Islamization of Jinnah.

[M. Sarmad]

You uphold the view of Jinnah?? How can Jinnah's view be in contradiction of Quran??

In fact Jinnah`s views are not in contradiction with Quran . Sorry to disappoint you , but Ahmedis can not be declared Kafir on basis of Quran only . Do some research on it and you will get your answer

Sorry your logic regarding Shias lack validity. Half my family is Shia and trust me I have lived among both Shias and Sunnis in fact in my entire life I have never seen any Sunni or followers of other sects to be declaring Shias as non Muslims

Sorry to disappoint you once again . You surely live in some different world . I know a lot of people personally who think that Shia are Kafir . Anyways this may help :

Only 50 percent Sunnis in Pakistan accept Shias as Muslims – Pew Survey

And like I said nobody is snatching any rights of theirs based on being non Muslims. The Quran and Sunnah gives them equal rights and so does the constitution on that basis.

No offense but You seem to be totally unaware of what our constitution says . Khair you are free to believe in whatever you want
Peace

I'm not a Pakistani but i have read alot about M.Jinnah and from what i have read i can only conclude that M.Jinnah wanted a secular Pakistan ,i totally agree with you and i wish people would see the difference between what is and what it should have been.

Thanks a lot brother

 

[T-123456]

u missed 7890 in your name

You missed alot more.

 

[Aamna14]

In fact Jinnah`s views are not in contradiction with Quran . Sorry to disappoint you , but Ahmedis can not be declared Kafir on basis of Quran only . Do some research on it and you will get your answer




Sorry to disappoint you once again . You surely live in some different world . I know a lot of people personally who think that Shia are Kafir . Anyways this may help :

Only 50 percent Sunnis in Pakistan accept Shias as Muslims – Pew Survey



No offense but You seem to be totally unaware of what our constitution says . Khair you are free to believe in whatever you want
Peace

You didn't answer the question I asked?? And you are saying that Quran doesn't make it imperative on Muslims to believe in the finality of Prophet Muhammad PBUH?? That can be your opinion but don't shove them down somebody's throats as facts and claim that they aren't aware. Thats the easiest escape route.
Yes I mentioned my experience, not in the least did I say that there is no Shia Sunni strife at all but that again it holds no solid basis according to Quran and Sunnah so unlike the case of Ahmadis, there is no issue in the constitution. If you take that into account how many of your people would want taliban's version of Islam?? And would that mean that Talibans are new custodians of Islam?? Anyways, you seem to be in the habit of playing this "unaware" card at all those who challenge your opinions. Peace.

 

[M. Sarmad]

You didn't answer the question I asked?? And you are saying that Quran doesn't make it imperative on Muslims to believe in the finality of Prophet Muhammad PBUH?? That can be your opinion but don't shove them down somebody's throats as facts and claim that they aren't aware. Thats the easiest escape route.
Yes I mentioned my experience, not in the least did I say that there is no Shia Sunni strife at all but that again it holds no solid basis according to Quran and Sunnah so unlike the case of Ahmadis, there is no issue in the constitution. If you take that into account how many of your people would want taliban's version of Islam?? And would that mean that Talibans are new custodians of Islam?? Anyways, you seem to be in the habit of playing this "unaware" card at all who challenge your opinions. Peace.

And when did I try to do that ?? I just said that do some research yourself and you will get the answer.

And you are unaware of what our constitution says . Look at your posts . You have been claiming that our constitution gives equal rights to Ahmedis and Non Muslims . So gussa kernay ki bajay try to understand and admit your shortcomings

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan

"I, Abdul Aziz Shura, known as Aziz Kashmiri, editor of the daily Roshni, Srinagar, Kashmir, make the following declaration under oath.

"A delegation of the Kashmir Press Conference, Srinagar, which included several leading newspaper men, met Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, President of the Muslim League, at his appointed time, on 23 May 1944 at 11 a.m., at `Koshik', Nishat, Srinagar, and asked various questions.

