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Islam and punishment

Never really understood why modern day clerics are so obsessed with Islamic punishments. Why do they never talk about Islamic mercy and compassion using the same holy scripture?

Such matters are beyond the understanding of dumb retards like you and me obviously. :D

Or may be the goal of said clerics is to terrorize the entire population into subjugation and not compassion or mercy at all?

We all know that 'complete control' is something humans will never master no matter how good we become technologically. In fact, we humans love losing control on our economy, politics, society time and again by actively intervening in the stock markets, rigging the elections, spreading rumors and propaganda deliberately. Of course, all such measures of taking control lead to even less control and more chaos. :lol:

Yes, but these are not mere humans you see wanting complete control, these are humans guided by the divine light and knowledge that only they possess.
 
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Or may be the goal of said clerics is to terrorize the entire population into subjugation and not compassion or mercy at all?
Well, if they had a compassionate and merciful upbringing in the Madrassas, things would have been quite different. Sadly, these Madrassas teach so much hatred that the only natural outcome for these mad Mullahs is terror and subjugation of the masses. :D

these are humans guided by the divine light and knowledge that only they possess.
It's what they believe and you of all people want to respect what others believe no matter what! :sarcastic:
 
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It is often stridently claimed that the gruesome punishments being handed out by IS are not Islamic, but is that really true? This article looks at the issue, and it should make for a good discussion:

http://www.economist.com/news/inter...ishments-are-more-prevalent-muslim-world-book

Islam and punishment
By the book
Why harsh punishments are more prevalent in the Muslim world
From the print edition

20150704_IRP002_0.jpg

Cruel, but not unusual

MUSLIMS the world over are horrified by the executions carried out by Islamic State (IS) in the name of their religion. On June 28th the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an NGO based in Britain, said it knew of more than 3,000 in the past year. More than half were of civilians—and 74, of children. Yet the self-declared caliphate is not the only Muslim “state” keen on the death penalty and other brutal punishments. At least nine countries have stoning as a judicial sentence, and five have amputation. All are Islamic.

Why? Islam’s sacred texts are not more bloodthirsty than those of Judaism or Christianity. The Old Testament names 36 misdeeds, including using magic and striking a parent, as meriting death; the Koran just two: hiraba (“spreading mischief”) and murder. It says that the family of a murder victim may forgive and therefore spare the killer. Death, stoning, amputation and lashes are reserved for a small number of serious crimes, including theft and adultery, collectively known as hudud.

Under the Ottoman empire, just one person was stoned to death in 600 years. But since the early 1970s, when only Saudi Arabia ruled according to the Koran, the trend has been for ever-harsher punishments. In 1979 post-revolutionary Iran brought in sharia (Islamic law); Pakistan, Afghanistan and Sudan soon followed. In 2014 Brunei introduced a strict sharia code; Malaysia’s opposition wants to see hudud laws enforced. “Spreading mischief”, literally meaning “waging death against Allah and his angels”, is generally now taken to include homosexuality and apostasy. Such definition-stretching is possible since Islamic law relies on not only the Koran, but also thousands of hadith—supposed sayings and doings of the Prophet Muhammad—and later scholarship. For some crimes, judges can choose to order whippings and the like, even if the Koran does not insist on it—and many do.

The intertwining of state and religion is only a partial explanation. Though all Muslim countries mention Islam in their constitutions, they differ in the weight they give it. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan regard it as the only source of law. But far more pick and mix. Egypt’s criminal code is inspired by those of Britain and France. Across much of Iraq, tribal law holds sway.

A bigger reason for reliance on bloody sentences, often carried out in public, is the instability that plagues the Islamic world. “Governments tend to use Islamic law according to their interests,” says Ahmed Taleb, a cleric in Lebanon. An ongoing flurry of death sentences in Egypt targets the Muslim Brotherhood, the main opposition. The Saudi regime must curry favour with hardline clerics, who prop it up. Jordan and Pakistan recently revived the death penalty in response to growing insecurity: Jordan after IS burned to death a pilot who crashed in Syria; Pakistan after the Taliban slaughtered children in a school.

