Is Sheikh Hasina turning Bangladesh into a one-party state?

[bluesky]

Is Sheikh Hasina turning Bangladesh into a one-party state?
Who says that? Hasina's one-party state has made the country full of gun-firing AL hooligans as can be seen in the picture below:

 

[Tanveer666]

Is Sheikh Hasina turning Bangladesh into a one-party state?
Who says that? Hasina's one-party state has made the country full of gun-firing AL hooligans as can be seen in the picture below:

View attachment 466522

dont you dare say a word against the nations golden boys! those are toy pistols!!


like i said, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If it wasn't chatra league it would be chatra dal.

 

[Nilgiri]

It also means that a country builds many democratic institutions where the voices of the population are heard and remedies are taken.

So very true. Unfortunate for BD to have seen the executive subsume role of judiciary and legislative branches as well. @Joe Shearer

 

[Nilgiri]

Easy to say now....Fact is China developed nukes when they were very poor.

They developed squat (actually same goes for the Soviets who stole the tech from the west).

Much blood and treasure was given by Mao (in Korean war) in exchange.

The fact of the matter is for a suitably large enough country..."poverty" (which is a per capita thing as you correctly pointed out in another thread) does not apply so much at the macro geopolitical level. If a country is large enough and significant enough, it will get quite easily what it wants (in a bargain trade) with esp another large, significant country. The soviets definitely drove a hard bargain for it though, to the extent that they gave in return long term (industrial help + military help+ nuke help).....lot of Chinese women never saw their husbands and sons return from the wastelands of Korea.

But that stuff is still arguably much more worth (and no surprise closer in time to the earlier Mao stage 1) than compared to what Mao did later purely of his own accord and with no positive "return" w.r.t GLF and cultural revolution.

http://www.maoists.org/dikottermisinterpretation.htm
Who is correct? Who knows?

Maoists.org lol. Anyways the results speak for themselves on the issue (results in the end determine the coin toss present in words). Either Mao seized grain from farmers to export (while his country literally was starving on vast vast un-ignorable scale all around)....or he didnt. Which one is it?

1937-45, Japan routed China.

China was divided (CKS, Mao's reds, other reds, warlords + Japs + pro Japs + neutrals) and weak and fighting on its own soil too.

In early 1950's China fought evenly with USA.

China was unified and fighting outside its soil. The USA elected not to use nuclear weapons (against Macarthur's wishes..and he lost his command largely because of it).

None of these (and the broader geopolitical bargaining like he did with Soviet assistance till the Sino-soviet split) have much to do with Mao on personal level....like what I am talking about w.r.t GLF and cultural revolution.

Neither had 28 years. During Mujib's time BAKSAL and a paramilitary force(Rokkhibahini) were wrecking havoc throughout the country. Present day AL's coalition partner JSD had a lot of its members killed. And now JSD praises Mujib. Zia almost hanged the entire Air Force because of one rebellion after another. A lot of small medium scale rebellion happened in the military during Zia's rule. Zia indiscriminately hanged everyone in the brigades that rebelled. Before getting killed in a rebellion himself. They had 4 years each. And those 4 years were bloody. During Mujib's time there was a famine as well. Yet those two are venerated.

I am not excusing these ppl as saints or something....rather I am saying they are still on completely different tiers (by both reach and intent) to Mao. They didn't have a stable/unified system like Mao did (and exploited big time) in all honesty too...given BD was still getting setup/rebooted itself (stable period only starts with Ershad regime arguably). Thus very different environments and lingering results even when scaled to population size.

I think he once banned University entrance exams and made factories and others recommend students...lol....that sounds retreaded.

Where do you think Pol Pot got his real retardation cancer from? (it certainly wasnt from the cafes and bordellos of Paris...they only went as far as "gentlemanly" socialist).