"I asked Quaid-i-Azam, Who can join the All-India Muslim League? At this, Mr. M. A. Sabir, editor of al-Barq, told the Quaid-i-Azam that the background to the question was probably that in Kashmir Ahmadis were not allowed to join the Muslim conference. Quaid-i-Azam smiled and recorded his reply as follows:

"I have been asked a disturbing question, as to who among the Muslims can be a member of the Muslim Conference. It has been asked with particular reference to the Qadianis. My reply is that, as far as the constitution of the All-India Muslim League is concerned, it stipulates that any Muslim, without distinction of creed or sect, can become a member, provided he accepts the views, policy and programme of the Muslim League, signs the form of membership and pays the subscription. I appeal to the Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir not to raise sectarian questions, but instead to unite on one platform under one banner. In this lies the welfare of the Muslims. In this way, not only can Muslims make political and social progress effectively, but so can other communities, and so also can the state of Kashmir as a whole."

"Mr. M. A. Sabir tried as hard as he could to persuade the Quaid-i-Azam to declare Qadianis as being out of the fold of Islam. But the Quaid-i-Azam stuck resolutely to his principle and kept on replying: `What right have I to declare a person non-Muslim, when he claims to be a Muslim'.

"The proceedings of this press conference were published, under my signature, in the Riyasati of that time and the Lahore newspapers, especially Inqilab, Shahbaz, Zamindar, Siyasat etc."

So do you agree that Jinnah Sahib (rh) was perfectly fine with Ahmadis labelling themselves as muslims? That's great, sir. Can you relegate that to the rest of your enlightened Ulema who have declared themselves guardians of Pakistan. I am glad Zarvan that you are defending Jinnah's Pakistan. Well done.

Mr I only defend Jinah because he was a true Muslim but for Muslim what matter is what ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW Have said and what Sahabas did not any one else who ever after them say something we would judge it on Quran and Sunnat and how Sahabas acted and in light of Quran and Sunnat Ahmedies are clearly not Muslims so even if Jinah thought that it doesn't matter Mr

 

[Spring Onion]

more like what Jinnah wanted, "Islamic socialism and not other ism"

p.s exact his words.

he wanted moderateism (hope you guys excuse me for coining the term).

the two extremes i.e mullas and neo-liberals are wrongly projecting Jinnah for their own agenda. Both are wrongly attaching their own ideology to his vision

 

[surya kiran]

@Hyperion where art thou?

 

[Leader]

he wanted moderateism (hope you guys excuse me for coining the term).

the two extremes i.e mullas and neo-liberals are wrongly projecting Jinnah for their own agenda. Both are wrongly attaching their own ideology to his vision

you are spot on !

In fact Jinnah`s views are not in contradiction with Quran . Sorry to disappoint you , but Ahmedis can not be declared Kafir on basis of Quran only . Do some research on it and you will get your answer




Sorry to disappoint you once again . You surely live in some different world . I know a lot of people personally who think that Shia are Kafir . Anyways this may help :

Only 50 percent Sunnis in Pakistan accept Shias as Muslims – Pew Survey



No offense but You seem to be totally unaware of what our constitution says . Khair you are free to believe in whatever you want
Peace



Thanks a lot brother

whatever there was in the past, the Ahamdis or Qadiyanis or Lahori group whatever they call themselves, have evolved into this.

I dont hold anything against them in particular, they are as misguided as any other shia or sunni etc.. defeating the purpose of Islam.

 

[asad71]

Jinah never wanted a secular Pakistan its the biggest lie who claim that Jinah wanted a secular Pakistan they only bring up one speech if these people who are telling either lies or half even less than half truth should publish all the speeches of Jinah starting from 23rd March 1940 till his death than we I would ask after reading those speeches weather Jinah wanted a secular Pakistan or one based on Islamic Laws and Principals which he understood very well

1.Thank you for this post. I was stunned with the wording of the title of this thread. Jinnah understood Islam as very few would.
2. People play around with his speech at the opening of CA forgetting the background under which that speech was delivered.SA was in flames with frenzied communal killings. As a conscientious man and a responsible leader he hoped to calm things with this speech.
3. Recently it has been discovered that certain statements,papers,speeches,etc of Jinnah had been kept hidden in the archives. This was done to distort facts that establish Jinnah's adherence to Islamic values. The archives were under the care of Zafrullah Choudhury.

