Is Parrikars ” Sasta Aur Tikau ” logic behind India’s F-16 interest ?:p:

[GURU DUTT]

And how would they fare against SU 35 or Euro Fighter (5th Gen fighters) which Pakistan is planning to procure in the coming months?

janab do you have typhoon or Su-35 or have you any deal in works as of now to get them from europe or russia or europeans or russians have given any press release on selling the same to pakistan .... na soot na kapaas aur julahe latthamm lathhaa


but both LM & Dassault and russian corporations are in talks with MOD & IAF for the same funny isnt it

now do you know the latest Blk70/72 has 3rd gen GaN based AESA radar and compact and combined EW+ECM+EJ avionics suite which hypothatically saying can detect a F-16 in clean configuration from at least 150 miles and start tracking the same from 100 miles and can track more than 60 targets at the same time and engage more then 12 at the same time now tell me do you have anything to counter it right now or in near future say 5-10 years

 

[#hydra#]

Few exercises and IAF pilots would be equal to their counterparts in PAF. If this machine is able of any special secret maneuvers, they would be imported along with it from Lockheed Martin and US Air force.
What edge PAF could have with older versions ?
It's Maintaines friendly than any of other other jet currently in IAF.

No friend, its a time consuming process,remember su30(old variant) was the mist lethal air fighting platform of IAF at the time if kargil war and we were using it since 1997 onwards. Yet we didn't deployed it in kargil for any combat duty due to the same reason of lack of experiences with a new platform. No matter how deadly is it, What I want to say is that the paf 16 pilots will be having an edge over possible 16iaf pilots for minimum of 5 to 10 years.

 

[!eon]

Huh? Are you sure few years? It takes 5 years years to 8 years to get along and understand any new aircraft in inventory .Take for the example Su 30k.

Take a deep breath and think what else fighter is easier to learn than F-16.
Take example form all the air forces operating F-16.
Are you planning war next winter ? Few exercises doesn't mean 2 to 4 weeks. So, delay it a bit.
But it will be a lot easier to integrate than Rafale or any other.

 

[#hydra#]

russia will never have agreed to give us T50 had we not orderred flankers in large numbers and USA wont give neuclear propulssion tech , EMALS ,F35 & jet engine tech if we dont take F16 as they are giving cause right now they need us and we have a great opportunity and if we waste it we are going to sulk for another 30 years so why not get it and get owr system familiarised by the latest tech inputs USA has to offer

and F16 Blk70/72 is not at the end of its life cycle it still be very very potent to threats faced by us for at least 2-3 decades and with new technology in evolution it still has room for more improvements and at 100 million per peice its more deadly than any other single engined fighter jet in the world today but has weight carrying capacity and almost same combat range as advanced super hornet (550-600 Km on internal & CFT fuel with full load )


and what about inputs and war doctrine inputs from USAF & Israeli and Singaporean air forces ?

Doctrines was acquired by flying experiences, it can't be absorbed from other air forces by simply doing some exercises, I do agree that it will improve in tweaking possible 16iaf pilots.
But one thing I don't know why parikar is pushing for 16? Always f15 was the spearhead for USAF in recent wars since first gulf war and we already have f15equivalent mki,what I want to say is that parikar should considered f18 over f16. There is lot of blogs and forums which say as 16 is a better dog fighter in comparisons with f18 and f18 master to 16 in rest of everything. What Iaf needs is not a dogfigher now,we are having better options like mki and mig29 for that role.
(My personal opinion: do not go for any American fighters)

 

[!eon]

No friend, its a time consuming process,remember su30(old variant) was the mist lethal air fighting platform of IAF at the time if kargil war and we were using it since 1997 onwards. Yet we didn't deployed it in kargil for any combat duty due to the same reason of lack of experiences with a new platform. No matter how deadly is it, What I want to say is that the paf 16 pilots will be having an edge over possible 16iaf pilots for minimum of 5 to 10 years.

5 years is too much for F-16
See the PAF vs Soviets in Afghan war clashes.
What you want buy today and expert tomorrow ? That's not case even with bicycle. And today what is more feasible than F-16s for India ?

