Islam at war – with itself

[KingMamba]

Baniyas gone wild in this thread.

 

[Contrarian]

Strong? Do not make me laugh your countless subjugation to foreign invaders shows not just your weakness but the weaknesses of your false Gods. Your idols could not save you, hell they could not save themselves. Your gai mata is lunch the world over.

So what happened to the yindoo slaves who did not convert? What do you suppose happened to your women? Let me save you the trouble, they served as concubines in Muslim harems and were quite happy to do so.

Yet, we retained our identity and you did not... ever heard of be-painde ka lota? switching loyalties to avoid hardships??... Actually interestingly enough, the same trait of adopting a strong sugar daddy is visible in Pakistani foreign policy today.. USA in the past, China in the present.. God knows what in the future

Don't you see this is what Muslims do when asked uncomfortable questions about their religion.

He is insulting your religion Karan so that you digress from the topic and turn this into a troll thread which can be locked.

 

[shuntmaster]

Actually, that's where you're wrong. Islam actually allows people to question the Quran and Hadith, the logic being that Islam is confident that it can weather any criticism and explain every controversial subject.

A reformation doesn't mean that Islam has to change, the only thing that has to change is how it is interpreted. The two are completely different.

Actually all evidence points to the contrary, otherwise there would not be blasphemy laws in Muslim states to protect Islam from any debate. Even when there is some discussion on the tenets of the faith, there are many restrictions and limitations put, e.g. Islams prophets character and actions etc., which will not result in any meaningful discussion.

I don't think you've actually read the Da Vinci Code, otherwise, you wouldn't make such a comparison. Besides, The Satanic Verses are a completely different situation, as it is making a mockery of people's beliefs, whereas the Da Vinci Code does no such thing.

Yes, I have read both The Satanic Verses and the Da Vinci Code. I tend to follow Mr. Ahmed Deedat's way, don't get angry for no reason, read and learn.

You assume too much. I have both read the book and watched the movie. Though it is a work of fiction, it does challenge some of the long held sacred beliefs of the Christians. In the same way, satanic verses is also a work of fiction, but the reaction of believers of the two faiths to the two books was very different.
Just because the Christians didn't aggressively display their displeasure with DaVinci code, don't be under the impression that Christians were not offended by the book.

 

[That Guy]

you are the first muslim that i have heard who says quran can be questioned and islam can be interpreted. @Zarvan your views please



who is baniya? are sunnis, baniyas? because they are the only wild ones. lol

I have no idea where you got that idea from. The fact that there are different schools of thought and sects proves that the Quran and Hadith can and have been interpreted differently by different peoples and groups.

Islam has nothing to hide, question all you want and in the end, you'll find the answers.

Also, I'm sure @Zarvan agrees with me, at least to a certain extent.

 

[That Guy]

Actually all evidence points to the contrary, otherwise there would not be blasphemy laws in Muslim states to protect Islam from any debate. Even when there is some discussion on the tenets of the faith, there are many restrictions and limitations put, e.g. Islams prophets character and actions etc., which will not result in any meaningful discussion.

Not really, the blasphemy laws were introduced years after Prophet Muhammad. It seems you're basing your argument on circumstantial evidence. Remember, correlation doesn't imply causation. In the case of Pakistan, it was introduced by the British to uphold communal harmony during the time of British India. Pakistan ended up inheriting these laws, and unfortunately these laws haven't been repealed as of yet.

I suggest you look at the works of Sheikh Ahmed Deedat.

You assume too much. I have both read the book and watched the movie. Though it is a work of fiction, it does challenge some of the long held sacred beliefs of the Christians. In the same way, satanic verses is also a work of fiction, but the reaction of believers of the two faiths to the two books was very different.
Just because the Christians didn't aggressively display their displeasure with DaVinci code, don't be under the impression that Christians were not offended by the book.

I assume very little, the Da Vinci Code does very little to challenge long held Christian beliefs, it does not parody any sort of other text. The most controversial thing about the movie being that Jesus was simply a man, not a prophet and certainly not a god, but simply a man.

The Satanic Verses parodies the Quran in it's entirety, from the Characters to the events, it's as simple as that. It is not simply a deconstruction, as much as it is a text to purposefully mock an entire belief system.

Of course Christians were offended by the DaVinci Code, they're also offended by a lot of things.

 

[Beerbal]

Mutation of the tenets of a religion over time is always expected and in some cases, is also desired. But what's unfortunate in case of Islam is that today's perception of it has actually become an exact opposite of what it started off as..

Islam is same, not exact opposie..

 

[karan.1970]

Don't you see this is what Muslims do when asked uncomfortable questions about their religion.

He is insulting your religion Karan so that you digress from the topic and turn this into a troll thread which can be locked.

The funny thing is that most negative reactions on the thread are from those who either commented without reading the OP or without comprehending it

The OP does not question Islam in itself, but its current practice.. But some Pakistanis responding here are simply too self absorbed and clueless to notice that..

 

[shuntmaster]

Not really, the blasphemy laws were introduced years after Prophet Muhammad. It seems you're basing your argument on circumstantial evidence. Remember, correlation doesn't imply causation. In the case of Pakistan, it was introduced by the British to uphold communal harmony during the time of British India. Pakistan ended up inheriting these laws, and unfortunately these laws haven't been repealed as of yet.

I suggest you look at the works of Sheikh Ahmed Deedat.