 

[Leader]

I'm not a Pakistani but i have read alot about M.Jinnah and from what i have read i can only conclude that M.Jinnah wanted a secular Pakistan ,i totally agree with you and i wish people would see the difference between what is and what should have been.

You are wrong brother, Jinnah was not secular for the cause of Pakistan..he never ever mentioned the word secular during Pakistan movement, we are the only nation-state in Muslim world who fought their way to independence...it would be unjust to his vision to associate it with secularism, cause he believed in Islamic values and propagated so and so as well during the whole movement... in short he wanted an Islamic socialist state, he believed we as muslims never needed to turn to secularism, our Islamic values are good enough to manage a state without any sort of discrimination on the basis of caste colour, creed or religious beliefs..

the problem is did we uphold to his vision and followed, my understanding is that except for the objectives' resolution which is magna carta of Pakistan's constitution, rest of our "reforms" make us look like a theocratic state, which Jinnah clearly ruled out as an option.

If we had followed the path of Objective's resolution and not bowed to Mullahism, we might have had taken a better path in our national life. instead modernists shrinked to the point of not being noticed.. while extreme neo-liberals/anti-religion and mullahism started to take our country for ride.. therefore, as a nation to follow Jinnah's vision, moderates must step up and own political Islam for the benefit of the society and take away the right from mullahs and neo-liberals to define what values Islam preach !

1.Thank you for this post. I was stunned with the wording of the title of this thread. Jinnah understood Islam as very few would.
2. People play around with his speech at the opening of CA forgetting the background under which that speech was delivered.SA was in flames with frenzied communal killings. As a conscientious man and a responsible leader he hoped to calm things with this speech.
3. Recently it has been discovered that certain statements,papers,speeches,etc of Jinnah had been kept hidden in the archives. This was done to distort facts that establish Jinnah's adherence to Islamic values. The archives were under the care of Zafrullah Choudhury.

Sir care to share if you have them?

 

[notsuperstitious]

Please if you want a discussion learn to comment without trolling. Otherwise I am not interested. When you declare the posts of those you don't agree with as Mumbo Jumbo then you reveal your intentions pretty clearly.

Nobody has patience for mumbo jumbo, its trolling when islamists try to come up with weird self serving logic to justify different rights of muslims and dhimmis and then in the same breath talk about the equality under quran and sunnah, not when i dismiss their apologies.

we are the only nation-state in Muslim world who fought their way to independence.

Say what???

 

[Aamna14]

Nobody has patience for mumbo jumbo, its trolling when islamists try to come up with weird self serving logic to justify different rights of muslims and dhimmis and then in the same breath talk about the equality under quran and sunnah, not when i dismiss their apologies.

Keep your name calling to yourself It only suits you. If I was interested in the same you would have heard the kind of mumbo jumbo you have just uttered.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Keep your name calling to yourself It only suits you. If I was interested in the same you would have heard the kind of mumbo jumbo you have just uttered.

So we agree then that the rights of muslims and dhimmis are different, as is OBVIOUS, and hence your statement about the Quran, Sunnah and indeed Pakistani constitution grating equal rights are factually incorrect.

Fine, as long as you are not whitewashing obvious facts, I can handle your attitude.

 

[Aamna14]

So we agree then that the rights of muslims and dhimmis are different, as is OBVIOUS, and hence your statement about the Quran, Sunnah and indeed Pakistani constitution grating equal rights are factually incorrect.

Fine, as long as you are not whitewashing obvious facts, I can handle your attitude.

No, I find it hard to agree with someone with preconceived notions regarding something they have no clue about yet dare to name call others. With that kind of an attitude you would surely find mine difficult to handle.

 

[Kompromat]

So we agree then that the rights of muslims and dhimmis are different, as is OBVIOUS, and hence your statement about the Quran, Sunnah and indeed Pakistani constitution grating equal rights are factually incorrect.

Fine, as long as you are not whitewashing obvious facts, I can handle your attitude.

This is for the Pakistanis to figure out. Your opinion about this is just an opinion of a foreigner which has no value at all.