Is this the end of Islam? or there is some silver-lining?

[AugenBlick]

I just see a downward spiral, and it goes something like this

Islamic country in trouble due to fundamentalism(no rights, no innovation , genocides etc.)----> Get f***ked on the international stage because you are weak or your evil designs -----> Superficial introspection and playing victim game -----> Somebody comes up with "This is not true Islam, they are not real muslims" ----> More "Islam" gets added because islam is nothing but good ----> More fundamentalism ---->cycle repeats.

Since nobody questions the common thread in all these countries i.e. Islam .... there is no end to this cycle.

 

[rmi5]

it depends on your view point.
for shias, they were always oppressed by sunnis, which is a very well documented fact, and they were always suffering from the secterianism. After Safavids, this systematic oppression against them stopped, since they had strong empires which were officially supporting them. So, for shias, now, they have Iran, Iraq, Azerbaijan governments, and except for bahrain, and hazara people (afghanistan/pakistan) rest of them are fine.
for Sunnis, the situation is different among different ethnicities. Sunni turkics, are mostly having secular governments and they are fine. but, others, specially arabs, have deep problems, which its roots is more related to their culture, and illiteracy, ... than religion.

 

[punit]

From Morocco to Indonesia, or say from Atlantic to Pacific, entire Islamic World is up in flames, or in poverty, or under despotic oppressive governments...and Muslim masses are in misery, and utter hopelessness. Syria and Iraq are totally destroyed by civil war, superpowers have invaded, plundered, and destroyed many nations of Islamosphere. Israel is currently bombing Gaza, a territory it already illegally occupies and has colonized it for decades. On political front, Muslim masses are deeply divided and there is no order. From the dreams of Islamic Caliphate, to the vision of extreme secularism--all of the political thoughts are colliding within the fold of Islam. Muslims are globally being painted as "the problem" or as the "other" in the equation of civilized vs the other. Seems like entire world is on one side, and Muslims are on other. Any hope of empowerment due to revolutions in Arab World are turned completely upside down---with even status-quo forces returning back to power with even worse oppression.

I was just wondering, is this the worst Islam/Islamic World has ever seen? People would bring Mongol Destruction but as a student of history, I'd not buy this argument. Mongol Destruction of Baghdad just shifted the power-center of Islam from Arab-Persians to Turks. Even after Mongol destruction, Islamic World quickly regained its position of being the superpower/top dog of the world under the leadership of the Islamic Turks (Ottoman Empires, Mughals, Timurids etc were the greatest/most-powerful/largest empires of their time...and all established by Islamic Turks). Islamic World remained the most and/or one-of-the-most powerful civilization on Earth for centuries to come after Mongol invasion. But today, forget about being the most powerful, Muslim countries are marching towards being the worst, the least powerful, and most pathetic amongst all available competition (China, India, Europe/America (West), Latin America, and Far East etc).

So again, are we living through the worst of Islam today? There seems to be no hope. No sight of recovering back. Things are getting worse and even more worse by the hour. Just today, read the article where Prince Bandar was quoted saying "1 billion Sunnis have had enough of the Shia. There will be a time when "May God help the Shia" would be reality in Middle-East" (He said it to American Intelligence Chief before 9/11. I guess those days have come).

Add to all that the sectarian hate and intra-Muslim bloodshed. Sectarian hate and intra-Muslim conflict has never been more worse than its today. And this is the time when when millions of Muslims have already been killed in past 50 years due to internal civil wars and outside invasions and so on.

So, is it the worse of Islam the history has ever seen? Is is the end of Islam beyond the point of recovery? Or is there any silver-lining out there for Muslims of the world?

(Please no mudslinging with secular vs Islamist one-liners etc. Try to be more critical in your responses).


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@gambit I'd also like to hear what do you have to say about the issue..

---------------------

Please keep this as troll-free as possible.