The whole force the city folk to the farms to work their glorious butts off at the barrel of the gun comes from Mao Zedong school of "thought"....taken to a natural inevitable conclusion....and lo behold a genocide happens there as well. Totally didn't see that coming....

But the way I see it China was better than it was after Mao.

I judge by more exacting standards using opportunity cost. Is something truly better off at say 10% better...when it could have come off as 50% better? Mao falls flat and badly for me....like most authoritarian idealists.

Moral values predates religion actually. Read code of Ur Nammu or Code of king Hammurabi. They didn't mention religion. And they predates Ten Commandments by Moses. Actually a lot of rules in Torah came from code of King Hammurabi after being a bit modified.
Humans built communities to stick together and help each other in order to survive. In that process they made some rules for themselves to function better. It didn't require religion. Religion came later when people couldn't explain natural phenomena like Lightning, etc...they felt some higher power is there causing these things. But they never got close to those higher power...only made assumptions..that's why despite having so many religions humans couldn't find peace and compromise in any of them. They prayed to Zeus...and then prayed to Jesus....they prayed to Al-Uzza and then to Allah. What changed? Nothing. They couldn't find peace back then. They can't find peace now. Catholics fought Protestants and Orthodox....Sunnies fight Shias. Over the similar type of message. A lot of bad things have happened and still happens in this world in the name of religion.

This conversation is too long to get into, and not really my intent for this thread.

I will say its clear in today's context, which side is after destroying all fences....simply because they are fences...is quite clear. Compared to the side that stops and evaluates the fence first and foremost....why is it there, why did our ancestors put it there....and only with reasoned debate create a gate in it or remove it.

The red guard and Weimar commies are running amok, thinking they are winning or have already won having created a controlled Pravda, GOSPLAN and politburo, and little do they understand what they are courting in response, dancing on the graves of all their progenitors (and calling them all kinds of things given they can't respond), for the sake of emotional tantrum and change for change sake....that which never ends well for them, and sadly will destroy a large part of society and capital too. Hah you think Trump is bad, wait till you see what comes after if they do not heed this last messenger....and just think causing enough din, globalist feelz and emotional PC shilling will solve it. These are poor alternatives to open logical debate, but lefties will always have to learn this the hard way it seems. So bet it. @Desert Fox @Psychic

Would you call 1950-70 for China peace time? I see it more of a transition period. Just like BD from 1971-90 wasn't actually peace time. But a transition period. After 1990 BD could start to develop.

Definitely way more of a peacetime than BD transition time. The Politburo exercised much power projection on its people from the get go (massive grassroots inertia from defeating CKS)...there was no post-war factional "split" per se at the level seen in BD between BAL/BNP back then.

It was this internal political sustenance + good shielding/assitance by the Soviets (till the split) that really prompted Mao to believe in his own aura of invincibility to attempt the GLF in first place really.

BD has to have autocratic system for a while longer before the transition to democracy takes place.

Problem is autocracy for autocracy sake. The autocrat is a coin flip (and the results may not be all that different either) but democracy hedges much better especially if you can create a valid framework separating and devolving powers reasonably. The autocrat also requires a huge pressure buildup to remove and reset unlike a democracy....which is something quite undesirable for a society. @Joe Shearer

 

[UKBengali]

So very true. Unfortunate for BD to have seen the executive subsume role of judiciary and legislative branches as well. @Joe Shearer

Yes, that is why democratic India is doing so much better than one-party China.
India is the best example of how democracy is not suitable for a 3rd world country.

BD probably has the best of both worlds now - it is still technically democratic in that elections are being held and the populace can change government through peaceful means if they so desire. We have seen how responsive the government is to popular will by announcing the scrapping of "Freedom Fighter" quotas as per student demands.
At the same time, the opposition party(BNP) is so bad that most of the population will again vote the AL back into power and that is required for stability that the economy needs

Yes there are abuses going on by AL but these pale into comparison of what would be happening if BD had the AL/BNP merry-go round as in 1990s and 2000s.

