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ISI cultivated Taliban to counter Indian action against Pakistan: Musharraf

So you are now contradicting yourself? was it to stabilize afghanistan or to counter India?

Pakistan stopped supporting Afghan taliban in 2001 incase you forgot. Catching Afghan Taliban leaders and handing them over to America. Attacking them in FATA from 2002-2005. The support reinitiated in 2006-2007 when Balochistan insurgency flared up. India started training Afghan NDS who were helping Certain TTP groups. Baitullah mehsud and Mullah Faqir.

Where does I contradict myself. You are mixing up three distinct parts of history. Where Pakistan Supported, Pulled back the support but were force to re-initiate due to Indian proxy war from afghanistan
 
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Are you suffering from autism ? ISI cultivated taliban for what ? to counter Indian diplomatic corps actions eh ?

It makes me wonder sometimes, the level of IQ I have to counter in debating indians. Countrymen believe is equal to What Civilian and Military leadership is saying ?

And if you would have scroll down the link, you would have found DG ISPR blaming Indian for supporting terror groups in India.

Come out of selective denialism and quoting selective truths
Go n ask mushy why d he revealing the known facts ? He has same IQ as we....
Btw how such low IQ man was your head of armed forces ? Was he suffering autism when he revealed this shame.....?
 
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Go n ask mushy why d he revealing the known facts ? He has same IQ as we....
Btw how such low IQ man was your head of armed forces ? Was he suffering autism when he revealed this shame.....?

why don't you ask him in e-mail ?
 
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Pakistan stopped supporting Afghan taliban in 2001 incase you forgot. Catching Afghan Taliban leaders and handing them over to America. Attacking them in FATA from 2002-2005. The support reinitiated in 2006-2007 when Balochistan insurgency flared up. India started training Afghan NDS who were helping Certain TTP groups. Baitullah mehsud and Mullah Faqir.an
US military chief accuses Pakistan of backing terror group | World news | The Guardian

"Navy Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, said Pakistani duplicity puts in jeopardy not only the frayed US-Pakistani partnership against terrorism, but also the outcome to the decade-old war in Afghanistan."

"Testifying alongside Mullen, US defense secretary Leon Panetta also decried Pakistani support for the Haqqani network, and he said Pakistani authorities have been told that the US will not tolerate a continuation of the group's cross-border attacks."


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/w...attack-on-us-embassy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, went further than any other American official in blaming the ISI for undermining the American effort in Afghanistan. His remarks were certain to further fray America’s shaky relationship with Pakistan, a nominal ally.

CIA Director David Petraeus met this week with Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, chief of the ISI, to warn him against supporting the Haqqanis.

"We have credible intelligence obtained through a series of methods that directly implicate the ISI" in having "knowledge or support" for Haqqani activities, the official told CNN. "The ISI is providing financing, safe haven, advice and guidance" to the Haqqanis.
 
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Taliban for all practical means from this forum is designated in two parties, the pakistani taliban and afghan taliban.

The official stance of pakistan is that government of pakistan is at war against all forms of terrorism (except kashimiri terrorists).

The claim of quite a few member here is pakistani taliban is funded by Raw/Cia/Mossad/etc. hence are attacking pakistani assets.

Another claim is pakistani military or some of it's junior level cadre are sympathetic to the Afghan taliban who were once brother in arms.

Afghan Talban:
To understanding taliban and it's pakistani connection, we need to revisit the soviet pullout and outbreak of civil war in afghanistan. Numerous Ex-Mujhahideen commanders post soviet withdrawal found themselves in position of power and tremendous infighting had started. Ahmed shah massoud, Ahmed rashid dostum, Jalaluddin Hekmetyar, Haqqani, Abdul Rahim Wardak and Abdul Haq were few of the influential commanders of that time.

With political turmoil, a new leader Mohd Mullah Omar rose and used religious fundamentalism to futher his reach. ISI recognized, this opportunity and hordes of volunteers/students (talibs) from madarsas, most Afghan refugees and a significant amount from pakistani tribal regions (all operating under the umbrella of Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam funded by saudi oil money ) joined the effort to dislodge the communist backed government in kabul to form the so called Islamic Utopia. ISI also embedded it's military advisers and provided significant training, funding and logistical support to this effort. ISI brokered deal between this new emerging group with military factions of gulbudeen hekymatyaar and jalaudeen haqanni (all pashtun organisations). Peter Tomsen stated that up until 9/11 Pakistani military and ISI officers along with thousands of regular Pakistani armed forces personnel had been involved in the fighting in AfghanistanIn 2001 alone, according to several international sources, 28,000-30,000 Pakistani nationals, 14,000-15,000 Afghan Taliban and 2,000-3,000 Al Qaeda militants were fighting against anti-Taliban forces in Afghanistan as a roughly 45,000 strong military force.

