Israel calls Indian forces unprofessional

[Ali.009]

Mumbai: Israel calls Indian forces lackadaisical, unprofessional, & incompetent​

The chopper hovering over a two story building makes great news feed, however it adds no value to the any hostage rescue. The choppers are too noisy and give ample warning to the hostage taking criminals. Security analysts believe that a better approach would have been to try to engage the hostage takers and then storm the two storied building by stealthily and silently climbing on to the roof of the building. It took the commandos 12 hours to strom the building. Why did it take so long?

Israeli counterterrorism experts are critical of how Indian security forces handled last week’s terror attacks in Mumbai, especially their raid on the local Chabad center, Nariman House. Haaretz

Masked Indian commandos dropped from helicopters Friday onto the roof of a Jewish centre in Mumbai where Muslim militants were holed up, possibly with hostages, as sharpshooters kept up a steady stream of fire. (Siddhartha Babaji/Associated Press

Why were helicopters used to storm a two story building of the Narmian House? The noise of the chopper would have given the terrorists a clear indication of the arrival of the SWAT team. The way they fell on the rooftop thud, thud, giving the terrorists enough time to execute their evil plans.

JERUSALEM, Israel - Israeli counterterrorism experts are critical of how Indian security forces handled last week’s terror attacks in Mumbai, especially their raid on the local Chabad center, Nariman House…. the Indians failed to contain the attacks and raided Nariman House too lackadaisically.

Maj. Gen. (ret.) David Tzur, a former commander of the police’s counterterror unit Yamam, who now runs a security consulting firm, acknowledged that when terrorists attack more than seven sites simultaneously, “it’s very hard to handle.”…However, he said, this excuse did not apply to the much smaller Nariman House. The 12-hour battle to liberate the building was “unreasonable,” he said, because “there’s no chance in the world that captives will survive an incident that doesn’t end within minutes of the break-in.”

The Indians, he added, apparently assumed the hostages had already been killed.

Col. (res.) Lior Lotan, formerly a senior officer in the army’s elite Sayeret Matkal unit, said the Indians had operated as if there were no hostages.

“When you’re rescuing captives, you enter fast, with maximum force, and try to reach the hostages as quickly as possible, even at the price of casualties,” he said. “Here, they operated much more cautiously.”

Television pictures from Nariman House also raised questions about the professionalism of the Indian forces. For instance, it is not clear why the area was not cleared of bystanders, or why the comparatively risky option of a helicopter-borne assault was chosen.

Moreover, the explosion that blew in the ground-floor door occurred before soldiers landed on the rooftop, whereas for maximum effect, they should have occurred simultaneously, the Israelis said. Crown Heights and haaretz

Israel is apparently furious at the handling of the Chabad House. In carefully crafted messages the Israelis have lambasted the Indian establishment.

On Thursday afternoon, events at Mumbai Chabad House took a dramatic turn. Indian security forces, in a strategy reminiscent of Russian operations in the face of similar kidnappings, are not allotting time to negotiate with the terrorists. Against a challenge of these proportions, the Indians opted to immediately storm the target sites, even at the price of the lives of hostages.

Israel has traditionally handled hostage situations differently. Frequent use of negotiations has not led to surrender to terrorist demands, but to their weakening, and the acquisition of valuable intelligence for rescue units. In the Mumbai hotels, the scenario was very different. Elite Indian commando forces battled dozens of hostage-takers in urban territory with the bodies of the victims lying on hallway floors.

But at Chabad House, maybe because it was a smaller site, the Indians opted to delay storming the building.The delay in storming the building apparently allowed time for Israeli involvement in analyzing the tactical conditions and exploiting expertise in negotiating with hostage-takers. The Israeli army has a detailed plan for rescuing hostages abroad, but it is unlikely India would have allowed it. Why did the attackers also choose a Jewish target? A senior researcher at the Institute for Counter-Terrorism, Lior Lotan, says that Chabad House was a secondary target, a hit on the “Smaller Satan” while attacking the “Great Satan,” the “Crusaders,” Western tourists and relations between the West and Indian authorities…

The delay in storming the building apparently allowed time for Israeli involvement in analyzing the tactical conditions and exploiting expertise in negotiating with hostage-takers. The Israeli army has a detailed plan for rescuing hostages abroad, but it is unlikely India would have allowed it. Why did the attackers also choose a Jewish target? A senior researcher at the Institute for Counter-Terrorism, Lior Lotan, says that Chabad House was a secondary target, a hit on the “Smaller Satan” while attacking the “Great Satan,” the “Crusaders,” Western tourists and relations between the West and Indian authorities.