Reformist scholars point to Koranic verses and hadith in favour of mercy, and the strict conditions set for the harshest punishments. A conviction for adultery, for example, requires eyewitness testimony from four male Muslims—a high bar. They argue that the use of religion to cloak political decisions is distorting Islam to such an extent that some rulings contradict the Koran. Today adultery is punishable by stoning, whereas the Koran prescribes 100 lashes—and 80 lashes for falsely accusing another. According to Sadakat Kadri, a barrister in London who studies Islamic law, in the seventh century, when Islam was founded, that was rather progressive.

Others argue that interpretation needs to move with the times. “History shows that the penalty is related to the circumstances of the society,” says Hossam Mekawy, an Egyptian judge. But public opinion, as well as hardline clerics, makes talk of reform difficult: a Pew survey in 2013 found that many Muslims in South Asia, the Middle East and north Africa favoured cutting off thieves’ hands and executing apostates. Governments who ease up do so de facto rather than de jure: Iran imposed a moratorium on stoning for adultery, for instance, rather than getting rid of it.

Liberal lawyers in Saudi Arabia want more penalties codified to stop judges using harsher sentences than prescribed: more than half of this year’s death sentences have been for crimes for which other sentences were available. Still, as a lawyer in Riyadh, the Saudi capital, points out, that brings you only so far. “It’s impossible to get away from the fact that the current jurisprudence says lashes, stoning and the death penalty are required in certain cases,” he says. Without open debate about crime and punishment within the Islamic world, the killing and maiming will continue.

From the print edition: International
The question is not punishment the question is that ISIS retards are not killing criminals they are killing innocents. Yes for rape and murder punishment for the onr who has done is death that to a brutal way in public so no one else dares do it. ISIS is busy slaughtering that is tottally haram in Islam. So stop twisting facts and spreading lies.
 
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well you are someone who will never content or satisfied with any answer. Its your nature :D you will jump from one question to next :P
Bible says:

"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him."
-- Proverbs 26:4 (NIV).

These wordings were slightly modified by George Carlin or Mark Twain as follows:

"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience".

There is another one by Mark Twain as follows:

"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference".

I will suggest you to pay some attention to these.
 
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What would be more interesting is punishment for apostasy as many muslims are leaving islam...but are afraid to declare in fear of the death sentence or in fear of condemnation from other muslims.
 
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What would be more interesting is punishment for apostasy as many muslims are leaving islam...but are afraid to declare in fear of the death sentence or in fear of condemnation from other muslims.
How do you know that Muslims are leaving Islam when they are afraid to declare it ?
lol
 
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How do you know that Muslims are leaving Islam when they are afraid to declare it ?
lol

I meant they don't declare in muslim countries where its death for apostasy. .elsewhere they aren't afraid. A known person who quit islam started a support group with about 35 members and growing who quit islam or are planning to do...though their problem is way different to what would be in a Muslim country..:lol:

This group is more worried about family acceptance rather than saving their head.
 
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I meant they don't declare in muslim countries where its death for apostasy. .elsewhere they aren't afraid. A known person who quit islam started a support group with about 35 members and growing who quit islam or are planning to do...though their problem is way different to what would be in a Muslim country..:lol:

This group is more worried about family acceptance rather than saving their head.
It don't matter dude as there is no compulsion in deen..if one leave Islam then 1000 join it and how many people were killed in crimes of apostasy? any statistics will be great..no judge can go in heart of people to find out what are his real beliefs in order to punish him
as far I know punishment is for traitors ..people who bash islam after leaving it and do negative campaign against Islam/Muslim country. Its not for those who just change their beliefs..
 
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It don't matter dude as there is no compulsion in deen..if one leave Islam then 1000 join it and how many people were killed in crimes of apostasy? any statistics will be great..no judge can go in heart of people to find out what are his real beliefs in order to punish him
as far I know punishment is for traitors ..people who bash islam after leaving it and do negative campaign against Islam/Muslim country. Its not for those who just change their beliefs..

There's no equation like 1 leaves it and 1000's join it. Apostasy is growing quite fast ...and plenty are disillusioned muslims as well who become apostates by heart but are afraid of their immediate society or their country laws to declare it.

Its not for those who just change their beliefs.

Are you sure?. Because that's an interesting law besides blasphemy law which are the most backward laws in Islam.
 
