ISI “biggest violators” of law

[deckingraj]

I wish you would read all the posts before commenting I said in an earlier post:

Its a shame our judiciary cant behave more like western judiciary. There is something known as national security and they would do well to remember how British judiciary reacted to the GCHQ case. Where Lords Fraser, Scarman and Diplock all believed that the issue of national security was outside the remit of the courts, Scarman writing that "It is par excellence a non-justiciable question. The judicial process is totally inept [sic] to deal with the sort of problems which it [national security] involves"

ISI are the guardians of our security and should be given praise and not so openly maligned.

I have and in fact responded to them as well...I agree that national security is outside the realm of judicial system...but nothing is above the law....In short if you feel that current laws are not enough to deal with the menace the create a new law...we have one controvertial law in the name of AFSPA...though even in that one fair trial is a must...

I am still in shock that such a basic premise of being a civilized nation is being broken and netizens are vehemently supporting it..Buddy there are rotten apples everywhere....Think about those who may be facing the wrath of such officers under the guise of national security....For the nth time - Fair trial is a basic right...

 

[deckingraj]

Intel is protecting national security, the tough words by the CJ will not change the fact - that he does realize the value of our Spooks - we are not afraid of oversight. But in the world of cloak and dagger - things are often grey.

CJ is the pinnacle of your judicial system...sorry to say but seems you guys have still a long way to go before you realize that most important and strongest organization of a country should be her judicial system...

 

[Free Soul]

@deckingraj please don't try to play smart, our judicial system is far better than yours. there is always room for improvement in any system or society. care to go through the rest of the thread? many have already addressed your so called concerns regarding our courts and ISI.

our SC and judicial system with all its flaws is far better than your farce of a judicial system -and ISI would do what it does, our CJ courts and ISI don't give a slightest thought to what India would find acceptable.

 

[rabia kashmiri]

no no no
not at all.
ISI matter something very very Pakistan's internal matter.don't take interest in it.we are here to resolve this.don't u worry.huh

 

[deckingraj]

@deckingraj please don't try to play smart, our judicial system is far better than yours. there is always room for improvement in any system or society. care to go through the rest of the thread? many have already addressed your so called concerns regarding our courts and ISI.

our SC and judicial system with all its flaws is far better than your farce of a judicial system -and ISI would do what it does, our CJ courts and ISI don't give a slightest thought to what India would find acceptable.

Sorry to say but what a kiddish reply.....Anyhow there are tons of Fanboys on both sides of the border and i should not be surprised......It is typical but disgusting mentality that No matter how wrong is my side i should still be proud of it because i am better then yours....Idiots!!!!

I am in no mood to discuss whose judicial systems is better....i have already raised my points and the pinnacle of that is everyone has the right for a fair trial...In case you have something to discuss in response to it then please otherwise minimum you can do is not to issue blanket statements especially if they are flame baits(my d!ck is bigger then yours)

@Members
*******************
Is there anyone who thinks everyone deserves a free trial even if he/she is hard core terrorist???

 

[Awesome]

This happens all the time in the West. The minute National Security is cited Judges refuse to comment. Why must Pakistan's security apparatus be judged by a higher standard to what exists in the rest of the world

Because in the west when they implicate their own citizens of a crime, it still has to be proven. This is ghatiya standard of our agencies who can't do their due diligence of crime scene investigation (how many bomb culprits have they caught? Indians came into our country and presented undeniable proof of the guilt of our people after their investigation), they can't prove anyone, toh bass jugga shahi karni hai, pharka doh.

Detain people for sometime but ultimately you must get evidence against them or they should walk. ISI arrested them, beat them to the pulp, imagine someone gets their bones turned into halwa for mere accusations.

The way ISI operates - it won't survive. When CIA agents do something, they are told you would be disavowed if you are caught and the agency themselves would screw you over if you are implicated. This way they remain answerable to courts and have to cover their behinds before doing such things. This also results in them being better at their jobs and targeting only the truly guilty.

 

[deckingraj]

Because in the west when they implicate their own citizens of a crime, it still has to be proven. This is ghatiya standard of our agencies who can't do their due diligence of crime scene investigation (how many bomb culprits have they caught? Indians came into our country and presented undeniable proof of the guilt of our people after their investigation), they can't prove anyone, toh bass jugga shahi karni hai, pharka doh.

Detain people for sometime but ultimately you must get evidence against them or they should walk. ISI arrested them, beat them to the pulp, imagine someone gets their bones turned into halwa for mere accusations.

The way ISI operates - it won't survive. When CIA agents do something, they are told you would be disavowed if you are caught and the agency themselves would screw you over if you are implicated. This way they remain answerable to courts and have to cover their behinds before doing such things. This also results in them being better at their jobs and targeting only the truly guilty.