Ref: Edward Girardet. Killing the Cranes: A Reporter's Journey Through Three Decades of War in Afghanistan (August 3, 2011 ed.)


Taliban forces backed by PA, in the course of 1994, the Taliban took control of 12 of 34 provinces not under central government control, finally attacked kabul and seized control. Ahmed Shah Massoud, the defence minister at that time retreated to Panjshir valley, which in modern history never fell either to the soviets or to the Taliban.

The Taliban, however, suffered a devastating defeat against government forces of the Islamic State under the command of Ahmad Shah Massoud. Pakistan, however, started to provide stronger military support to the Taliban. Many analysts like Amin Saikal describe the Taliban as developing into a proxy force for Pakistan's regional interests. On September 26, 1996, as the Taliban with military support by Pakistan and financial support by Saudi Arabia prepared for another major offensive, Massoud ordered a full retreat from Kabul to continue anti-Taliban resistance in the Hindu Kush mountains instead of engaging in street battles in Kabul. The Taliban entered Kabul on September 27, 1996, and established the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan



Post 9/11 Pakistan abandoned the same taliban that it had nurtured and fed for years, but Pakistani military, did know the fact that ISAF forces wouldn't stay in kabul for ever and hence ISI airlifted the most important Taliban/AQ leadership along with pakistani military operators from Konduz (Ref Air lift of evil). Leaders like Mullah omar, Al zawhiri and Bin Laden were unaccounted for. Most of top level AQ leaders that were arrested by both ISI and CIA were not found in afghanistan but in pakistan.

For pakistani military "Afghan Taliban" hols tremendous potential in case of US withdrawal and hence pakistan will not deliberately alienate the surviving leadership of Afghan Taliban.

Pakistani Taliban:

Although not much is clear about this organization, there are some frivolous claims of Pakistanis that "India finances a fundamental muslim organisation that also derives much of it's cadres from some of the groups engaged in kashmir against India". Another claim is "CIA funds the TTP to cause turmoil in pakistan" which is surprising because it seems CIA can operate with impunity targeting pakistani targets at will hence the case for arming an insurgency against pakistan seems farfetched.

A more reasonable understanding might be that, TTP is the lower level cadres of Afghan taliban which was disillusioned by pakistani tactics and brought the islamic utopia concept back to pakistan. For pakistani government taliban doctrine is profitable to export but is impossible to own as pakistani society is a moderate modern progressive islamic society. 1500 year old styled islamic sharia doesn't suit pakistan, and TTP is hell bent on bringing that on, hence now Pakistani military is trying to engage TTP, where it can diffuse the situation with talks it talks, when that doesn't work out pakistani military goes on the offensive.


So you are now contradicting yourself? was it to stabilize afghanistan or to counter India?

Dear do you think he is a school going kid who needs to get enlightened about ISI ? He is also TTA on defense site .....
Now wait for more "Black Magic Stories" from him ....
 
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Pakistan stopped supporting Afghan taliban in 2001 incase you forgot. Catching Afghan Taliban leaders and handing them over to America. Attacking them in FATA from 2002-2005. The support reinitiated in 2006-2007 when Balochistan insurgency flared up. India started training Afghan NDS who were helping Certain TTP groups. Baitullah mehsud and Mullah Faqir.

Where does I contradict myself. You are mixing up three distinct parts of history. Where Pakistan Supported, Pulled back the support but were force to re-initiate due to Indian proxy war from afghanistan

The so called "Indian Proxy War from Afghanistan" has never been proved and remains a figment of your imagination and the imagination of your military leaders. It remains a fairytale in the eyes of any reasonable person. Now, it seems that the proxy war fairytale was concocted purely to justify any support which you guys give to the Taliban. Anyway, the closeness of the relationship between the TTP and the Afgan Taliban is something for you guys to consider. Re-install the Afghan Taliban and you can be rest assured that the position of the TTP will be strengthened. Working with a double edged sword or raising snakes in your backyard can be a dangerous game
 
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US military chief accuses Pakistan of backing terror group | World news | The Guardian

"Navy Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, said Pakistani duplicity puts in jeopardy not only the frayed US-Pakistani partnership against terrorism, but also the outcome to the decade-old war in Afghanistan."

"Testifying alongside Mullen, US defense secretary Leon Panetta also decried Pakistani support for the Haqqani network, and he said Pakistani authorities have been told that the US will not tolerate a continuation of the group's cross-border attacks."