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It is often stridently claimed that the gruesome punishments being handed out by IS are not Islamic, but is that really true? This article looks at the issue, and it should make for a good discussion:

http://www.economist.com/news/inter...ishments-are-more-prevalent-muslim-world-book

Islam and punishment
By the book
Why harsh punishments are more prevalent in the Muslim world
From the print edition

20150704_IRP002_0.jpg

Cruel, but not unusual

MUSLIMS the world over are horrified by the executions carried out by Islamic State (IS) in the name of their religion. On June 28th the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an NGO based in Britain, said it knew of more than 3,000 in the past year. More than half were of civilians—and 74, of children. Yet the self-declared caliphate is not the only Muslim “state” keen on the death penalty and other brutal punishments. At least nine countries have stoning as a judicial sentence, and five have amputation. All are Islamic.

Why? Islam’s sacred texts are not more bloodthirsty than those of Judaism or Christianity. The Old Testament names 36 misdeeds, including using magic and striking a parent, as meriting death; the Koran just two: hiraba (“spreading mischief”) and murder. It says that the family of a murder victim may forgive and therefore spare the killer. Death, stoning, amputation and lashes are reserved for a small number of serious crimes, including theft and adultery, collectively known as hudud.

Under the Ottoman empire, just one person was stoned to death in 600 years. But since the early 1970s, when only Saudi Arabia ruled according to the Koran, the trend has been for ever-harsher punishments. In 1979 post-revolutionary Iran brought in sharia (Islamic law); Pakistan, Afghanistan and Sudan soon followed. In 2014 Brunei introduced a strict sharia code; Malaysia’s opposition wants to see hudud laws enforced. “Spreading mischief”, literally meaning “waging death against Allah and his angels”, is generally now taken to include homosexuality and apostasy. Such definition-stretching is possible since Islamic law relies on not only the Koran, but also thousands of hadith—supposed sayings and doings of the Prophet Muhammad—and later scholarship. For some crimes, judges can choose to order whippings and the like, even if the Koran does not insist on it—and many do.

The intertwining of state and religion is only a partial explanation. Though all Muslim countries mention Islam in their constitutions, they differ in the weight they give it. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan regard it as the only source of law. But far more pick and mix. Egypt’s criminal code is inspired by those of Britain and France. Across much of Iraq, tribal law holds sway.

A bigger reason for reliance on bloody sentences, often carried out in public, is the instability that plagues the Islamic world. “Governments tend to use Islamic law according to their interests,” says Ahmed Taleb, a cleric in Lebanon. An ongoing flurry of death sentences in Egypt targets the Muslim Brotherhood, the main opposition. The Saudi regime must curry favour with hardline clerics, who prop it up. Jordan and Pakistan recently revived the death penalty in response to growing insecurity: Jordan after IS burned to death a pilot who crashed in Syria; Pakistan after the Taliban slaughtered children in a school.

Reformist scholars point to Koranic verses and hadith in favour of mercy, and the strict conditions set for the harshest punishments. A conviction for adultery, for example, requires eyewitness testimony from four male Muslims—a high bar. They argue that the use of religion to cloak political decisions is distorting Islam to such an extent that some rulings contradict the Koran. Today adultery is punishable by stoning, whereas the Koran prescribes 100 lashes—and 80 lashes for falsely accusing another. According to Sadakat Kadri, a barrister in London who studies Islamic law, in the seventh century, when Islam was founded, that was rather progressive.

Others argue that interpretation needs to move with the times. “History shows that the penalty is related to the circumstances of the society,” says Hossam Mekawy, an Egyptian judge. But public opinion, as well as hardline clerics, makes talk of reform difficult: a Pew survey in 2013 found that many Muslims in South Asia, the Middle East and north Africa favoured cutting off thieves’ hands and executing apostates. Governments who ease up do so de facto rather than de jure: Iran imposed a moratorium on stoning for adultery, for instance, rather than getting rid of it.

Liberal lawyers in Saudi Arabia want more penalties codified to stop judges using harsher sentences than prescribed: more than half of this year’s death sentences have been for crimes for which other sentences were available. Still, as a lawyer in Riyadh, the Saudi capital, points out, that brings you only so far. “It’s impossible to get away from the fact that the current jurisprudence says lashes, stoning and the death penalty are required in certain cases,” he says. Without open debate about crime and punishment within the Islamic world, the killing and maiming will continue.

