ISI has taken over GHQ

[The HBS Guy]

and who is going to discipline these un-educated & currupt politicians. and what if the civilian masters flout the orders of the judiciary, then what???

Quite a point you have and I agree with you.

Pakistan must, at all times, have the buffer of the General to fall back to in case the bloody civilians create a ruckus.

 

[lem34]

It's not an apology, national security trumps all. I have given very valid examples of free, democratic nations such as the US & UK where they have stringent anti-terrorism laws, and these do not fall under the jurisdiction of the judiciary.

The British judiciary reacted to the GCHQ case. Where Lords Fraser, Scarman and Diplock all believed that the issue of national security was outside the remit of the courts, Scarman writing that "It is par excellence a non-justiciable question. The judicial process is totally inept [sic] to deal with the sort of problems which it [national security] involves."

I know Indians would want anything that would weaken the security establishment of Pakistan, even being sympathetic to terrorists, or covering themselves in the garb of "human rights violations", but sorry, that is not going to happen.

Excellent we must keep reminding people of this. God only knows why some Pakistanis expect higher standards from our agencies than the rest of the world. I can only think they are encouraged to think like this buy the enemies of Pakistan with propaganda

 

[I M Sikander]

and who is going to discipline these un-educated & currupt politicians. and what if the civilian masters flout the orders of the judiciary, then what???

The people of Pakistan and the Judiciary are there to keep institutions within their limits. It isn't the job of PA to bring politics in discipline . Men in uniform has a duty to perform and they will be respected by all if they stick to their professional duties.
Lets not invite military to get their hands dirty in politics

 

[I M Sikander]

Excellent we must keep reminding people of this. God only knows why some Pakistanis expect higher standards from our agencies than the rest of the world.

We dont expect any thing out of this world from them. We only expect that the intelligence agencies Specially ISI And MI operate within the prescribed limits of law. They are not the jungle king to do any thing, As an institution they must abide by the law and constitution of Pakistan.

 

[lem34]

We dont expect any thing out of this world from them. We only expect that the intelligence agencies Specially ISI And MI operate within the prescribed limits of law. They are not the jungle king to do any thing, As an institution they must abide by the law and constitution of Pakistan.

This becomes a circular argument. Have some of you guys been following Cheng's school of logic. You and some on this forum are expecting simply Judiciary to trump National security. This is quite idealistic and probably the right thing. However in practical terms no country follows it including America and UK and that's why I am asking you lot why you want our boys to a higher standard than those with who they compete with

 

[pak-marine]

=somebozo;2711528]The so called "elected civilian" representatives cant:

1. Control law and order in one city of Karachi

There are 1000's of agency personal deployed in karachi (ISI , MI ) and IB , army / navy & airforce occupies a good chunck of karachi's land .. additionally there are another 1000's of rangers deployed every few kilometers in the city ... this is beside police and other law enforcement ... try doing the number genius and think of a logic for once with such heavy presence ,how come the over all law and order situation is so worst ... it only means one thing that its kept this way on purpose by the deep state.

2. Cant formulate an effective economic policy

whilst we have armed forces personal running the black milbus its impossible for civilians to run the economy as their interest and our interest are not commong

3. Cant agree on any logical decision

i have read a good percentage of your logical remarks they only make sense to you , not every place is similar to the fort where you live at .. dictators dont survive here .

4. Are taking the country to dooms days.

another one of your logic he back firing strategic assets havent taken us to dooms days its the civilians

5. Elected civilian leadership could not save breakaway east-Pakistan

After plaguing the country with dictatorship decisions ayub ,yahya & moosa hands over the power to civilians for a while and in your logic things will just change like that !! its the faujis who messed it up ... these duffers come to power screw things up whilst there when the situation is at the point of no return run back like a headless chicken to their barracks , expecting a change !!??

Dear that is not a very good treatment for your quaid, let him relax in his toilet in london

look at things in broader spectrum .. stop being a typical sucker to faujis

 

[I M Sikander]

The so called "elected civilian" representatives cant:

1. Control law and order in one city of Karachi

The city is under control dude. We know what happened on 12 May 2007 during dictator musharaf period when 52 person were killed in karachi to please this bloody Musharaf.