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/w...attack-on-us-embassy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, went further than any other American official in blaming the ISI for undermining the American effort in Afghanistan. His remarks were certain to further fray America’s shaky relationship with Pakistan, a nominal ally.

CIA Director David Petraeus met this week with Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, chief of the ISI, to warn him against supporting the Haqqanis.

"We have credible intelligence obtained through a series of methods that directly implicate the ISI" in having "knowledge or support" for Haqqani activities, the official told CNN. "The ISI is providing financing, safe haven, advice and guidance" to the Haqqanis.

And when did that happen? Before or After Indian proxy war started ?
 
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Dear do you think he is a school going kid who needs to get enlightened about ISI ? He is also TTA on defense site .....
Now wait for more "Black Magic Stories" .... him ....
Actually @Bratva is one of the members on the forum that i respect the most, and very well versed in the all strategic and defense topics.
The discourse with him is meaningful, and his perspective is absolutely correct from his point of view. the objective of the discourse is to understand his perspective that we do not understand very well as we are guided by our interests.
 
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Did Pakistan supported insurgencies in Nagaland, Assam, or that of Maoists ? No because it was consider indian territories upon which we have no claim. We supported Kashmir because it is disputed territory.

lol man , do u knw pak wanted to divide India immediately after the partition ?? pak provided sme 22cr and weapons to the nizam of hyderabad in 1947-48 to fight against India.

Pak did support the insurgencies in north east in the begining , but the situation changed after the formation of bangladesh..try reading this

Encyclopaedia of North-East India: Nagaland - Google Books

Social Window Of India: Insurgency in Nagaland

Pakistan and the Naxalite Movement in India | Stratfor

what do u say about pak sponsoring terror attacks on mumbai/hyderabad ?? do they have anything to do with pak insurgency..

tell me y does pak support afghan taliban while aghast TTP ?? I heard many pakistanis supportingt afg taliban saying that they stand for true Islam, isn't it the same what ttp wants ? they want pakistan to be a true islamic country, more islamic than what it is today. why this hypocricity then ??

U created these fanatics in order to wage a proxy war on India , destabilise India and divide India , If it wasn't for 9/11 pakistan's wishes would have come true..but entry of US changed the scenario completely..

Did India have any claims on FATA or on balochistan which would justify their financing of terror groups ?

There is no credible evidence to prove that India is involved in supporting these terror groups.. the head of balochistan movement stays in switzerland , while IM operatives get trained in pak..
 
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And when did that happen? Before or After Indian proxy war started ?
Irrespective of it right. If India supports the afghan government, supported by ISAF and US. Why would pakistan work against it's prime allies?
 
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now these thing will happned,
1. People who still in deninal mode (by igorance or by delibrate casue ) IGNORE it.
2. you are called as RAW agent
3. you are called as anti pakistani
4. People will say it WESTs propaganda.. how can muslim kill muslim ,, not possible.. so taliban to kill muslim NO
5. we proud of Taliban (no ttp) till it hits india
6. taliban is freedom figter (those terrrost fighting agiant india) but other who fight with pak estabhlsmet are (ttp) are terrorist

what wrong did he say ?? why did he get banned ?? :o::o:
 
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The so called "Indian Proxy War from Afghanistan" has never been proved and remains a figment of your imagination and the imagination of your military leaders. It remains a fairytale in the eyes of any reasonable person. Now, it seems that the proxy war fairytale was concocted purely to justify any support which you guys give to the Taliban. Anyway, the closeness of the relationship between the TTP and the Afgan Taliban is something for you guys to consider. Re-install the Afghan Taliban and you can be rest assured that the position of the TTP will be strengthened. Working with a double edged sword or raising snakes in your backyard can be a dangerous game

At one hand, Indian media gloats about TSD deep cover ops in Pakistan and on the other hand, People like you are in full denial and calling much more informed Generals being stupid ? Seriously ?
 
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why don't you ask him in e-mail ?
Better you should teach him RAW-raw version so that he can stop you getting embarrassed here.... Isi has many other feather in its belt ....
 
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Irrespective of it right. If India supports the afghan government, supported by ISAF and US. Why would pakistan work against it's prime allies?

When Prime allies don't care about the interests of Pakistan. Pakistan will not care about theirs as well. As stated by President musharraf.
 
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@Bratva it is interesting that you are claiming that US abandoned Afghan Taliban after 2001 and then restarted after 2005, and unless suggested otherwise, let's assume still does. Then you do accept you have good and bad taliban?
Next implications is you are accepting that pakistan uses terrorists as a state tool for it's foriegn policy objectives.

If Pakistan truly abandoned taliban in 2001, how do you explain airlift of konduz?
 
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