of your rocketeers. Thousands of missiles launched into the great unknown with no clue nor care where they land. Any people who'd elect such an entity deserve to have full and unmitigated war made upon them. HAMAS charter is clear. Their intent and objectives for Israel are clear. They remain committed to their charter.

Simple enough. There's no compromise here and so there should be war to resolve the matter. Perhaps Lebanon and Syria too. I suspect Egypt and Jordan would sit it out and be smart to do so.

Iran, Syria, and Israel have unfinished business and until that agenda is cleared in some form or fashion matters will not likely change one iota.

Thanks for your interesting thoughts, arsenal 6.:agree:
 
"Next Israel is not in a position to deploy any significant ground forces to deal with missed targets so a pure bombing run may be a waste."

Assuming dispersion, redundant operations, dummy sites, benefits from N. Korean and others engineering and facilities hardening projects, the objective of even degrading the Iranian nuclear network is daunting.

It requires a sustained air campaign augmented by marine and naval activity. It is not possible to attack just the nuclear facilities, however numerous and complex in their dispersals as an isolated target package. An air campaign must be more comprehensive in it's target list and both lethal in power and possessing endurance.

Preconditions include the following-

1.) Continuous neutralization of al Quds naval capability and associated Iranian naval forces and facilities.

2.) Seizure of Hormuz islands.

3.) Destruction of all identified al Quds/IRGC C3I facilities.

4.) Destruction of all known Iranian Air Force facilities and identified aircraft.

5.) Neutralization of Iranian IADS systems and, in particular, S-300/400 sites.

6.) The maintenance of air supremacy (yes, I understand the term's implications) and open ingress/egress corridors for an indefinite period of up to 60-90 days.

Not all targets would likely be vulnerable to direct attack. Where not possible, it's conceivable that such facilities may be attacked indirectly through SOF or the destruction of ancillary targets which support the operations of such facilities- electrical grids, telephone exchanges, and even water purification/sewage systems.

All this requires far more than what Israel can achieve by itself. What can it achieve on it's own? A one shot raid of some significance but short of a "million dollar" bullet that achieves a strategically lucky hit, no single raid will significantly degrade Iran's nuclear ambitions.

At what cost to Israel and it's allies? Too much for present. Open warfare again in Gaza, Lebanon, and U.S. cantonments in Iraq and, worse, elsewhere within the region less prepared than combat brigades of U.S. infantry. I truly don't worry about Iraq as much as I do U.S. facilities in Kuwait and the G.C.C. states as well as global U.S./Israeli diplomatic targets.

So corridors and tankers likely wouldn't be made available. "Hurt me once-shame on you. Hurt me twice-shame on me" comes to play for arab states like Jordan and Saudi Arabia. What do I mean? They'll turn a blind eye once but then their radars will be up and their nat'l air defenses ready to fight.

No. American must be on board in a variety of capacities to achieve anything meaningful and, even then, it's questionable to what degrees of success and, again, at what cost elsewhere.

Others have argued about containment WRT Iraq. They'll likely have a chance to prove their point here. They'll fail. Iran will have a bomb and it'll do one of two things- 1.) compel a permanent and significant U.S. regional military presence or, worse 2.) a regional nuclear arms race involving S.A. and Egypt. That's almost a given.

Finally, my grossly wild speculation is that the announcement of an Iranian nuclear weapons capability will double the price of oil in a day.
 
It seems someone just hit the nail. But anyways Hate isn't just bread one sided, just because Israelis have the means and western support plus the military hardware and that puts them in a position to dictate terms, does not mean whatever they say become automatically correct and others follow with their heads down and not a word out of their freaking mouths or else.
As for not mentioning history or not being there like you said, well one doesn't have to be in the past to understand things, time machine hasn't been invented yet otherwise most of us might even decide to have a look in person, and that is why history as a subject was there to educate the modern world about what happened in the past and how did it change the modern world. So every rite to drag old issues out in reference to the debate going on.

Firstly get something correct.
I never said hate was one sided. Look at the list I put. Most have a hatred of someone else at least if not several.

I never raised the issue about Israel and western backing and what they say goes.
I said and have always stated its about time Israel pulled out of West Bank and Gaza and let the Palestinian get on making a state. In fact I suggest Israel does some serious nation building there and within itself.
I also state that it is about time if Hamas really wants to govern a state it has to drop the garbage and baggage about obliterating Israel. That is no way to stat making a world recognised government or nation. It is pure kindergarten behaviour.