2. Cant formulate an effective economic policy

- Unlike musharaf era, NFC award has been formulated unanimously by mutual agreement.
- Foreign exchange reserves are 17.5+ billion dollar, never been on this level during 65 years.
- Remittances have gone up to 13 billion /each year.
- Our exports have passed 25.5 billion last year.

Economy is not very well but it isn't that bad as you expect.

3. Cant agree on any logical decision

and what are those logical decisions. Let me list some logical decisions.
- I think you mean applying article 6 on Musharaf.
- Logical decision to giving extensions to Kayani and Pasha.
- Decision to punish those who are responsible for OBL operation, mehran gate scandle, mehran base attack.
should i list soem more logical decisions.

4. Are taking the country to dooms days.

Dude which country you are talking about. Pakistan is fine

5. Elected civilian leadership could not save breakaway east-Pakistan

It was Gen. Yahya who was in command not the civilian politicians. It was Men in uniform who surrendered before General Aurora and gave guard of honor to Indian and Bangladeshi flag not the civilians.

And army is the only credible institution left with some merit

Yes you are right and according to Transparency internataional this so called credible institution is in the top ten list of Most corrupt institutions of Pakistan along with police , income tax and etc etc.

and subjugating it to same incompetent elected civilian control would mean destruction of the country to its core. We dont want hippies like IK or terrorists like Altaf and druglords like ANP to control the country only organised institution left.

If MQM and ANP are so bad then why PA coordinated with ANP during swat operation and why PA and Musharaf gave their full support to MQM during his whole dictatorship period.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the spectrum lets not forget that it were the elected civilian representatives who sold the future of American nation for the benefit of few bankers. And wherever elected representation is being discussed, one cannot forget rising and shining India which is the hotbed of "elected representation" for last 63 years.

hahaha, dude, You really need to visit some dr for mental check up . seriously.

Dear that is not a very good treatment for your quaid, let him relax in his toilet in london

Are you talking about that coward Gen. Musharaf in London or some one else.

 

[Leader]

What difference does it make? ISI and GHQ both are under Army.

It does, a doctor and a nurse, cannot switch their positions, atleast I dont want when I am the patient... similarly the intelligence wing should remain in intelligence wing and command and control wing be with operational line.

 

[BATMAN]

and who is going to discipline these un-educated & currupt politicians. and what if the civilian masters flout the orders of the judiciary, then what???

Its a sign that IK's party is infested by RAW paid moles.

Only because of presence of idiots and traitors, i don't like IK party.

 

[Leader]

and who is going to discipline these un-educated & currupt politicians. and what if the civilian masters flout the orders of the judiciary, then what???

Majority maybe uneducated and corrupt VS FA pass and corrupt Generals... (add incompetence to both parties)

however, there are number of politicians that are fully capable and civilized enough from all parties to take control of things and probably would do better...

this can be best described as "let the doctors do their job, mr compounder!!"

now on topic this is a serious issue with respect to the fact when intelligence wing assumes command of GHQ, that is power merged into one person, or fewer, it is knows as de-Institutionalization in a sense that it will give more powers to one or fewer men of the same group.

This is against the very basic principle of institutionalization...

 

[fatman17]

Majority maybe uneducated and corrupt VS FA pass and corrupt Generals... (add incompetence to both parties)

however, there are number of politicians that are fully capable and civilized enough from all parties to take control of things and probably would do better...

this can be best described as "let the doctors do their job, mr compounder!!"

now on topic this is a serious issue with respect to the fact when intelligence wing assumes command of GHQ, that is power merged into one person, or fewer, it is knows as de-Institutionalization in a sense that it will give more powers to one or fewer men of the same group.

This is against the very basic principle of institutionalization...

shows how much you know....and what intelligence wing has taken over GHQ?. ISI is made up of serving officers who rotate in-out of various ISI departments.....to gain experience just as they are appointed on various General Staff positions (to gain experience) and if selected have to have experience at Corps Level before getting the ultimate slot. at Corps or CoAS level, the man pulls all the strings - just like our Prez who after handing over powers of the president to his 'selected' PM continues to pull all the strings. its good to be a idealist (PTI supporter) but better to be a realist.