Stop Living in Past Glories. That era is gone and is not coming back. This is the era of nation states and alliance of nation states. Knowledge, education and wisdom are the most powerful tools of this era.

 

[Hyperion]

Wisdom, not that much...... it's mostly about being able to project power...........

This is the era of nation states and alliance of nation states. Knowledge, education and wisdom are the most powerful tools of this era.

 

[punit]

ISLAM ZINDA HOTA HAI HAR KARBALA KAY BAAD....

now days even the tragedy of karbala is being mocked by some thekedars of Islam. Some self declared khalifa are threatening to destroy karbala.

Wisdom, not that much...... it's mostly about being able to project power...........

power projection is nothing but wisdom applied in evil ways !

 

[ranjeet]

Arabs and Persians are at each other's throat since early times and its still going on, but unfortunately this power struggle has been painted in a religious/sectarian color to garner more support for the respective side. Fringe groups being propped up to do the dirty work from each side and misquoting Quran to justify their misdeeds. And the moderate muslims find themselves inadequate to confront such groups, and disapprove them ideologically rather than being defensive.

Petrodollars have further added more fuel to this simmering struggle. If a man has worked hard to earn money he knows the importance of it and respect the prosperity it brought to him, whereas if one wins a huge lottery he might get suckered into spending lavishly and selfishly. And both groups are guilty of using the petrodollars to increase their sphere of influence.

Since Sunnis and Shias are two of the biggest sects in Islam, Arabs and Persians have been successfully mask their regional struggle into a sectarian one. Higher the amount of Moolah pumped through Mullah and there is recipe for a cocktail which will kill the brain cells for an ordinary peace loving Abdul and turn him into an Sect-olic. Since this cocktail originates from the holy lands for respective sect and any sane voice against this radicalization can be termed as turned into atheistic or heretic.

The only way Islam could survive is if Muslims stop putting the Mullahs, Muftis and Ayatollahs on a pedestal and keep religion a personal affairs. There is no Pan Islamic Ummah or unity, people are power hungry by nature and every group would try to get a bigger share of the pie.

And also CIA/Mossad/KGB are always around to scavenge from this mess.

 

[Jf Thunder]

now days even the tragedy of karbala is being mocked by some thekedars of Islam. Some self declared khalifa are threatening to destroy karbala.

not to start a religious debate but the event of karbala is not part of Islam as a religion, it can be part of History but not part of religion LOL

 

[Irfan Baloch]

What is wrong in Indonesia? T and dont seem to have any major issues.
Turkey seems okay aswell.

the cancer is spreading and like being a typical cancer these two countries dont feel it in its early stages.
in the far east..non-Muslims are being denied using the word "Allah". then there is Jama Islamiya and their saddist Bali Bombing smiling leader. Muslims who convert to "other faiths" or religions have been killed along with their families by the Muslim zealots.

Turkey? an unfortunate but willing partner in Syria's destruction something it should have stayed out and let Saudis and Qatar find another host state to play their proxy war. Turkey is what Pakistan was in 80s and 90s. strong and united. on the surface but the sectarian puss was building up that came out in the name of LeJ and TTP.

@TeesraIndiotHunter nice choice of name but that aside.
your title and reasoning can be termed just a POV and the most vocal, active and funded Muslims would argue that this time is the glory of Islam and they have every fatwa behind them to justify rape, cannibalism, terrorism and destruction.

so if you think lsam is doomed and all this glorious Jihad is wrong then either you are a Shia or if you are not a Shia then you are an Atheist Liberal Sunni who needs to be killed along with Shias

 

[punit]

not to start a religious debate but the event of karbala is not part of Islam as a religion, it can be part of History but not part of religion LOL

my reply was for that particular couplet : ISLAM ZINDA HOTA HAI HAR KARBALA KAY BAAD....

by the way how one can massacre the family of prophet and remain Muslim as well !

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

I see it differently.

