Islamization of Jinnah.

[Zarvan]

Stop quoting me Kharji bitch .

Mr keep your mouth shut you traitor of RASOOL SAW and follower of traitor pervaizi

 

[Jaanbaz]

Well that escalated quickly.

 

[Porus]

Quaid said that Hindus and Muslims were to be equal citizens of the state as a fundamental principle !! religion has got nothing to do with state business ... What else is secularism ??

Jinnah saheb also said that, “ The Hindus and the Muslims belong to two different religions, philosophies, social customs and literature… To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built up for the government of such a state. ”

Judging by these two altogether different statements one fail to decide whether Jinnah was a hypocrite or just another confused Indian Muslim.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Jinnah saheb also said that, “ The Hindus and the Muslims belong to two different religions, philosophies, social customs and literature… To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built up for the government of such a state. ”
Judging by these two altogether different statements one fail to decide whether Jinnah was a hypocrite or just another confused Indian Muslim

He was neither hypocrite , nor confused . Earlier on , Jinnah was using the demand for Pakistan as a bargaining counter only . Jinnah`s sole purpose behind this demand was to safeguard the rights of Muslims of subcontinent .Once all other options failed , and a separate homeland for Muslims was created eventually , the type of balance that Jinnah wanted was still achieved . Granting equal rights to Hindus of Pakistan would have ensured the protection of rights of Muslims left behind in India . So he made it clear to the constituent assembly that what kind of constitution he wanted for the country . He did something that was in the best interest of Muslims of subcontinent . He was one of the greatest statesmen of all times .

 

[INDIC]

Jinnah saheb also said that, “ The Hindus and the Muslims belong to two different religions, philosophies, social customs and literature… To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built up for the government of such a state. ”

Judging by these two altogether different statements one fail to decide whether Jinnah was a hypocrite or just another confused Indian Muslim.

By the time Pakistan was created, his two nation theory went too far in spreading extreme hatred, even if he wanted a secular state in Pakistan that was simply impossible. Two nation Theory and Secularism can coexist only in delusions.

 

[M. Sarmad]

By the time Pakistan was created, his two nation theory went too far in spreading extreme hatred and even if he wanted a secular state in Pakistan that was simply impossible. Two nation Theory and Secularism can coexist only in delusions.

My friend secularism can exist in a Muslim country . There are over 25 Muslim countries in the world who are officially "secular" . Jinnah`s understanding of Islam was quite different from Mullah`s understanding . Jinnah believed that:

“Democracy is in the blood of Musalmans, who look upon complete equality of manhood [mankind]…[and] believe in fraternity, equality and liberty.”
― Muhammad Ali Jinnah (London, 14 December 1946)

Only after the death of Jinnah , the conservatives had their chance and Mullahs , who were strongly opposed to the idea of creation of Pakistan earlier , became active in national politics .

 

[INDIC]

My friend secularism can exist in a Muslim country . There are over 25 Muslim countries in the world who are officially "secular" . Jinnah`s understanding of Islam was quite different from Mullah`s understanding . Only after the death of Jinnah , the conservatives had their chance and Mullahs , who were strongly opposed to the idea of creation of Pakistan earlier , became active in national politics .

I never mentioned Muslims, I said, "Two nation Theory and Secularism can coexist only in delusions." Jinnah's Muslim nation wasn't same with Mullahs, he wanted all sects(Ahmedis included) to be treated as equal and same people.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I never mentioned Muslims, I said, "Two nation Theory and Secularism can coexist only in delusions." Jinnah's Muslim nation wasn't same with Mullahs, he wanted all sects(Ahmedis included) to be treated as equal and same people.

“Democracy is in the blood of Musalmans, who look upon complete equality of manhood [mankind]…[and] believe in fraternity, equality and liberty.”
― Muhammad Ali Jinnah (London, 14 December 1946)

 

[Hyperion]

Zarvee.... you still alive..... or did I succeed?


@Zarvan

 

[INDIC]

“Democracy is in the blood of Musalmans, who look upon complete equality of manhood [mankind]…[and] believe in fraternity, equality and liberty.”
― Muhammad Ali Jinnah (London, 14 December 1946)

Most of the Pakistanis believe that their existence is because they different nation from Hindus and unrelated to Hindus based on the same two nation theory. Do you really think, there is any scope of secularism in Pakistan with such mentality. There was never a scope for secularism in Pakistan after the extreme damage two nation theory caused in Hindu-Muslims relations.