Majority maybe uneducated and corrupt VS FA pass and corrupt Generals... (add incompetence to both parties)

however, there are number of politicians that are fully capable and civilized enough from all parties to take control of things and probably would do better...

this can be best described as "let the doctors do their job, mr compounder!!"

now on topic this is a serious issue with respect to the fact when intelligence wing assumes command of GHQ, that is power merged into one person, or fewer, it is knows as de-Institutionalization in a sense that it will give more powers to one or fewer men of the same group.

This is against the very basic principle of institutionalization...

doctors without degrees

 

[BATMAN]

Majority maybe uneducated and corrupt VS FA pass and corrupt Generals... (add incompetence to both parties)

however, there are number of politicians that are fully capable and civilized enough from all parties to take control of things and probably would do better...

this can be best described as "let the doctors do their job, mr compounder!!"

now on topic this is a serious issue with respect to the fact when intelligence wing assumes command of GHQ, that is power merged into one person, or fewer, it is knows as de-Institutionalization in a sense that it will give more powers to one or fewer men of the same group.

This is against the very basic principle of institutionalization...

You truly represent the mentality of the man superseding IK in your avatar.

 

[Leader]

shows how much you know....and what intelligence wing has taken over GHQ?. ISI is made up of serving officers who rotate in-out of various ISI departments.....to gain experience just as they are appointed on various General Staff positions (to gain experience) and if selected have to have experience at Corps Level before getting the ultimate slot. at Corps or CoAS level, the man pulls all the strings - just like our Prez who after handing over powers of the president to his 'selected' PM continues to pull all the strings. its good to be a idealist (PTI supporter) but better to be a realist.



doctors without degrees

dont pick it literary, you know what the problem being discussed is !! job rotation has got nothing to do with the top hierarchy slots.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

this article is a fart of the year

ISI by its very name is an organisation made up of the 3 armed services of Pakistan and its officers are pooled from Air force, Army and Navy.

All commissioned officers get the basic intelligence & psyops training and some take further courses. the ones that show the tendency and promise are then picked up and recommended by their CO's for ISI postings where they do their tenure and then return back to their parent unit or arms.

there is nothing devious or sinister about this organisation. it does what any such organisation is meant to do from the early times of human civilization. if ISI is sinister and devious then so is the military because thats where it is pooled from and if the military is wrong then so is the population of Pakistan because thats where it is sourced from.

excluding of course the pseudo liberals and dimwits who dont know backside from elbow and are constantly writing articles like possessed minions on a mission to keep defaming the military institutions. sometimes it is the issue of its expenditure, its war on terror and then its operations.

thank your lucky stars that you are still able to fart day in and day out on web, tv channels and print media non-stop in Pakistan. had it been America then the NSA would have picked you long time ago in the name of national security and patriot act.

reminds me of someone who told me about a live telephone program on some TV channel called DM digital. where two walrus faced guests and the hosts were moaning and whining everything about Pakistan, they started from army and ISI, then its power shortage, the floods then generals and ISI and then the price hike and then army again and in between they were taking live calls where the callers were also whining and moaning about army and its expenditures and due to this the hike in petrol and food prices.

then someone called and introduced himself as some Indian Sikh and started speaking in Punjabi. he addressed the host and said.
I have been listening to your program for the past 15 mintues. I have a solution for you.
start slapping your face and yell like prostitutes. tell your other two guests as well to slap their faces with both hands and pull their hair out as well and curse themselves and cry like prostitutes....
(the caller was not cut off yet.. and the host was in complete shock)..

the Sikh continued.... saying thank goodness that we didnt come in Pakistan otherwise we would have been crying and complaining like you losers and cursing our own-selves. .. So.. please continue to slap your faces and curse yourselves ..
(the hosts and the guests remained speechless for next 20 second and then there was a break).


So my dear readers, take this example and keep slapping your faces. and do post your pictures too. I will like to enjoy that.
by the way. I already know the responses of these habitual whiners.

 

[Leader]

You truly represent the mentality of the man superseding IK in your avatar.

It is the greatest compliment, one can wish for..... Thank you