ISI “biggest violators” of law

[fd24]

Its a shame our judiciary cant behave more like western judiciary. There is something known as national security and they would do well to remember how British judiciary reacted to the GCHQ case. Where Lords Fraser, Scarman and Diplock all believed that the issue of national security was outside the remit of the courts, Scarman writing that "It is par excellence a non-justiciable question. The judicial process is totally inept [sic] to deal with the sort of problems which it [national security] involves"

ISI are the guardians of our security and should be given praise and not so openly maligned.

Agree. Sometime mistakes are made and the ISI may be making the odd error but i strongly believe if it wasnt the outstanding good this organisation was doing our nation wouldnt exist. I love the fact the ISI is hated by other nations - shows how good a job they do. They are here to protect the nation and thats what they do. Errors occur - thats because we are all humans and misjudgements occur - long live ISI - and long may they keep the enemy in check..

 

[Awesome]

In this particular case I am with ISI and against the courts. Cases are thrown out on minor technical grounds such as that name of the accused was not mentioned in the original FIR or that FIR was registered too late! Pray tell me how can you name the person when you don’t know who has done it?

This has been borne true by the number of people who are obviously guilty of terrorism go scot free. Case of Lal Masjid is a glaring example of partiality of the court towards the criminals. Didn’t everyone see that these people were fighting the State of Pakistan with gun? What other proof is needed?

However leader of the group Mulla Abdul aziz is free will soon be leading the prayers again. I would put the blame squarely on the courts for letting the know criminals to perpetrate the crime again. Blood of a lot of innocent Pakistanis is on the neck of our inept police and so called guardians of justice. To a casual observer it would appear that Pakistan Courts in general and Supreme Court in particular is partial to terrorists and ignores the plight of innocent victims.

We will never get rid of the sectarain and suicide bomber menace until such time the Courts stop releasing thousands of known terrorists on technicality.

Minor technical grounds? They didn't have ANY evidence to hold them and could not quote a single law which would declare them guilty.

 

[lem34]

Minor technical grounds? They didn't have ANY evidence to hold them and could not quote a single law which would declare them guilty.

This happens all the time in the West. The minute National Security is cited Judges refuse to comment. Why must Pakistan's security apparatus be judged by a higher standard to what exists in the rest of the world

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

If those picked by ISI are not innocents, then according to the law, ISI will have to prove it in the courts. It is as simple as that.

You cannot detain people for indefinite time just because you had a hunch that they were terrorists. It is time that we as a nation get our priorities right which in this case is letting the courts decide about the fate of those missing persons.

What about Taliban commander released by court due to no prove, ISI is doing correct and big savior of Pakistan otherwise court was not hesitating to release Taliban.

 

[lem34]

What about Taliban commander released by court due to no prove, ISI is doing correct and big savior of Pakistan otherwise court was not hesitating to release Taliban.

The problem we have is that our Judiciary simply is not as mature as it possibly could be. They should know what is outside their remit.

 

[Free Soul]

Courts failing The Victims

For past twenty yers, the anti-terrorism courts (ATC) in Punjab alone failed to convict the accused in 74 per cent of the 311 cases in which a final verdict was delivered.

Most of the accused were acquitted not because they were able to demonstrate and/or substantiate their innocence, but because the judicial system in Pakistan is not capable of handling terrorism cases where prosecution’s case rests on circumstantial and forensic evidence, and not on the eyewitness account.

In 36 per cent of the cases, the courts acquitted the accused because they were not personally named in the FIR. How lame can sometimes our courts could be. How can one ascertain the identity of the accused immediately after the terrorist attack when the FIR is registered?

In most instances in a terrorist attack, FIRs are registered against unknown accused, which should not be the reason for the courts to acquit the accused because their identity was not known to the police or to the victims the very second the attack took place.

GHQ attacks – Mosque near GHQ attack – two serving Generals were killed, and countless more attacks on civilians and military, we have lost count. There has been high percentage of re-offending terrorists that were captured again and put in-front of court.

After CJ was reinstated, he on purpose and to settle scores with Musharraf and army released Lal Masjid Terrorists that were arrested caught red handed with guns. All on camera too.

 

[AHMED85]

So what you think the ISI make the justice with you than sorry to say i Remember the quotation of my friend

"You want the truth!?" "I think I'm entitled!" "SON, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! " - A few good men..