Now you comments re history. History is only good if you bother to provide a balance to your argument. Which is something that so called bit of history did not bother to do as it no doubt was too difficult to think.
What I said about history it must be balanced to be worth using. Failing that the argument goes don the drain, where it belongs.

Lets us start here:
And how about Bush and Blair for the illegal war of Iraq and the torture of captivities outside the Geneva convention

Garbage. There are not POWs as there is no formal war. Hence they do not have the right under the Geneva Convention. QED.

WWII: though it seems the poster got a bit confused between WWII and Vietnam.
dropping two atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki

I see this seems to be the only bit of history the poster seems to have stuck in its head.
How about a bit more history and lack of the Geneva Convention with the treatment of allied POW by the Japanese on the Burma Thailand railway?
Let us not also forget Changi Prison and the atrocities inflected on the then Indian soldier by the Japanese. You were part of India then. But I suppose that was all OK and no problem?

But this was not brought up, why?

Also on the topic of history let’s start on the issue of the atrocities the Japanese military inflected on the local natives in PNG.
There are documented cases of the Japanese butchering natives and their women for no reason, slicing of the women’s breasts and mutilating genitals while they were alive, using POWs as bonnet practice while a live, tying them to trees with barb wire and then bonneting each limb first before beheading them.

Add to the whole thing I note that NO mention was made of the Russian atrocities on Germans, of the deplorable fire bombings of Germany and London and the list can go on.....

In Vietnam history I see no mention of the VC butchering villagers because they helped the SVN Govt/USA, etc. taking food from villages and leaving them with little.

Please get a life and do a bit of real history.

Ok use history but don’t just be as obviously biased as so far presented.
If you do insist on the biased presentation it only makes you look stupid.
 
Imagine If Russia comes in, take over Edinburgh, remove UK citizens from Edinburgh and London and move in Russian Citizens and blocks the whole UK from all sides for the greater interest of Russians.Would you still prefer a peaceful resolution with Russians?I can assure you, UK Citizen will do whatever it takes to defeat kill Russian people and Soldiers.America attacked whole Afghanistan because 3000 Americans were killed in US.Israel has killed A lot more unarmed Palestine Civilians and i am not saying this because i am Muslim.I am completely moderate Muslim.In fact i always said that Pakistan should recognize Israel but after watching some documentaries made by UK Journalists..I was just shocked about Israel.I won't even consider Israel Soldiers human.

you have made my day love ya:tup:
 
O really?! They're threatening us for 6 years now! When they're going to grow some balls?! We are bored!

Shiny!!

Then we'll save the right to wipe them off the map! I think we have that right too, I mean to retaliate and send them back to the pre-stone age era! Because they going start the war... not us!

S-2!

And how you're going to do those things with a sunk Navy? :rofl: Around 198 of the U.S battleships,frigate and ect... are stationed in the Persian Gulf, We are aware of them. Check out the Abu Musa island there are enough ammunation and fortified bases with tightened air defence to stand against your whole navy not just the ones which stationed in the Persian Gulf!

Iranian air defence won't allow any aircraft to get back to Israel or U.S bases in one piece, Iran has more than 100.000 base (Paramilitary, IRGC, Military and ect...).

Our missile force retaliation will be MASSIVE and will show the true ability of Israel Arrow defence system and your PAC-2 system! :bunny:

Some bad things might happend inside of the U.S and to the U.S bases if U.S interfere with our war! We are waiting for this war for a long time and none going to ruin our fun!!

You think of Iran as a statute! Who has no reaction but im telling you now my friend, If anyone mess with us we are going to do something to the west and your country and it's allies that to be writtern in the history books until aliens show themselves and take the remaints of the so called west empire to their museums!

And btw Hamas just defend it's people, But your country, Britain, France and Germany better stop sending advance weapon system to Israel to kill innocent palestinians.

Well enough for now!

Best regards!
 
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Preconditions include the following-

1.) Continuous neutralization of al Quds naval capability and associated Iranian naval forces and facilities.

2.) Seizure of Hormuz islands.

3.) Destruction of all identified al Quds/IRGC C3I facilities.

4.) Destruction of all known Iranian Air Force facilities and identified aircraft.