 

[Nilgiri]

Yes, that is why democratic India is doing so much better than one-party China.

It certainly is. No hard reset likely here because of brittle govt having a country rather than other way around.

India is the best example of how democracy is not suitable for a 3rd world country.

Nah thats Bangladesh....by a country mile too. Bangladesh is even better example of how oxygen is not suitable for oxygen thieves.

 

[UKBengali]

It certainly is. No hard reset likely here because of brittle govt having a country rather than other way around.

Just like a "hard reset" was required in places like Taiwan, S Korea etc when they became democratic.

What are you smoking dude as I would like to have some.

 

[Nilgiri]

Just like a "hard reset" was required in places like Taiwan, S Korea etc when they became democratic.

They had entrenched communist regimes?

BD surely can take more inspiration from those than it does China and the CPC.

What are you smoking dude as I would like to have some.

It is called BD tears, and I am sure you have plenty already

 

[Desert Fox]

This conversation is too long to get into, and not really my intent for this thread.

I will say its clear in today's context, which side is after destroying all fences....simply because they are fences...is quite clear. Compared to the side that stops and evaluates the fence first and foremost....why is it there, why did our ancestors put it there....and only with reasoned debate create a gate in it or remove it.

The red guard and Weimar commies are running amok, thinking they are winning or have already won having created a controlled Pravda, GOSPLAN and politburo, and little do they understand what they are courting in response, dancing on the graves of all their progenitors (and calling them all kinds of things given they can't respond), for the sake of emotional tantrum and change for change sake....that which never ends well for them, and sadly will destroy a large part of society and capital too. Hah you think Trump is bad, wait till you see what comes after if they do not heed this last messenger....and just think causing enough din, globalist feelz and emotional PC shilling will solve it. These are poor alternatives to open logical debate, but lefties will always have to learn this the hard way it seems. So bet it. @Desert Fox @Psychic

At this point these people are an inevitability. The left will destroy. There is nothing stopping it now. The traditional "right" will truly reassert itself once the artificial edifice that sustained leftist thoughts will itself crumble.

 

[bluesky]

So very true. Unfortunate for BD to have seen the executive subsume role of judiciary and legislative branches as well. @Joe Shearer

All these things happen in BD only because of greed for power and money by our politicians led now by Hasina. Like all autocrats she cries for the country, what will happen to it if she is not in power? She has singlehandedly destroyed the culture of democracy. So, she is unable to rein in her AL hooligans.

 

[Mage]

@Nilgiri I have made my points and you have made yours. I don't think there is any point to argue further. We have different world views.

Maoists.org lol.

I know this source is biased...but Dikotter also looked biased to me.

The red guard and Weimar commies are running amok, thinking they are winning or have already won having created a controlled Pravda, GOSPLAN and politburo, and little do they understand what they are courting in response, dancing on the graves of all their progenitors (and calling them all kinds of things given they can't respond), for the sake of emotional tantrum and change for change sake....that which never ends well for them, and sadly will destroy a large part of society and capital too. Hah you think Trump is bad, wait till you see what comes after if they do not heed this last messenger....and just think causing enough din, globalist feelz and emotional PC shilling will solve it. These are poor alternatives to open logical debate, but lefties will always have to learn this the hard way it seems. So bet it. @Desert Fox @Psychic

I think there is some misunderstandings. I am neither a communist nor a big fan of globalism.

Problem is autocracy for autocracy sake. The autocrat is a coin flip (and the results may not be all that different either) but democracy hedges much better especially if you can create a valid framework separating and devolving powers reasonably. The autocrat also requires a huge pressure buildup to remove and reset unlike a democracy....which is something quite undesirable for a society. @Joe Shearer

I agree. But what is better when you can't create a valid framework separating and devolving powers reasonably? I would prefer a democratic BD when it is significantly more developed than it is now. Right now I want stability. And current govt is giving it, autocratic or not.