The penalty for blasphemy and apostasy are built into the structure of Islamic edifice. They have been there since the very beginning of Islam and have been exercised quite extensively wherever sharia is in vogue.
This is a self protective mechanism in Islam, so that no debate is even contemplated.

I have viewed some video clips of Deedat. The only thing I noticed is the ****** and abusive language used against Rushdie and anyone opposing his views.

Another thing regarding the Islamic apologists is the attempt by them to make Islam more palatable to the modern sensitivities and being on the right side of political correctness. One E.g. is the claim that Islam means 'peace', when for 13 centuries it meant 'Submission', submission to the Islamic God Allah and more importantly submission to Allah's self proclaimed prophet and by extension the prophets successors.
Newer interpretations of the word Jihad have also been peddled around.

 

[Beerbal]

I assume very little, the Da Vinci Code does very little to challenge long held Christian beliefs, it does not parody any sort of other text. The most controversial thing about the movie being that Jesus was simply a man, not a prophet and certainly not a god, but simply a man.

The Satanic Verses parodies the Quran in it's entirety, from the Characters to the events, it's as simple as that. It is not simply a deconstruction, as much as it is a text to purposefully mock an entire belief system.

Of course Christians were offended by the DaVinci Code, they're also offended by a lot of things.

Da vinci code challenged foundation of Christianism.
1. Jesus was just a man
2. He was married
3. The girl thought prostitute was not prostitute, infact she was wife of jesus
4. Jesus had a baby girl
5. Peter betrayed Jesus and tried to kill his family.
6. Church was misogynist for many centuries...

and so on...

I am glad that christians didn't react violently...

 

[That Guy]

The penalty for blasphemy and apostasy are built into the structure of Islamic edifice. They have been there since the very beginning of Islam and have been exercised quite extensively wherever sharia is in vogue.
This is a self protective mechanism in Islam, so that no debate is even contemplated.

Look, I'm tired of going around in circles. You keep repeating the same damn thing, so I'm going to stop right here before I get in trouble with the mods.

Da vinci code challenged foundation of Christianism.
1. Jesus was just a man
2. He was married
3. The girl thought prostitute was not prostitute, infact she was wife of jesus
4. Jesus had a baby girl
5. Peter betrayed Jesus and tried to kill his family.
6. Church was misogynist for many centuries...

and so on...

I am glad that christians didn't react violently...

Actually, most of those points are ignorable and the work of fiction, his main point was that Jesus was a man. The other things were just the author being creative.

Though, the Church being misogynistic was also a point, it was actually very small.

Incidentally, has anyone read Angels and Demons? That one really targeted the Church as a whole. From the idea of creationism, to corruption within the Church and it's teachings.

 

[Beerbal]

Actually, most of those points are ignorable and the work of fiction, his main point was that Jesus was a man. The other things were just the author being creative.

Though, the Church being misogynistic was also a point, it was actually very small.

Incidentally, has anyone read Angels and Demons? That one really targeted the Church as a whole.

I have read all books of Dan Brown..

Can the same be said about Islamic god??

Every civilization/religion goes thru 4 phase
1. Infancy: does anything grow
2. Teenage : Barbaric and cruel
3. Maturity:
4. Decline.


Christianity has passed Phase 1 and II, while Islam is still in phase II... (Think about it)

 

[shuntmaster]

Incidentally, has anyone read Angels and Demons? That one really targeted the Church as a whole. From the idea of creationism, to corruption within the Church and it's teachings.

I have not read this book. BTW.. have there been any riots and destruction and deaths due to this book?

 

[That Guy]

I have read all books of Dan Brown..

Can the same be said about Islamic god??

Every civilization/religion goes thru 4 phase
1. Infancy: does anything grow
2. Teenage : Barbaric and cruel
3. Maturity:
4. Decline.


Christianity has passed Phase 1 and II, while Islam is still in phase II... (Think about it)

The Christian and Islamic God are one and the same.

Your little table is overly simplified, religion as large as Christianity and Islam won't simply mature, decline and disappear. When your table's logic, Hinduism should have gone the way of the dodo a lot time ago, but it still remains a major religion in the world today.

I have not read this book. BTW.. have there been any riots and destruction and deaths due to this book?

Are you purposefully trying to anger me?

I'm going to ignore you now until you act a bit more mature with your comments and replies.

 

[Amaa'n]

For alk I care, change the damn title of this thread and article, Islam has nothing to do with this,, it should be renamed as Muslims at War. And why muslims are at war wuth each other? well that is a weird question, as muslims have allowed themselves to be led by bunch of stooges. It all depends on Ones's interpretation of islam and who they follow

 

[Beerbal]

The Christian and Islamic God are one and the same.

Your little table is overly simplified, religion as large as Christianity and Islam won't simply disappear. When your logic, Hinduism should have gone the way of the dodo a lot time ago, but it still remains a major religion in the world today.

Christians don't believe in Islam or Islamic gods . Yes Hinduism could have gone like dodo, but due to resilience of its followers, it is still alive...

Religion that went Dodo way
1. Parsi (only 1 Lakh member alive)
2. Judaism (less than 1% members alive)
3. Nordic
4. Roman (Jeus, Kronos, Persisus)
5. Mayan
6. Incan

etc...

One day Islam will also face the same fate, one who has born will die... (So does Hinduism)