Dr. Yoram Schweitzer of Tel Aviv University’s Institute for National Security Studies says Al-Qaida’s interest in Israel has increased over the years. Since 2002, there have been a series of attacks on Jews and Israelis, from the attack in Mombasa, Kenya, to Katyusha rockets fired into Israel from Jordan and Lebanon. Also the broad security cooperation between Israel and India increased motivation for the attack. ANALYSIS / Israel cannot defend against attacks such as one at Mumbai Chabad house
By Amos Harel

The Indians, stung by the Israeli criticism and media bad mouthing reacted angrily to the Israel’s negativei commentary of the Indian operations.

Indian media have reacted angrily to criticism from Israeli defense officials of the Indian commando operation against the terrorists who took control of Chabad house in Mumbai.

Eight hostages inside the center were killed, including Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg and his wife Rivka. All of the victims were Jewish, Israeli or both. They accuse Israel of casting doubt on the effectiveness of their “brave” Indian commandos, and claim that Israel has a bad record in hostage-rescue operations, aside from the successful Operation Entebbe in 1976.

Eli Blotserkovski, the political envoy to the Israeli embassy in New Delhi, told Haaretz, “This emphasizes the need for all the international community, not just India and Israel, to act in a coordinated manner against terrorism.”

Another Israeli diplomat in India said Israel needs to be careful not to criticize India.

“Particularly in the present situation we have an important strategic relationship with them and we stand with them in a shared struggle against terrorism,” he said.Indian media react angrily to Israeli criticism of Chabad rescue operation By Anshel Pfeffer, Haaretz Correspondent

India: Why are Hindus violently assaulting Christians? Rupee News for the past several years has been discussing the Indian support for terrorists in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal and Pakistan. India has been playing with fire. India support for Frankensteins will create blowback. it appears that the analysis of Rupee News was correct.

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Finally the world can see how incompetent is the military of 'a super power'. Its navy has failed to protect the mumbai's coast, its army failed to remove terrorists for 2 days, 12 supermen over 1200, the Military officers engage in regular terrorist activites eg recent train bombings. India needs to re-train its army.

This thread might be useful too http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...19-incompetent-navy-failed-protect-india.html

 

[Black Stone]

The Israeli's are angry and someone needs to be blamed. In this case, it's the Indian forces. As always, you know how sensitive this is to them, a few of their citizens have been killed and a kid has been made an orphan. To them, that is like half of the Israeli population has just been wiped out.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

I can imagine Israeli officials screaming at their Indian counterparts, "What the hell are we giving you all this equipment and training for?!!!!!!??!!!" something to that extent.

 

[Vinod2070]

So Israelis are always right! They also call the Palestinians terrorists, you guys agree with that too?

Good, so go ahead and establish relations with them.

Again from the trashy source!

 

[Kharian_Beast]

So Israelis are always right! They also call the Palestinians terrorists, you guys agree with that too?

Good, so go ahead and establish relations with them.

Again from the trashy source!

You are just ignoring the fact that instead of countries who had victims in this tragedy come hand in bag with a tear in their eye to console Indian officials, they are going to severely grill India for the way that it mismanaged this entire blunderous ordeal which led to the deaths of their citizens. Remember these guys were held hostage for long stretches of time they were not killed immediately, Indian security forces could have done something during this time.

Remember this is the formula Israel uses :

1 Israeli = 100 Palestinians
100 Palestinians = roughly 1,000 Indians (with regards to population)

So therefore Israel lost more in this tragedy than India and is really pissed.

 

[Geromix]

Well there appears to be a germ of truth in all this.

People in India are not criticizing the NSG for how they fought,they fought very bravely and had no collateral damage.
They are only criticizing the fact that NSG Commandos had to be flown in from Delhi which took a lot of time.

Fortunately the government has woken up and has ordered the creations of 4 hubs for NSG Commandos to be stationed across the country,an Air Fleet and augmentation of the forces.

But this wont change relations with Israel.In fact the Mumbai attacks are only going to bring closer India and Israel.

 

[smeaglegolum]

Some people here always contradict themselves by posting articles which are contradicting one another.