 

[Porus]

He was neither hypocrite , nor confused . Earlier on , Jinnah was using the demand for Pakistan as a bargaining counter only . Jinnah`s sole purpose behind this demand was to safeguard the rights of Muslims of subcontinent .Once all other options failed , and a separate homeland for Muslims was created ultimately , the type of balance that Jinnah wanted was still achieved . Granting equal rights to Hindus of Pakistan would have ensured the protection of rights of Muslims left behind in India . So he made it clear to the constituent assembly that what kind of constitution he wanted for the country . He did something that was in the best interest of Muslims of subcontinent . He was one of the greatest statesmen of all times .

Granting rights to Hindus who were ethnically cleansed right under his nose? How can you call a person secular whose demand for a separate homeland for his people was based on religious differences between Hindus and Muslims knowing very well that Hindus would make up almost 20% of the whole population of his newly created country. Am I also right to assume that he just wanted to use the Hindu population of Pakistan to blackmail the Indians, if you don’t treat our Muslim brethren justly and fairly then we will also mistreat your brethren in Pakistan. What kind of statesman uses a portion of the population of his own country as bargaining tool?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Granting rights to Hindus who were ethnically cleansed right under his nose? How can you call a person secular whose demand for a separate homeland for his people was based on religious differences between Hindus and Muslims knowing very well that Hindus would make up almost 20% of the whole population of his newly created country. Am I also right to assume that he just wanted to use the Hindu population of Pakistan to blackmail the Indians, if you don’t treat our Muslim brethren justly and fairly then we will also mistreat your brethren in Pakistan. What kind of statesman uses a portion of the population of his own country as bargaining tool?

Ethnically cleansed ?? Get your facts right dear . And Mass Migrations were never intended under partition plan . What led to riots in Punjab and Bengal is a totally different story . Rest of your post has been answered already .

Most of the Pakistanis believe that their existence is because they different nation from Hindus and unrelated to Hindus based on the same two nation theory. Do you really think, there is any scope of secularism in Pakistan with such mentality. There was never a scope for secularism in Pakistan after the extreme damage two nation theory caused in Hindu-Muslims relations.

I am hopeful that our future generations will surely realize all this and opt for a progressive state instead of a medieval style theocratic state .

 

[SQ8]

Pakistan was meant to be "A state for better socio-economic and political chances for the Muslims of Subcontinent" , Conservatives (after the death of jinnah) , mixed it with a totally different idea of "A state for protection and propagation of Islamic religion"

In my view the most balanced and accurate description of Jinnah's vision. The rest of the parroting quotes(some people are excellent at copy pasting the same things again and again)... and the overly secular ideals are all presenting version of their own personal wishes about Pakistan.

But Mohammad Ali Jinnah is DEAD. He died at the back of an ambulance without any escort.. without the wailing sirens and bullet proof cars that are now the sign of even a lowly judge or provincial minister.. without the route blocking MPs that do so for our Army Officers.. without any of it.
Jinnah's Pakistan is also DEAD.. its finished, buried and NO longer exists in ANY FORM. What remains are people forced to lived together by virtue of being born in the same country. This is not a liquid that is being held together and will stick together in the vessel that is Pakistan.. these people are like compressed gas in the Pakistan cylinder. with explosive molecules(Obvious here). So posting on his quotes, nitpicking on what he said or did not say is irrelevant as he is no more now than the man who appears on our currency notes and helps as a decorative painting in the offices of officials.

 

[M. Sarmad]

So posting on his quotes, nitpicking on what he said or did not say is irrelevant as he is no more now than the man who appears on our currency notes and helps as a decorative painting in the offices of officials.

Yes , Jinnah`s Pakistan died with him . His vision died a year later when Objectives Resolution got passed from the assembly . All this may be irrelevant now , But why try to portray Jinnah as some one who he wasn`t ??. He should be remembered and respected for what he was , not what we wanted him to be ...

 

[scorpionx]

I do not see Mr.Jinnah's Pakistan died along with him. A substantial part of his countrymen still revere him and his ideologies, and what I see is a major portion of Pakistan's young turks are still optimistic about building a new Pakistan based upon his secular and liberal principles.

Doubtless, Mr.Jinnah is one of the most ill understood character in this subcontinent and Pakistan's civilian and Military rulers have done no good to him or his dream of a prosperous Pakistan. And there will be every effort to paint him as a "Mullah" from the fundamentalists. But the spirited effort to bring him back which is quite obvious on electronic media and internet is very very encouraging.