Is VTOL possible on dual engine ?

[WarFariX]

I was wondering a scenerio ( please this scenerio is just stupid example and dont quote it in further posts rather take this concept as point of discussion) that since FC-31V2 doesnt have foldable wings , so WHATIF china uses v1 dual engine to test VTOL like f-35b . Also could it accomodate TVC at the same time for STOVL?

 

[WarFariX]

@Windjammer @MastanKhan @araz @grey boy 2 @Beast @Oscar @Horus

 

[Hassan Guy]

Yeah it is.

Not sure about J-31 tho.

 

[WarFariX]

Yeah it is.

Not sure about J-31 tho.

explain with aerodynamics plz

 

[Hassan Guy]

explain with aerodynamics plz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-38

 

[MastanKhan]

@Windjammer @MastanKhan @araz @grey boy 2 @Beast @Oscar @Horus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-38

Hi,

Technically---yes---. But actually---maybe not---. What if one engine fails---you lose the jet---and maybe the pilot---.

Here is the quote from wiki

" The Yak-38 possessed an automatic ejection seat. If one of the takeoff engines failed, once the aircraft rolled past 60 degrees the pilot was automatically ejected from the aircraft ".

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

VTOL , is not rocket science , Russian did it best
Yakovlev Yak-141

This same technolgy was adapted in the F-35

If we look at this design , the problem I think with Duel Engines is that both rear engines will have to move and produce power in complete synchronized fashion , to maintain balance of the plane

Any change in power will shake the balance

F-35 is shown below

For twin engine , the fans could just be integrated into the wings
For a precision landing would imagine some adjustments so plane can move
forward back sideways while in VTOL mode

Also lot of other challenges , such as with 2 engines the weight in read would be greater vs lets say front of plane etc

So it explains the "high cost" for F-35

Drones do display how any thing can be lifed "if you can imagine in your head the camera is a plane"

Now imagine our normal Thunder, connected to this drone at its spine

Even the JF-17 can become a VTOL craft , if it is wrapped wround by a gigantic VTOL machine (Drone) , not sure what it would mean for the dog fight capabilities of the plane

May be if the 4 drone engine propellars can fold like Umberalle and disappear into the compartments , now that would be something , while the rear engines (traditional engines would take over horizontal flight)

With F-35 the goal has been to embed the VTOL tech into the body of the plane vs have it present externally

 

[WarFariX]

Hi,

Technically---yes---. But actually---maybe not---. What if one engine fails---you lose the jet---and maybe the pilot---.

Here is the quote from wiki

" The Yak-38 possessed an automatic ejection seat. If one of the takeoff engines failed, once the aircraft rolled past 60 degrees the pilot was automatically ejected from the aircraft ".

hmm thnx very much ... @Deino sir do u find anything interesting here ?

VTOL , is not rocket science , Russian did it best
Yakovlev Yak-141

This same technolgy was adapted in the F-35

If we look at this design , the problem I think with Duel Engines is that both rear engines will have to move and produce power in complete synchronized fashion , to maintain balance of the plane

Any change in power will shake the balance

F-35 is shown below

For twin engine , the fans could just be integrated into the wings
For a precision landing would imagine some adjustments so plane can move
forward back sideways while in VTOL mode

Also lot of other challenges , such as with 2 engines the weight in read would be greater vs lets say front of plane etc

So it explains the "high cost" for F-35

Drones do display how any thing can be lifed "if you can imagine in your head the camera is a plane"

ohh how did i forget yak 141..thnx very much

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Never forget Russian contribution to Aviation , most of the stealth tech is from research / math work by Russian PHD

 

[Hassan Guy]

Why would China even need a VTOL fighter?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Why would China even need a VTOL fighter?

for their future nuclear AIRCRAFT CARRIER

 

[gambit]

Never forget Russian contribution to Aviation , most of the stealth tech is from research / math work by Russian PHD

Wrong. It came from US.

VTOL , is not rocket science , Russian did it best

No. The US did it best.

The Yak-141 used multiple engines. The front engines were for lift, a mode of operation that is brief in flight. The rear engine was for both vertical lift and flight.

Remember, in aviation, weight is always a penalty.

The F-35 method is the better in terms of weight saving. Since vertical lift is used in only a small portion of the aircraft's entire flight time, the goal should be to generate that lifting power from as simple a source as possible. Running a shaft from the main engine to a vertical lift fan was the ideal and best solution.

 

[volatile]

VTOL , is not rocket science , Russian did it best
Yakovlev Yak-141

This same technolgy was adapted in the F-35

If we look at this design , the problem I think with Duel Engines is that both rear engines will have to move and produce power in complete synchronized fashion , to maintain balance of the plane

Just to add Lockheed Martin was development partner ,infact F35 most of the VTOL work was based on very foundations of this bird .

http://aviationintel.com/yak-141-freestyle-the-f-35b-was-born-in-moscow/

 

[WarFariX]

Why would China even need a VTOL fighter?

possibly for this

Just like US wants VTOL F-35B for US marines Amphibious carriers , same way china can use VTOL to station 2-3 jets at its amphibious carriers so runways would also be not required...This scenerio would be more usefull when PLAN makes it roots more deep in the world just like US NAVY has influence throughout the world...the pic shows 2 J20 stationed at amphibious carrier
Link of video

 

[Oldman1]

Just to add Lockheed Martin was development partner ,infact F35 most of the VTOL work was based on very foundations of this bird .

http://aviationintel.com/yak-141-freestyle-the-f-35b-was-born-in-moscow/

Actually wrong. It goes way further back based on American idea.

http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=10553
The Convair Model 200 was a 1973 design similar in some respects to the F-35. While stealth was lacking, it was designed as a single-engined jet fighter than could be built in both VTOL and CTOL (Model 201A) configurations. For VTOL, the single Pratt & Whiteny JTF22A-30A was equipped with a nozzle that could vector down 90 degrees (as the F-35 engine does), and had an additional two 10,500 pound-thrust lift engines behind the cockpit (the F-35 has a single lift jet). The CTOL versions eliminated the lift jets and the engine nozzle vectoring. Top speed was about Mach 2. Span was 27 ft 10.5 in; length was 51 ft 1.5 in.

The Model 200 was put forward in a US Navy competition for a smallish VTOL fighter than could be carried by the Sea Control Ship, the small aircraft carriers the Navy was planning at the time. Niether the Model 200 nor the SCS were built; but a competitor to the Model 200, the Rockwell XFV-12, was built… and failed miserably.


Difference was that the Russians actually made it worked based on American design. Hence Lockheed which didn't have such an aircraft at the time decided to get the information about the Yak version.

I was wondering a scenerio ( please this scenerio is just stupid example and dont quote it in further posts rather take this concept as point of discussion) that since FC-31V2 doesnt have foldable wings , so WHATIF china uses v1 dual engine to test VTOL like f-35b . Also could it accomodate TVC at the same time for STOVL?