 

[deckingraj]

The problem we have is that our Judiciary simply is not as mature as it possibly could be. They should know what is outside their remit.

Wow..and i must say wow....So asking for a fair trial of people picked up by ISI is being immature??? Even if people who are picked up by ISI are hard core terrorists they still deserve a fair trial...This is what a nation who is not a banana republic is supposed to do...I don't think our records is better then yours when it comes to fair trial but blind support to such an extent is stupid and a sin for someone who is educated....

b/w kasab who was caught red handed still got a trial...not boasting about it but just giving an example...Even hard core terrorists deserves a fair trial..period!!!

 

[lem34]

And how many times have you screamed bloody blue murder against the GITMO episodes?

Mate you are going off topic as per norm for you. Back to topic it is common for countries and their judiciaries to put National Interest first. Something which Pakistani judiciary needs to recognise

---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

Wow..and i must say wow....So asking for a fair trial of people picked up by ISI is being immature??? Even if people who are picked up by ISI are hard core terrorists they still deserve a fair trial...This is what a nation who is not a banana republic is supposed to do...I don't think our records is better then yours when it comes to fair trial but blind support to such an extent is stupid and a sin for someone who is educated....

b/w kasab who was caught red handed still got a trial...not boasting about it but just giving an example...Even hard core terrorists deserves a fair trial..period!!!

I love our ISI even more when I see Indians who have no good thoughts for Pakistan trying to condemn our ISI. ISI must be doing something right to rile enemies of our nation

 

[karan.1970]

Mate you are going off topic as per norm for you. Back to topic it is common for countries and their judiciaries to put National Interest first. Something which Pakistani judiciary needs to recognise

And you are failing to grasp the essence of a post that does not conform to your set of beliefs. Which is a norm for you and a lot of other Pakistani members on this forum. How is USA's usage of GITMO prison and racial profiling of Muslims and conducting special screening of Muslims, which Pakistanis on this forum object to in a single voice, any different from what ISI is being accused of doing. ? Hypocrisy !!! anyone??

btw, I would ask you if you still hold the same belief if your brother or father was similarly made to disappear...

 

[deckingraj]

I love our ISI even more when I see Indians who have no good thoughts for Pakistan trying to condemn our ISI. ISI must be doing something right to rile enemies of our nation

Again what kind of weird logic is that...We will always hate ISI as much as you will hate RAW...However how does that negate the fact that people deserves a fair trial??? Answer that part rather then repeating the same thing...

 

[F.O.X]

ISI very well has the authority to detain anyone they think is or will be responsible for destabilizing the Nation . What Mr. so called chief justice dont understand is that sitting is AC rooms & being guarded by 100's of men is different from going into enemy lines knowing that if you are caught your enemy will make you suffer worse then death itself .

Sometimes i really am amazed by the people of this country , if something is not what they want then it must be wrong , and since ISI refuses to answer to scums like these they made ISI into a monster that will eat up anything .

Even though i agree with the statement of Innocent until proven guilty , sometimes you cannot prove or have the reasons you cannot made public , there are sources you cannot revel , however people dont understand it, do you really think ISI has either time or luxury to detain anyone they seem fit ? that is what you have regular police , FIA & CIA for.

Currently ISI is Fighting .

1. CIA
2. RAW
3. mi6
4. Mossad
5. TTP
6. Internal destabilizing factors
7. KHAD
8. BLA
9. and many more .

give me an example of even one Intelligence agency who is involved in so many battles with so limited resources & still holding their own, as always we Pakistani's only value something when we have lost it , if you say no one is above the law then who is the to judge the Law .

I am Truly Disappointed with those who dont trust eyes of their own country.

 

[rajnikant]

u guys r hedging 2 many bets on ISI..dont put all the eggs in a one basket...frm members here it gives the feeling tht isi is doing the local police work 2..as u guys dnt belieeve any other institution in pakistan..isi says gospel truth..lol..ab to rab hi raakha.