From the print edition: International

May I attempt to expand on this if you will allow me a moment. What a lot of observers seem to fail to notice is that Islam vis-a-vis all the other major religions is relatively new, and it has seen it's growth and expansion in relatively modern times, from the renaissance of Europe to the revolution of industry and the information super highway.

These "harsh" punishments you refer to in your thread, are these limited to Islam alone? I feel the reason Islam is always in the news for these headlines is because to put it simply: Islam is still growing and so are the communities that practice Islam. I would like to bring your attention to Purim and the Book of Esther ( was this not considered Jihad and barbaric?) similarly consider the outrageous practices of Christianity in the Middle Ages what with the witch hunts, anti science and art movement and finally not forgetting the fact that most of the worst forms of torture and capital punishment were developed by Christian nations in the middle ages.

10 Most Frightening Torture Techniques from the Middle Ages (medieval torture methods) - ODDEE

Now the thrust of my argument is simple, the nations and cultures who practice Islam are still developing, they are in the news because Islam is still an enigma to most in the west and elsewhere, there is an stoic beauty to many concepts in Islam, but why is it that only the negative aspects of Islam are always highlighted and discussed?

Why do posters such as yourself not discuss the positives? Like the fact that Muslims are considered to contribute more to charity than any other religious denomination: Muslim donors give more on average than other religious groups in the UK

Furthermore you have to understand that only 15% of the world's Muslims are Arabs, so whilst now there is this need to look to Saudi for religious guidance, as the nations that practice Islam mature and debate flourishes ( don't say it doesn't) people will start to spend more and more time thinking the actual meaning of the words uttered by the Angel Gabriel "Iqra", and there will be lesser reliance on Saudi to pass edicts to guide us.

The Quran is open to interpretation that much is true, we have to use logic and reasoning in applying the teachings of Islam. If it was permissible to fight tooth and nail with broadswords at the time then how come the keeper of the two mosques and his armies have modern equipment... Because one must adapt with the times.

Same can be said for Islamic laws and their application, in so much that their interpretation and application requires a modern re-think and not from Saudi since like I said before, only 15% of the world's Muslims are Arabs, we don't need them dictating how we should be practising our faith.

Finally and my closing statement is simple: Give Islam a chance, at present we are considered the global boogey man, the Media has always been great at this game, We have had everything from the Nazi's to USSR to Korea and now it's Islam's turn.

The only thing is that with Islam, you are not so much trying to criticise a political system or thought process, you are criticising people's way of life. And please don't give me any BS about free speech... Just type something anti-Semitic on Facebook see how quickly you get blocked, but you are free to post anything to defame Islam, are we then the children of a lesser god?

What would be more interesting is punishment for apostasy as many muslims are leaving islam...but are afraid to declare in fear of the death sentence or in fear of condemnation from other muslims.

Source... If you cannot provide a source then please stop pulling "facts" out from the sky.

How do you know that Muslims are leaving Islam when they are afraid to declare it ?
lol
He pulled the figures out of his "A$$".

Are you sure?. Because that's an interesting law besides blasphemy law which are the most backward laws in Islam.

Lol, that old chestnut, then HOW on earth do you know that "many" people are leaving, when you yourself have said they don't declare it! How do you quantify "many", who collected the "data", who verified it, who analysed it, where is it presented?

You just contradicted yourself. Next time if you don't post any links for such "facts" you will be reported.
 
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May I attempt to expand on this if you will allow me a moment. What a lot of observers seem to fail to notice is that Islam vis-a-vis all the other major religions is relatively new, and it has seen it's growth and expansion in relatively modern times, from the renaissance of Europe to the revolution of industry and the information super highway.

These "harsh" punishments you refer to in your thread, are these limited to Islam alone? I feel the reason Islam is always in the news for these headlines is because to put it simply: Islam is still growing and so are the communities that practice Islam. I would like to bring your attention to Purim and the Book of Esther ( was this not considered Jihad and barbaric?) similarly consider the outrageous practices of Christianity in the Middle Ages what with the witch hunts, anti science and art movement and finally not forgetting the fact that most of the worst forms of torture and capital punishment were developed by Christian nations in the middle ages.

10 Most Frightening Torture Techniques from the Middle Ages (medieval torture methods) - ODDEE

Now the thrust of my argument is simple, the nations and cultures who practice Islam are still developing, they are in the news because Islam is still an enigma to most in the west and elsewhere, there is an stoic beauty to many concepts in Islam, but why is it that only the negative aspects of Islam are always highlighted and discussed?