 

[GURU DUTT]

Doctrines was acquired by flying experiences, it can't be absorbed from other air forces by simply doing some exercises, I do agree that it will improve in tweaking possible 16iaf pilots.
But one thing I don't know why parikar is pushing for 16? Always f15 was the spearhead for USAF in recent wars since first gulf war and we already have f15equivalent mki,what I want to say is that parikar should considered f18 over f16. There is lot of blogs and forums which say as 16 is a better dog fighter in comparisons with f18 and f18 master to 16 in rest of everything. What Iaf needs is not a dogfigher now,we are having better options like mki and mig29 for that role.
(My personal opinion: do not go for any American fighters)

well F16 which is offerred to us now is not just a great dog fighter with Radar & EW-ECM suotes and best HMDS-HOBS and BVR combo other than F22 & F35 plus it can carry 8 tonne of weapons load but still have close to same combat radius as that of F/A-18 but consumes almost 40% less fuel and is 25% less maintainence oriented than F/A-18

 

[#hydra#]

5 years is too much for F-16
See the PAF vs Soviets in Afghan war clashes.
What you want buy today and expert tomorrow ? That's not case even with bicycle. And today what is more feasible than F-16s for India ?

Few su22s and some transport aircrafts.event vintage mig21s are sufficient for this job.
And don't underestimate the capabilities of ur pilots here.

well F16 which is offerred to us now is not just a great dog fighter with Radar & EW-ECM suotes and best HMDS-HOBS and BVR combo other than F22 & F35 plus it can carry 8 tonne of weapons load but still have close to same combat radius as that of F/A-18 but consumes almost 40% less fuel and is 25% less maintainence oriented than F/A-18

Those who flew both aircrafts say otherwise, I am sure only us pilots have flew both these things.

Don't know why were adding lot of different platforms to our iafs inventory. If u add any american fighter means u have to import all its weapons from them too,including bvr missiles,wvr missiles and even air to air guns.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Few su22s and some transport aircrafts.event vintage mig21s are sufficient for this job.
And don't underestimate the capabilities of ur pilots here.


Those who flew both aircrafts say otherwise, I am sure only us pilots have flew both these things.

Don't know why were adding lot of different platforms to our iafs inventory. If u add any american fighter means u have to import all its weapons from them too,including bvr missiles,wvr missiles and even air to air guns.

dont forget israelies and they are fully into this deal and will provide us with all the inputs to make most from F16 we plan to buy

 

[!eon]

Few su22s and some transport aircrafts.event vintage mig21s are sufficient for this job.
And don't underestimate the capabilities of ur pilots here.

If Su22 and vintage Mig21 are enough, PAF would be history by now. Now that PAF still exists, so back to topic.
I had requested to look into Pak-Soviet clashes during Afghan war. If you had looked upon that incidents you wouldn't have come with this thing. of Su22 and Mig21 against F-16.
Migs were flown by it's origin country pilots and F-16s were relatively new to PAF. That would have cleared your doubts about integration of new platform. Russians pilots were equally experts, PAF didn't have edge in that area.
And I asked for your suggestion what can more rapidly integrated than F-16 ?

I would still go for F-16,as best in its category. If you have any doubts you can check online available info and add-minus it with others.

Most important of all, that your govt is going for f-16s is, if IAF gets f-16s, it would be fullstop for PAF and f-16 love affair. They would must have to look for new platform.

 

[I S I]

maybe that is one of the reason why MOD has decided to get F-16blk70/72 for IAF as it will confuse and neutralise PAF war doctrine for last 3 decades which is based around F16

Dafuq is Block 70/72 ?

 

[#hydra#]

If Su22 and vintage Mig21 are enough, PAF would be history by now. Now that PAF still exists, so back to topic.
I had requested to look into Pak-Soviet clashes during Afghan war. If you had looked upon that incidents you wouldn't have come with this thing. of Su22 and Mig21 against F-16.
Migs were flown by it's origin country pilots and F-16s were relatively new to PAF. That would have cleared your doubts about integration of new platform. Russians pilots were equally experts, PAF didn't have edge in that area.
And I asked for your suggestion what can more rapidly integrated than F-16 ?

I would still go for F-16,as best in its category. If you have any doubts you can check online available info and add-minus it with others.

Most important of all, that your govt is going for f-16s is, if IAF gets f-16s, it would be fullstop for PAF and f-16 love affair. They would must have to look for new platform.

Of course not any US fighters.
Reasons are
1)paf even shot down soviets for Americans by risking the wrath of USSR,and what is uncle Sam's attitude with you now. Same is applicable to us also. Their infactuatiob with India will end the moment the find China is no longer a threat to US interests.
2)weapon commonalities: IAF doesn't use any of US Maude air to air weaponry,smart bombs so far.So we have to maintain such costly items exclusively for f16 and it won't be compatible with rest of the iaf fighters,a huge waste of money in this case.
3)future of f16 is not so prosperous when compares to euro canrads.
4)I am highly skeptical about interoperability bwith iaf's spearhead MKI

So by my logic, iaf should sign rafale deal as early as possible (I know the mmrca saga) and increase its number,or stick to current requirements of 126 rafales and side by side start purchasing platform like su34s.