 

[Free Soul]

Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and the convenient “lack of evidence”

Malik Ishaq the influential co-founder of a Sipah-e-Sahaba breakaway group Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (funny thing is this group is called the armed and aggressive wing of Sipah-e-Sahaba as if the former was anything but not armed and aggressive) LeJ the now linked with al Qaeda and the Taliban

Malik Ishaq had told an Urdu daily in October 1997 that he was involved in the killing of 102 people. He was arrested the same year, and eventually much later charged with 70 of those murders in 44 different cases, including the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in March 2009. I think in july 2011, the Supreme Court released him because of “lack of evidence”. What can SC do if there isn’t much evidence to convict?

Among those who feared the consequences was Fida H. Ghalvi, a key witness in a case in which Ishaq was accused - of killing 12 members of a family belonging to a minority Muslim sect in 1997. When Ghalvi and three other men identified Ishaq, now think of our CJs remarks about our agencies and military keeping in mind violation of law.
Once Malik Ishaq was identified in court, he turns to the witnesses and tells them in front of a judge that “dead men can’t talk”. Five witnesses and three of their relatives were killed during the trial. Ishaq was acquitted because of “lack of evidence”.

I do not know for certain if Ghalvi was also killed or not – but know for sure that Ishaq was acquitted.

But behold this is nothing in comparison to endless such belligerent acts. A more or less similar remarkable case (involving the sectarian/terrorist leader from southern Punjab) was the bombing of an foreign culture centre in Multan, also in 1997. Eight people were killed. When investigating officer Ijaz Shafi persuaded two witnesses to appear in court, the investigating officer’s car was sprayed with 13 bullets. Anti-Terrorism Court judge Bashir Ahmed Bhatti convicted Ishaq but the Supreme Court overturned the conviction in 2006 because of “lack of evidence”.

I can’t say much. So much so that I take these things on the chin, and think that we Pakistani have conditioned our hearts our minds our souls to these acts, to us it seems as a Norm.

ISI will do what it does, CJ should do what he is doing, the issue of convicting Terrorists on bases of evidence and what evidence counts - needs to be looked at.

And for my Indian friends who are jumping with joy that CJ has remarked on the matter. Our SC is not hypocrite like yours. ISI does what MOSAD, RAW and CIA does but the difference is your SC would never take on the perpetrators of crimes committed in Punjab and against Naxalites. Our courts even though not perfect but are far better than the joke that is India

 

[haviZsultan]

ISI very well has the authority to detain anyone they think is or will be responsible for destabilizing the Nation . What Mr. so called chief justice dont understand is that sitting is AC rooms & being guarded by 100's of men is different from going into enemy lines knowing that if you are caught your enemy will make you suffer worse then death itself .

Sometimes i really am amazed by the people of this country , if something is not what they want then it must be wrong , and since ISI refuses to answer to scums like these they made ISI into a monster that will eat up anything .

Even though i agree with the statement of Innocent until proven guilty , sometimes you cannot prove or have the reasons you cannot made public , there are sources you cannot revel , however people dont understand it, do you really think ISI has either time or luxury to detain anyone they seem fit ? that is what you have regular police , FIA & CIA for.

Currently ISI is Fighting .

1. CIA
2. RAW
3. mi6
4. Mossad
5. TTP
6. Internal destabilizing factors
7. KHAD
8. BLA
9. and many more .

give me an example of even one Intelligence agency who is involved in so many battles with so limited resources & still holding their own, as always we Pakistani's only value something when we have lost it , if you say no one is above the law then who is the to judge the Law .

I am Truly Disappointed with those who dont trust eyes of their own country.

I agree with the bold part. The courts have released one in four militants free caught in military operations across the country. The Pakistani army has the exact same complaint, militants captured in the field of battle are set free by the courts.

Lets go back to the Lal Masjid event. A lot of the men who took part in the battle are free today and I am telling you most of them went to Swat and joined the militancy there which started soon after the Lal Masjid siege under Maulana Fazlullah.

There have been acknowledged cases where Judges and lawyers have been threatened by militants into freeing their fellow militants caught in military operations. Doctors are being kidnapped from Peshawar by the militants.

Sometimes you cannot prove in the court of law that a person is guilty but you know he is guilty and setting him free may result in the death of civilians. In such a case our Intelligence agency will face a difficult choice.

I still believe though that we need to rethink our Balochistan policy. We aren't doing the best thing back there. Sometimes tolerating dissent is better than kidnapping and killing and making it turn into a rebellion. We need to rethink our Balochistan policy