Is secularisation of Pakistan possible?

[Joe Shearer]

Very interesting topic S19, I am dreaming what is the Pakistan's nation attitude about secularization of government, nation or both?

If you examine YLH's careful separation of secularism and State secularism, some answers suggest themselves.

I believe that the strong imprint of Jinnah himself, and of the unmistakable Muslim specific rather than Islam specific paradigm that drove the AIML to seek segregation, will keep the state secular at core, until the Pakistani people themselves work through their contradictory drive towards greater affiliation with conservative Islam, and their drive towards increased economic and social progress.

 

[Zarvan]

Well, supporters? They BUY half the people who come to their rally. Also, some of their rallies are filmed in front of big roads. For example, one was in front of University road near Masjid Bait-al-Mukkaram. Every passer-by would be thought to be in the rally.
Also, they only have street power because they have an armed gang which recruits in government colleges but the PPP government has stopped that (Shock! PPP did a good thing.)


I saw the other thread, Turkey is hardly secular.
Also, see the secular US and its debt, see the secular Israel and its inhumane treatment of Palestinians. Tell me what is so enticing about it.

Sir I don't like JUI F but their supporters are most loyal in fact every religious party has the most loyal followers because their unity comes from Religion so we have to accept truth

 

[truthseer]

Sir I don't like JUI F but their supporters are most loyal in fact every religious party has the most loyal followers because their unity comes from Religion so we have to accept truth

JUI and religion? They only support religion when it helps them. They blame US and send their kids there. They call for people to not support US products then import them. They're the biggest hypocrites we have.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It is up the people of Pakistan to decide what kind of Government and society they want.
You have no right to dictate to us.
So kindly take your "suggestions" and stick them where the sun don't shine

What was that extraordinary outburst about? If Yasser Latif Hamdani is not a Pakistani, what is he?

 

[truthseer]

What was that extraordinary outburst about? If Yasser Latif Hamdani is not a Pakistani, what is he?

I believe he meant majority of the people. One Swallow does not a summer make

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well from what i observe in the forum they are very allergic to secularism, for reasons which are unclear.

The answers are there in the original article, but couched in terms that are familiar only to regular participants in the discussion about Pakistan that is ongoing. If you and Ir.Tab. are truly interested, follow PakTeaHouse closely. (Was the original post from PakTeaHouse? I hadn't noticed it there).

I believe he meant majority of the people. One Swallow does not a summer make

This is what he said

It is up the people of Pakistan to decide what kind of Government and society they want.
You have no right to dictate to us.
So kindly take your "suggestions" and stick them where the sun don't shine

Original Post By Rusty

So only those on one side of the discussion can comment?

 

[truthseer]

So only those on one side of the discussion can comment?

You're putting words in my mouth, I never said that. Unless you meant him.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You're putting words in my mouth, I never said that. Unless you meant him.

And why would I quote A to put words in the mouth of B?

I only LOOK stupid, I'm not THAT stupid.

 

[Rusty]

And yet you chose to live in a secular country. YOU have no right to suggest what is good for pakistan, as YOU dont live there.

wow
1. how you do know what I chose to do? Are you stalking me?
For all you know I could have been born in Canada, which would mean I had no choice in the mater.
Or are you suggesting only White people can be truly Canadian.
2. If you read what I said again, heck read it 3 times, you will notice I never endorsed any particular ideology.
I simply said that only they have a right to chose their destiny. Just like only Canadians have a right to chose theirs.
To me this is pretty self evident, but what do I know, my ancestors never went around the world murdering and raping willy nilly.

I knew the Canadian education system was on it's way down, but I never realized that it had failed so much that people can't do simple comprehension.
Try a private school bro, I hear their standards are still good.

 

[truthseer]

And why would I quote A to put words in the mouth of B?

I only LOOK stupid, I'm not THAT stupid.

Ah but when you quote B and respond to it with a quote from A and then make a general comment, confusion arises

 

[AdeelFaheem]

The answer to this question is very simple. Secularisation of Pakistan is not possible.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pakistan can be a Muslim country in a sense and yet be secular and still not contradict with the two-nation theory and their raison d'être. Good examples are Malaysia and Indonesia. Both nations are secular, have sizeable minorities (Hindus too). Also the rights of the Muslim majority are protected. I believe Malaysia has two separate sets of laws, Islamic law on certain issues for Muslims, and the regular legal system for everyone else. If you guys are looking for models to learn from, those two are pretty good ones worth looking at.

Excellent examples, although there are hiccups occasionally in both those countries. This might explain why people of the stature and calibre of Ghamidi have left to re-locate to Malaysia.

Ah but when you quote B and respond to it with a quote from A and then make a general comment, confusion arises

I SINCERELY trust things are clear now, and I can move away from that dam' wall and listen to the discussion.

Without Islamic there is no pakistan.Then it is just another part of India.

That WAS Jinnah's original plan. It was sabotaged by the Congress.

 

[Juice]

It is up the people of Pakistan to decide what kind of Government and society they want.
You have no right to dictate to us.
So kindly take your "suggestions" and stick them where the sun don't shine

Lol, so proclaims a "good" muslim.

 

[truthseer]

That statement is COMPLETELY wrong. Please keep in mind that the TNT was defective at a deep level, and is also practically impossible to implement, but it DOES NOT preclude a secular nation-state.

Pray tell what this defect is

This one-line dismissal is a summary of the sustained self-justification of the Congress, which sought to project itself and it's ideology as the only possible paradigm for India. In doing so, it had to oppose and denigrate the Two Nation Theory, not on the grounds of its underlying impracticality as a formula for creating a nation-state, which would have been realistic and would have very adequately explained difficulties arising in Pakistan, but in terms of its articulation of the identity of a minority,among other minorities.

Do mention the underlying impracticability. Also, the two nation theory was always about two nations, not states

The Two Nation Theory perfectly allows a secular nation

It may. However, the founders did not want a secular nation and I quote:

We have made the demand for Pakistan, not to obtain a piece of land but as a laboratory to test Islamic principles

it does not accommodate, per se, an Islamic nation.

It may, it may not, still no reason for secularism

That is the reason for the conflict in progress in Pakistan today. If the original blueprint had not been hijacked and forcibly altered by elements which had earlier fought tooth and nail AGAINST a Muslim homeland, or homelands, and WITH the Congress AGAINST the Muslim League.

Do mention what this hijacking is, I see you haven't given any facts yet.

Please let us not use our situation and our insights in interpreting Pakistan and its situation. It would be as superficial and as silly as a Pakistani commentator interpreting India through the lens of the Two Nation Theory.

Thank you!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pray tell what this defect is


Do mention the underlying impracticability. Also, the two nation theory was always about two nations, not states


It may. However, the founders did not want a secular nation and I quote:


It may, it may not, still no reason for secularism


Do mention what this hijacking is, I see you haven't given any facts yet.



Thank you!

It will be better if you address your queries to YLH. i can answer queries or doubts posed by Indian members.

However, at least one of the answers you seek is in your own response.