Why do posters such as yourself not discuss the positives? Like the fact that Muslims are considered to contribute more to charity than any other religious denomination: Muslim donors give more on average than other religious groups in the UK

Furthermore you have to understand that only 15% of the world's Muslims are Arabs, so whilst now there is this need to look to Saudi for religious guidance, as the nations that practice Islam mature and debate flourishes ( don't say it doesn't) people will start to spend more and more time thinking the actual meaning of the words uttered by the Angel Gabriel "Iqra", and there will be lesser reliance on Saudi to pass edicts to guide us.

The Quran is open to interpretation that much is true, we have to use logic and reasoning in applying the teachings of Islam. If it was permissible to fight tooth and nail with broadswords at the time then how come the keeper of the two mosques and his armies have modern equipment... Because one must adapt with the times.

Same can be said for Islamic laws and their application, in so much that their interpretation and application requires a modern re-think and not from Saudi since like I said before, only 15% of the world's Muslims are Arabs, we don't need them dictating how we should be practising our faith.

Finally and my closing statement is simple: Give Islam a chance, at present we are considered the global boogey man, the Media has always been great at this game, We have had everything from the Nazi's to USSR to Korea and now it's Islam's turn.

The only thing is that with Islam, you are not so much trying to criticise a political system or thought process, you are criticising people's way of life. And please don't give me any BS about free speech... Just type something anti-Semitic on Facebook see how quickly you get blocked, but you are free to post anything to defame Islam, are we then the children of a lesser god?



Source... If you cannot provide a source then please stop pulling "facts" out from the sky.


He pulled the figures out of his "A$$".



Lol, that old chestnut, then HOW on earth do you know that "many" people are leaving, when you yourself have said they don't declare it! How do you quantify "many", who collected the "data", who verified it, who analysed it, where is it presented?

You just contradicted yourself. Next time if you don't post any links for such "facts" you will be reported.


Google is a friend...Google it...don't expect me to do your bidding...contradicting myself? How?


The point is not about muslims leaving islam but about the backward laws of apostasy..If it wasn't for a law like that or blasphemy laws or adultery laws...Islamic laws wouldn't have been criticized much.
 
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This group is more worried about family acceptance rather than saving their head.
Sources...
Google is a friend...Google it...don't expect me to do your bidding...contradicting myself? How?


The point is not about muslims leaving islam but about the backward laws of apostasy..If it wasn't for a law like that or blasphemy laws or adultery laws...Islamic laws wouldn't have been criticized much.

NO, read my post when I made a statement I backed it up with a link. You must provide links, check forum rules. Did your university not teach you to cite a source or are you an authority in your own right. Please don't derail this thread any longer.

@Jango
 
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Sources...


NO, read my post when I made a statement I backed it up with a link. You must provide links, check forum rules. Did your university not teach you to cite a source or are you an authority in your own right. Please don't derail this thread any longer.

@Jango

Derail the thread? How? Isn't this about muslim laws?..ok...here's one link for you..Google the rest.

Muslim 'apostates' come out of hiding in Europe - The Times of India

What figures did I quote?..my emphasis is on the backward laws...and it's aimed at the op..nothing to do with you.
 
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Derail the thread? How? Isn't this about muslim laws?..ok...here's one link for you..Google the rest.

Muslim 'apostates' come out of hiding in Europe - The Times of India

What figures did I quote?..my emphasis is on the backward laws...and it's aimed at the op..nothing to do with you.

But you said "many" how do we quantify "many" because last I checked, Islam was still the fastest growing religion in the world. Those who feel they want to leave despite having read the revelations in the Quran ( they are free to do so, for it is them who are truly the losers in that exchange).

Also when you are talking about Islam it concerns me as a "Muslim" regardless who you direct your comment towards...
 
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It is often stridently claimed that the gruesome punishments being handed out by IS are not Islamic, but is that really true? This article looks at the issue, and it should make for a good discussion:

http://www.economist.com/news/inter...ishments-are-more-prevalent-muslim-world-book

Islam and punishment
By the book
Why harsh punishments are more prevalent in the Muslim world
From the print edition

20150704_IRP002_0.jpg

Cruel, but not unusual

MUSLIMS the world over are horrified by the executions carried out by Islamic State (IS) in the name of their religion. On June 28th the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an NGO based in Britain, said it knew of more than 3,000 in the past year. More than half were of civilians—and 74, of children. Yet the self-declared caliphate is not the only Muslim “state” keen on the death penalty and other brutal punishments. At least nine countries have stoning as a judicial sentence, and five have amputation. All are Islamic.