Thanks a ton for saying this....i was at loss of words to convince these chaps that putting people to trial is a responsibility that ISI(even if they have noble deeds) cannot shun away from....

 

[niaz]

Minor technical grounds? They didn't have ANY evidence to hold them and could not quote a single law which would declare them guilty.

What more proof is needed than fighting PA commandos with guns? Still all the Lal Masjid mob is released and Mulla Abdul Aziz is free. Would you call this 'No evidence at all'?

Let us face it. Just like many in Pakistan society, some judges including the CJ appears to have soft corner for the terrorists who claim to fight for Islam. Pakistan state be damned! Hurrah for the jihadist.

 

[Awesome]

What more proof is needed than fighting PA commandos with guns? Still all the Lal Masjid mob is released and Mulla Abdul Aziz is free. Would you call this 'No evidence at all'?

Let us face it. Just like many in Pakistan society, some judges including the CJ appears to have soft corner for the terrorists who claim to fight for Islam. Pakistan state be damned! Hurrah for the jihadist.

Abdul Aziz was released on the charge of conspiring to murder people, to kidnap people and to inciting hate speech. The genius people at the security agencies did not levy the charge of him combating the Pakistan Army. Obviously they wanted him freed. The nincompoops the same gaff with Raymond Davis.

Still on that he has been released on bail.

Coming back to THIS case.

In this case, who have the geniuses at ISI arrested? Book stall wala, ambulance driver. Charge? On the book stall there were some jihadist material which made the 'geniuses' say "Yaar yeh bhi jihadi hi hoga". The ambulance driver, he was transporting some low level militant to a hospital as part of his duty.

It's all jugga shahi, Niaz sahab. Aao dekho na tao. Throw people in jail, why do extra effort and do our due diligence? It's their daddy's country.

 

[53fd]

It's sad that 'senior' members here can't get past whatever grudges they have against the ISI. When the ISI is accused by the West of supporting militants, they blow their trumpet, but when the ISI does an impeccable job of capturing militants, they accuse them of human rights violations. It's unfortunate that they have to be given 'proof' that Abdul Aziz & Malik Ishaq are terrori*ts, that the spike in violence is because the courts free every 3 out of 4 terrorists captured by the LEAs & ISI. It's unfortunate that we think all of our problems are caused by the US when there are people sitting on this very forum supporting extremists & extremist ideologies, & in favor of acquitting known criminals & terrori*ts in the garb of 'human rights violations'. Where are the human rights violations when these militants kill other people? And I can guarantee that the ISI/security forces/Pakistan Army have far less extremist sympathizers in their ranks than the judiciary does.

Btw, this is what is happening in the US, what they do for their security even though they claim to be a free nation providing justice. They also have an impeccable record of tackling terrorism:

BBC News - US Attorney General justifies terrorism kill policy

 

[Rafi]

^^^^^
Just backing up what Bilal has said, the US has given a licence to kill it's own citizens overseas, if deemed a national security threat, without due process.

 

[Awesome]

It's sad that 'senior' members here can't get past whatever grudges they have against the ISI.

Why should I have any grudges against the ISI - grudge implies a personal reason, I'm deploring their actions for national reasons - surely it can't be in the interest of this nation where the ISI is now kidnapping people - beating them to the pulp (many of the people presented in court could hardly walk).

With all due respect, we as Pakistani citizens are duty bound to uphold, protect and abide by the law of Pakistan. If you're saying today that law goes out the window, then sir without the law they are not terrorists, the Iftikhar Chowdhary is not a judge, ISI is not a security agency and you're not a Pakistani.

You must remain true to a standard Pakistan, not an arbitrary Pakistan.

 

[Awesome]

^^^^^
Just backing up what Bilal has said, the US has given a licence to kill it's own citizens overseas, if deemed a national security threat, without due process.

The first person the US killed in this manner was that Imam dude from DC they got from Yemen. Then too he was killed during ongoing operations - he may have been targeted but it was in a warzone area - much similar to Bugti's killing which I don't dispute, either and believe that was lawful - kidnappings is not.

Moreover did you see the fallout the US had to bear, their media debated this new precedent time and again that how was a US citizen killed without due process or at least trying to arrest him.

This was a clear cut case - thats why violation of the law got subsided, it shouldn't have been, but US is not perfect either - let them make some mistakes, you'll see how their own media catches them by the neck.

 

[Pak47]

Lol.. What intelligence agency follows the law?

 

[Awesome]

Lol.. What intelligence agency follows the law?

No agency gets away with it after violating laws in a court of law.

The point you guys are not understanding is that the agency disavows any agent as rogue if the agent screws up. But the agency itself doesn't say "Yeah I did it, so what?"

In Pakistan ISI tried to do just that.