5.) Neutralization of Iranian IADS systems and, in particular, S-300/400 sites.

6.) The maintenance of air supremacy (yes, I understand the term's implications) and open ingress/egress corridors for an indefinite period of up to 60-90 days.

Easy to talk about but not so easy to achieve or better to say, Not possible to achieve! We are watching your movements for a long time! We know your battle strategy! (Not just one but, We have done 18 graphical simulations, You can see the results at here سایت میلیتاری ، اولین سایت نظامی در ایران). Even i, a civilian predicted your strategy as you just told us! I just want you to know precautions already has been taken.

Anyway our border guards reports that some Apache are showing up near the border why don't you enter to our border? We need to upgrade our reverse engineering Cobras! I heard Apaches are very quiet!
 
Listen, how on earth is Hamas going to destroy a country which operates state of the art military hardware and gets financial aid from Uncle Sam to keep it's war machine going?

They are not, but they will still try. Which cannot be allowed.

The situation is in my eyes best to be described as me (Palestinians) throwing a sponge at Mr. Muradk, and he (Israelis) replies back by taking his AK-47 or even better a Bazooka and points it at me because I might've hurt him (yeah right) or "scared" him because of the sponge.

So killing a few Israelis is okay and Israel doesn't have a right to go after those attacking their civilians?

Note, when I said the use of AK-47 or Bazooka by Mr. Murad in response, I was talking lightly, it is more like a motherload of grenades, or even better clusterbombs, i'm sure you're familiar with that, Israel dropped loads of them in civilian areas and urban areas in Lebanon aswell, hey, alot of them still aren't unexploded, but you'll probably think of something as ridicule as your earlier statements to defend the use of that.

Cluster bombs are often to used to target launch sites, they are very good at that as they cover more ground than a normal bomb. It increases the chance of destroying the launchers.

Infact, you will defend the use of any act of violence or force by Israel in the nature of "selfdefence", that is the only cheap excuse you can come up with.

Please do explain why they are not allowed to defend themselves against those that would rather see them all dead.

Israel will make things more difficult for herself because I seriously wonder how long the Middle East and the Arab countries are going to put up with Israel's powerplay in the region and their massacre of the Palestinians.
It's gonna snap one day, and the Israeli people will NEVER find any peace in their lives unless their government uses their brains and realizes that humiliating and destroying the lives of Palestinians will not make their own citizens any safer, instead, the images shown all over the world will only lead to more hatred for the Israelis and will lead to more attacks on Israeli soil because with each attack from Israel, dozens and dozens of Palestinian children, men, women lose their lives, and their relatives, who have nothing left, not even some shelter, will have only hate, pure hate for Israel.
Hate is the only word, no understanding, simply hate, blind hate, because it's human, especially for the losses these poor people have to deal with.
I hope that the Palestinians will get their own state one day, but I fear the worst as long as Israel continues to build illegal settlements and then wonders (again) why Hamas is firing rockets at them, frucking hypocrits.

If people like Hamas stop trying to attack Israel it will stop, until then Israel will defend itself. Remember it has been Hamas that has broken the ceasefires, apart from the one instance when Israeli special forces pre-emptively struck (after intense intel gathering) tunnels that were being dug to attack Israeli forces. Hardly unprovoked action.
 
Imagine If Russia comes in, take over Edinburgh, remove UK citizens from Edinburgh and London and move in Russian Citizens and blocks the whole UK from all sides for the greater interest of Russians.Would you still prefer a peaceful resolution with Russians?I can assure you, UK Citizen will do whatever it takes to defeat kill Russian people and Soldiers.America attacked whole Afghanistan because 3000 Americans were killed in US.Israel has killed A lot more unarmed Palestine Civilians and i am not saying this because i am Muslim.I am completely moderate Muslim.In fact i always said that Pakistan should recognize Israel but after watching some documentaries made by UK Journalists..I was just shocked about Israel.I won't even consider Israel Soldiers human.

In this scenario,
Have the Russians been granted the right to be there and have their own state there by the UN (and the League of nations prior to that)? Do they have deeply rooted historical reasons to be there? Is there a high security risk for them if they integrate into Britain? Have they been at the receiving end of extreme persecution as a people for thousands of years, including recent attempts at wiping them out?
 
^^The Israelis are not people of the land of Palestine.

They are Ashkenazi Europeans and Sephardics who are predominantly South European.
 

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