Why? Islam’s sacred texts are not more bloodthirsty than those of Judaism or Christianity. The Old Testament names 36 misdeeds, including using magic and striking a parent, as meriting death; the Koran just two: hiraba (“spreading mischief”) and murder. It says that the family of a murder victim may forgive and therefore spare the killer. Death, stoning, amputation and lashes are reserved for a small number of serious crimes, including theft and adultery, collectively known as hudud.

Under the Ottoman empire, just one person was stoned to death in 600 years. But since the early 1970s, when only Saudi Arabia ruled according to the Koran, the trend has been for ever-harsher punishments. In 1979 post-revolutionary Iran brought in sharia (Islamic law); Pakistan, Afghanistan and Sudan soon followed. In 2014 Brunei introduced a strict sharia code; Malaysia’s opposition wants to see hudud laws enforced. “Spreading mischief”, literally meaning “waging death against Allah and his angels”, is generally now taken to include homosexuality and apostasy. Such definition-stretching is possible since Islamic law relies on not only the Koran, but also thousands of hadith—supposed sayings and doings of the Prophet Muhammad—and later scholarship. For some crimes, judges can choose to order whippings and the like, even if the Koran does not insist on it—and many do.

The intertwining of state and religion is only a partial explanation. Though all Muslim countries mention Islam in their constitutions, they differ in the weight they give it. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan regard it as the only source of law. But far more pick and mix. Egypt’s criminal code is inspired by those of Britain and France. Across much of Iraq, tribal law holds sway.

A bigger reason for reliance on bloody sentences, often carried out in public, is the instability that plagues the Islamic world. “Governments tend to use Islamic law according to their interests,” says Ahmed Taleb, a cleric in Lebanon. An ongoing flurry of death sentences in Egypt targets the Muslim Brotherhood, the main opposition. The Saudi regime must curry favour with hardline clerics, who prop it up. Jordan and Pakistan recently revived the death penalty in response to growing insecurity: Jordan after IS burned to death a pilot who crashed in Syria; Pakistan after the Taliban slaughtered children in a school.

Reformist scholars point to Koranic verses and hadith in favour of mercy, and the strict conditions set for the harshest punishments. A conviction for adultery, for example, requires eyewitness testimony from four male Muslims—a high bar. They argue that the use of religion to cloak political decisions is distorting Islam to such an extent that some rulings contradict the Koran. Today adultery is punishable by stoning, whereas the Koran prescribes 100 lashes—and 80 lashes for falsely accusing another. According to Sadakat Kadri, a barrister in London who studies Islamic law, in the seventh century, when Islam was founded, that was rather progressive.

Others argue that interpretation needs to move with the times. “History shows that the penalty is related to the circumstances of the society,” says Hossam Mekawy, an Egyptian judge. But public opinion, as well as hardline clerics, makes talk of reform difficult: a Pew survey in 2013 found that many Muslims in South Asia, the Middle East and north Africa favoured cutting off thieves’ hands and executing apostates. Governments who ease up do so de facto rather than de jure: Iran imposed a moratorium on stoning for adultery, for instance, rather than getting rid of it.

Liberal lawyers in Saudi Arabia want more penalties codified to stop judges using harsher sentences than prescribed: more than half of this year’s death sentences have been for crimes for which other sentences were available. Still, as a lawyer in Riyadh, the Saudi capital, points out, that brings you only so far. “It’s impossible to get away from the fact that the current jurisprudence says lashes, stoning and the death penalty are required in certain cases,” he says. Without open debate about crime and punishment within the Islamic world, the killing and maiming will continue.

From the print edition: International
It is not harsh at all. :yes4: Have you forgot what happened to Banu Qurayza after battle of Uhud??

The Muslims accused the Banu Qurayza of treachery and besieged them in their forts for 25 days. The Banu Qurayza eventually surrendered; according to Ibn Ishaq, all the men apart from a few converts to Islam were beheaded, while the women and children were enslaved.
 
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