 

[Nilgiri]

I think there is some misunderstandings. I am neither a communist nor a big fan of globalism.

Wasn't talking about you on a personal level, wasn't my intention.....but I'm talking about the larger atheist manifestation going on right now in tandem with the left's identity politics and "intersectionality" nonsense....backed up quite the apparatus.

But what is better when you can't create a valid framework separating and devolving powers reasonably?

What do you mean can't? That's exactly what the autocrat thrives on....you can't?....hah let me show you the way...because I certainly can!

I would prefer a democratic BD when it is significantly more developed than it is now. Right now I want stability.

The problem is you can only judge stability/effect after the period has lapsed and in rearview mirror by some distance. Because during the time, the long term negatives are often not very accessible. I'm sure early Weimar Germany felt quite stable to many at the time (not saying the situation is like that exactly in BD, but to illustrate the hindsight effect).

Stability for stability sake is also a somewhat dicey argument. @Joe Shearer and I had a convo about it in another forum not too long ago, involving Socrates and his trial.

And current govt is giving it, autocratic or not.

Giving....but at what cost (Esp long term)? This is what remains to be seen.

Sometimes the complete reverse is true btw, a country goes through the tough but meaningful instability at a certain stretch of time, but it has real long term benefits because it could grapple with those tough, sinewy parts of it psyche earlier (when it was smaller and could do less hurt to itself) rather than later (when it has more reason to keep deluding/procastinating with those problems that aren't going away now because of the scaled size).

 

[UKBengali]

Wasn't talking about you on a personal level, wasn't my intention.....but I'm talking about the larger atheist manifestation going on right now in tandem with the left's identity politics and "intersectionality" nonsense....backed up quite the apparatus.



What do you mean can't? That's exactly what the autocrat thrives on....you can't?....hah let me show you the way...because I certainly can!



The problem is you can only judge stability/effect after the period has lapsed and in rearview mirror by some distance. Because during the time, the long term negatives are often not very accessible. I'm sure early Weimar Germany felt quite stable to many at the time (not saying the situation is like that exactly in BD, but to illustrate the hindsight effect).

Stability for stability sake is also a somewhat dicey argument. @Joe Shearer and I had a convo about it in another forum not too long ago, involving Socrates and his trial.



Giving....but at what cost (Esp long term)? This is what remains to be seen.

Sometimes the complete reverse is true btw, a country goes through the tough but meaningful instability at a certain stretch of time, but it has real long term benefits because it could grapple with those tough, sinewy parts of it psyche earlier (when it was smaller and could do less hurt to itself) rather than later (when it has more reason to keep deluding/procastinating with those problems that aren't going away now because of the scaled size).

Dude, you are just regurgitating something you have read in a philosophy book and trying to look smart.

Every 3rd world country that has successfully industrialised in the modern era has had quasi-dictatorship system.
The scrapping of the FF quotas in response to student protests shows that BD is at least a quasi-dictatorship that is responsive to public agitation when the need arises.

BD is in the best position since independence to have stability and economic progress now.

 

[Nilgiri]

Dude, you are just regurgitating something you have read in a philosophy book and trying to look smart.

Every 3rd world country that has successfully industrialised in the modern era has had quasi-dictatorship system.
The scrapping of the FF quotas in response to student protests shows that BD is at least a quasi-dictatorship that is responsive to public agitation when the need arises.

BD is in the best position since independence to have stability and economic progress now.

Dude I am not even reading your posts anymore when they start with "Dude"....dude!

 

[Joe Shearer]

All these things happen in BD only because of greed for power and money by our politicians led now by Hasina. Like all autocrats she cries for the country, what will happen to it if she is not in power? She has singlehandedly destroyed the culture of democracy. So, she is unable to rein in her AL hooligans.

What is happening now is really scaring the shit out of me; has she forgotten that whole tragic Rakkhibahini nonsense?