I think the Chaos of the Islamic world will bring introspection and reform among the Muslims. The same way Christians underwent reforms - Renaissance.

It is going to be different in that people will reform their ways not Islam. It's going to be more of a return to Islam (probably of a diluted form ...) than a reform in Islam.

We have a metaphysical understanding that things go wrong in certain ways for a people when they do certain things. Remove the latter, and the former eases up.

Muslims are not dispossessed, every person put in this world is in good hands. Things are going to get worse for Muslims for a while, but the resurgence has already begun spiritually, its going to take a while to manifest.

my reply was for that particular couplet : ISLAM ZINDA HOTA HAI HAR KARBALA KAY BAAD....

by the way how one can massacre the family of prophet and remain Muslim as well !

That's a very erroneous couplet, talking credally.

As to the second, yes a Muslim can do that and maybe worse things, and remain a Muslim. Being Muslim is just a legal distinction, the real standing of a person before God is extra-legal and can't be guaged with certainty by other people.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

And also CIA/Mossad/KGB are always around to scavenge from this mess.

Muslims can put KGB/ RAW and MOSSAD out of the job because they are doing a pretty good job themselves. joke aside, these organisations (KGB etc) will take advantage of the infighting and chaos for their jobsake otherwise their governments should disband them


you know what pains the wahabis? and why India has been also added in the ISIS map of conquest like Iran Afghanistan and Pakistan? because India houses the most Shias and they are so far safe from Wahabi jihad. and then there are so many Sunni Sufi / Beralvi Saints and their tombs that need to be destroyed.

Petrodollar is not the problem. these Arabs will continue to cut each other like they have been for centuries.

when i see the handywork of AL Qaeda, LeT, LeJ, TTP, Al Shahab, Jama Islamiyah, FSA and all their other Wahabi clones I recall the movie called World war Zee.

watch it. and take heed. ban all direct funding of wahabi madrasshs in India.. I singled out wahabis because they are the sole-traders of Islamic terrorism.

 

[Ahmed Jo]

I wish it was the end of Islam, bit it's not. Concerning the failure of the Muslim world, all you have to do is separate mosque and state and educate the masses. We should be landing on mars in no time.

 

[punit]

It is going to be different in that people will reform their ways not Islam. It's going to be more of a return to Islam (probably of a diluted form ...) than a reform in Islam.

We have a metaphysical understanding that things go wrong in certain ways for a people when they do certain things. Remove the latter, and the former eases up.

Muslims are not dispossessed, every person put in this world is in good hands. Things are going to get worse for Muslims for a while, but the resurgence has already begun spiritually, its going to take a while to manifest.


That's a very erroneous couplet, talking credally.

As to the second, yes a Muslim can do that and maybe worse things, and remain a Muslim. Being Muslim is just a legal distinction, the real standing of a person before God is extra-legal and can't be guaged with certainty by other people.

when i said Muslim . it was certainly not in legal sense. But being Muslim as in being a Muslim !

 

[Jf Thunder]

my reply was for that particular couplet : ISLAM ZINDA HOTA HAI HAR KARBALA KAY BAAD....

by the way how one can massacre the family of prophet and remain Muslim as well !

dude like i said, i dont wanna go into a religious argument, for me Islam ended the day of the last Hajj when the Prophet (P.B.U.H) recited the verses "This day have i completed you religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion"
which means that everything after that day was NOT part of religion and only part of History

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I see it differently.

I think the Chaos of the Islamic world will bring introspection and reform among the Muslims. The same way Christians underwent reforms - Renaissance.

being PC with wahabis?

who justify rape of their victims?
who justify anal sex of fellow jihadis to accommodate bombs in their anus?
who hate women normally but never shy to use Burkas to escape?

the religious extremism steamrolled by hallal dollars have outlived its shelf life its existence is against the laws of evolution. it will burn out.

But wait

the world wont be a better place

something equally more sinister or sick will replace is.
for every good there is always bound to be a bad.