One article posted by Ali says that this is all Hindu/Zionist conspiracy to kill policemen involved in the investigating of malegaon blasts, on the other hand, Ali also posts article which says that Israel is pi$$ed off at handling of the attack.

This tells about the mindset of some people here, that is to show India in bad light even if they contradict themselves.

 

[Vinod2070]

You are just ignoring the fact that instead of countries who had victims in this tragedy come hand in bag with a tear in their eye to console Indian officials, they are going to severely grill India for the way that it mismanaged this entire blunderous ordeal which led to the deaths of their citizens. Remember these guys were held hostage for long stretches of time they were not killed immediately, Indian security forces could have done something during this time.

Remember this is the formula Israel uses :

1 Israeli = 100 Palestinians
100 Palestinians = roughly 1,000 Indians (with regards to population)

So therefore Israel lost more in this tragedy than India and is really pissed.

India and Israel both suffered from this atrocity and would together make sure that the perpetrators are effectively dispatched to their rightful hell.

So as per your formula, thousand or more terrorists should be taken out from whichever country these terrorists came from. But I hope no innocent suffers because of these acts, only the terrorists and their supporters wherever they may be.

May be Britain should also do a strong background check of any terrorists there as there are reports of some of them coming from there and many of their supporters are surely based there who may one day become terrorists themselves.

There are reports that the terrorists also tortured the inmates in Nariman house before killing them, perhaps by beheading that is the favorite method of these butchers.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

India and Israel both suffered from this atrocity and would together make sure that the perpetrators are effectively dispatched to their rightful hell.

So as per your formula, thousand or more terrorists should be taken out from whichever country these terrorists came from. But I hope no innocent suffers because of these acts, only the terrorists and their supporters wherever they may be.

May be Britain should also do a strong background check of any terrorists there as there are reports of some of them coming from there and many of their supporters are surely based there who may one day become terrorists themselves.

There are reports that the terrorists also tortured the inmates in Nariman house before killing them, perhaps by beheading that is the favorite method of these butchers.

Mate I don't think Indians are in a position to give advice to the English about terrorism.

 

[Geromix]

Mate I don't think Indians are in a position to give advice to the English about terrorism.

Maybe not but this incident has certainly created a situation where the British,Israelis,Americans and Indians would co-operate with each other more.

 

[Vinod2070]

Some people here always contradict themselves by posting articles which are contradicting one another.

One article posted by Ali says that this is all Hindu/Zionist conspiracy to kill policemen involved in the investigating of malegaon blasts, on the other hand, Ali also posts article which says that Israel is pi$ off at handling of the attack.

This tells about the mindset of some people here, that is to show India in bad light even if they contradict themselves.

People like them tie themselves in knots all over in trying to cook the spaghetti.

 

[Vinod2070]

Mate I don't think Indians are in a position to give advice to the English about terrorism.

If there are British citizens involved, definitely the British will feel the heat and would need to take the action against them.

This war against terror is everyone's war. Britain has already made many follies in being too liberal to these hatemongers and giving them a free run. They did face the blowback on 7/7 and obviously they would co-operate. They are a victim of terror too.

 

[Flintlock]

Not-worth-a-rupee news again....yawn...

 

[Imran Khan]

Israel calls Indian forces unprofessional

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Mumbai: Israel calls Indian forces lackadaisical, unprofessional, & incompetent

then its israils falt they will never train good indian.they shuld blame there self because there student is failed in exam shuld be its teacher's falt

 

[x_man]

Nobody could have predicted such multiple attacks with such intensity. And no matter how much your special forces are trained in simulated operations, the real thing always come with more surprises, confusions and intensity…

While watching the whole thing unfolded on TV, it was my own assumption (and the gang around me) that casualties will atleast touch a four figure mark. But a figure of 190 (around) speaks itself that the special forces were not only successful in neutralising the terrorists but also achieved it with minimum amount of casualties…I thinks this speaks very high of their effort and must be acknowledged…

Now once its all done and wrapped up, people will comeup with all their theories that if that could have been done or that’s how if it was done …There will be lots of usual Ifs and Buts and the standard whining…..You cant stop them so perhaps just ignore them…

Keeping in view the number of locations, number of terrorists and the number of casualties, I think that security forces did a great job…They might have erred somewhere but then who doesn’t in such situations….....While we put the dead to rest , we should perhaps keep our biases at rest as well for a while and must not forget to recognize the efforts put up by the special forces …