If su34 doesn't fit the weight category we should go for f18,yeah its having the all demerits of 16 in iaf but at least we will be halving engine commonality with LCA and there is a high probability of having few growlers.

There is a generation gap is there between f16 and sofar mentioned su22 and mig 23. Same thing will happened if we induct f22 today and went against to any gen4fighters after one year.

 

[!eon]

Of course not any US fighters.
Reasons are
1)paf even shot down soviets for Americans by risking the wrath of USSR,and what is uncle Sam's attitude with you now. Same is applicable to us also. Their infactuatiob with India will end the moment the find China is no longer a threat to US interests.
2)weapon commonalities: IAF doesn't use any of US Maude air to air weaponry,smart bombs so far.So we have to maintain such costly items exclusively for f16 and it won't be compatible with rest of the iaf fighters,a huge waste of money in this case.
3)future of f16 is not so prosperous when compares to euro canrads.
4)I am highly skeptical about interoperability bwith iaf's spearhead MKI

So by my logic, iaf should sign rafale deal as early as possible (I know the mmrca saga) and increase its number,or stick to current requirements of 126 rafales and side by side start purchasing platform like su34s.

If su34 doesn't fit the weight category we should go for f18,yeah its having the all demerits of 16 in iaf but at least we will be halving engine commonality with LCA and there is a high probability of having few growlers.

There is a generation gap is there between f16 and sofar mentioned su22 and mig 23. Same thing will happened if we induct f22 today and went against to any gen4fighters after one year.

F-16 is coming in India.

 

[wiseone2]

Published September 4, 2016
SOURCE: Adhir Naik / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG


Manohar Parrikar Ex-Goa CM and current Defence Minister of India has been closely followed by me (Goan) from the time he became India’s first IITian Chief Minister of Goa nearly 16 years ago . Bhai, as he is popularly known in Goa, has time again has proved himself has a capable administrator who is known to take middle route to balance between cost vs effectiveness when it comes to many infrastructure projects initiated by him in this home state which lead to his elevation to Defence minister with full backing coming from Narendra Modi himself .

Parrikar when it comes to infrastructure projects back in Goa is particularly obsessed by Cable Stayed Bridge which traditionally are cheaper to build ,easier on maintenance and can still provide reliability of traditional designs , his obsession to find cheaper and reliable alternatives to expensive and traditional approach is well known among Goa’s BJP karyakarthas .

A Recent talk with BJP karyakartha who has worked with Parrikar closely just reinforces my believe that Parrikar has a defence minister will always also look out for Sasta Aur Tikau ( Cheap but Reliable ) options when it comes to defence procurement for the country .

While United States is pitching India with their legendary F-16 to India, India having talks with United states on possible Make in India F-16s could be one of the examples where Parrikar seems to be adamant to provide airforce much needed airpower boost but at much-needed lower airpower cost for the country .

F-16V aka Block 70 might not be best of 4++ Generation fighter jet at present but is cheaper and brings in higher operational availability than cheaper Russian offerings a right balance between cost and reliability .

Parrikar will be fully aware that Indo-Russian Pak-fa and India’s very own AMCA 5th Generation fighter aircraft will always be utmost priority for Indian Air force and always will be first and frontline aircraft which will require high level of funding and investments and F-16 or LCA-Tejas will always be the Second line of aircraft for airforce due to their 4.5 Gen capabilities, which might be one of the reasons why India shelved plans to procure expensive 126 Rafale fighter jets and instead are negotiating for only 36 jets .

India can ill afford to buy expensive 4.5 Generation fighter jets which always will be the second line of fighter jets and will require funds for 5th Generation Stealth fighter jets which air forces around the world is moving to in next few years

f-16 at unit cost of $50 million is more potent than a Rafale at $220 million

 

[zebra7]

f-16 at unit cost of $50 million is more potent than a Rafale at $220 million

lol, source and which block ??

 

[OrionHunter]

F-16's are still deadly.. Specially new Blocks

Yep! The F-16 blk 70/72 is a killer 4++ gen fighter with all the latest gizmos and cutting edge technology that Lockheed has stuffed inside!

And to top it all, it's amazingly cost effective! India could be the next manufacturing hub and repair/overhaul base for the 4,500 F-16s in service around the world. Many air forces would love to induct this new fighter and that would mean billions of dollars flowing into India's kitty for the next several decades. And then there would be massive employment generation too! The mantra? Make in India!