Is Pakistani military taking note of recent conflicts, technologies and tactics?

[JamD]

It's not like this has not been pitched, or that they do know how this tech can change the results on the ground. But it's mindset of a generation. Can't make old people think different. It would be either via spilt blood or some miracle.

Maybe spamming them with those videos of tanks blowing up will help. Doesn't necessarily have to be our blood.

 

[JamD]

The people at UAS-G had claimed at one point that they are developing loitering munitions but I can't say what came of that considering their reputation (read: their weird oversell UCAV) project.

 

[Aspen]

The people at UAS-G had claimed at one point that they are developing loitering munitions but I can't say what came of that considering their reputation (read: their weird oversell UCAV) project.

If they were the same people working on Project Azm, then probably nothing came of it.

 

[Aspen]

Maybe spamming them with those videos of tanks blowing up will help. Doesn't necessarily have to be our blood.

If somebody can give me email of ISPR, I will be glad to do it.

 

[kursed]

Maybe spamming them with those videos of tanks blowing up will help. Doesn't necessarily have to be our blood.

If they'd only look at Chinese ORBAT vs Indians in Ladakh (Depsang et al), and how they have offsetted superior infantry tactics of Indians by simply introducing precision, fast attack loitering munition - and how India literally went running for an off the shelf buy once they saw what was in store. All of these examples are not from some sci-fi future or a far off border - most of this is now happening right in our vicinity.

Sula89 and CH-901 are operational platforms, currently being used against Indians in Ladakh. And we've seen how they have operationally interdicted Indian planning. But still....

 

[JamD]

If they were the same people working on Project Azm, then probably nothing came of it.

Private company. But yes probably nothing came of it.

 

[HalfMoon]

Tell me about it, I want to go hide somewhere whenever I remember how many technologies Pakistan military is missing. It is embarrassing.

No drone force in Pakistan in 2020 is honestly unbelievable and utterly unacceptable.

There is no other country on earth with an enemy as hostile as India is to Pakistan that doesn't have a drone force in 2020.

One word : Burraq

 

[JamD]

If they'd only look at Chinese ORBAT vs Indians in Ladakh (Depsang et al), and how they have offsetted superior infantry tactics of Indians by simply introducing precision, fast attack loitering munition - and how India literally went running for an off the shelf buy once they saw what was in store. All of these examples are not from some sci-fi future or a far off border - most of this is now happening right in our vicinity.

Sula89 and CH-901 are operational platforms, currently being used against Indians in Ladakh. And we've seen how they have operationally interdicted Indian planning. But still....

I'm sure (I hope) @PanzerKiel will have an opinion on this.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If they'd only look at Chinese ORBAT vs Indians in Ladakh (Depsang et al), and how they have offsetted superior infantry tactics of Indians by simply introducing precision, fast attack loitering munition - and how India literally went running for an off the shelf buy once they saw what was in store. All of these examples are not from some sci-fi future or a far off border - most of this is now happening right in our vicinity.

Sula89 and CH-901 are operational platforms, currently being used against Indians in Ladakh. And we've seen how they have operationally interdicted Indian planning. But still....

It may take a few years or decades, but eventually, the mindset driving the current leadership will end.

Slowly, even the biggest 'fans' of the armed forces are going to pick-up on the lack of transparency and slow drive of said leadership. The inquisitive questions will eventually become relentless questioning; what will the armed forces do then -- call everyone an 'ISSB reject' ? I think, eventually, the sincere heads will take charge.

 

[HalfMoon]

Question: Under what plausible scenario will Pakistan ever see a war w/ India, outside of some Mumbai like attack repeating itself. I'm speaking of a plausible scenario where WAR takes place, even if a relatively limited one, and not these limited surgical attacks and one-offs.

When China attacks India to capture Ladakh, Pakistan will attack India to capture Kashmir valley.

 

[HalfMoon]

Terrific post. We need to pretty much abandon tanks and go drone drone drone.

Are you saying our VT-4 procurement is a mistake?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Officially, Bayraktar produces one TB2 UAV per week.....

 

[S A L M A N.]

It may take a few years or decades, but eventually, the mindset driving the current leadership will end.

Slowly, even the biggest 'fans' of the armed forces are going to pick-up on the lack of transparency and slow drive of said leadership. The inquisitive questions will eventually become relentless questioning; what will the armed forces do then -- call everyone an 'ISSB reject' ? I think, eventually, the sincere heads will take charge.

The PA's relentless focus has been on revamping it's force structure, training doctrine and deployment and combat tactics in order to prepare for COIN ops, urban warfare related to the WoT. This has been the case since atleast 2002. The generation of officers that has ascended to top leadership roles has had their mindset shaped by these changes.
In my opinion, the PA is not adequately prepared for a full scale war owing to equipment obsolescence and an institutional focus that has strayed away (owing to circumstances) from fighting a conventional war.
This, coupled with the PA's increasing foray into civil affairs has created an environment where the focus of the leadership (i.e COAS) is not on operational matters.
If you have your COAS having his presence in everything from the COVID relief efforts to discussing NROs with squabbling politicians (who have been proven to be corrupt and national security threats), you can not expect for much development to take place. The COAS has pretty much become equal in visibility and clout to rival a cabinet minister and that is going to be disastrous in the long run.
I am hopeful, however, that the young officers of today are aware of the changes that must take place and over the years, successive leadership changes are effective in bringing fresh thinking forward.
With the army reduced to a mere policing role in the country (IBOs, anti-terrorist, etc - a role for civilian agencies) we can not hope for glorious successes in any full scale war.
The 27th Feb skirmish turned out to be a success because it was the PAF and PN that were in the field - both of these services have totally reinvented themselves during the last decade or so. The PA on the other hand, is more or less stuck in the 90s and early 2000s.
And no, the induction of a batch of VT-4s, a few Burraqs and LOMADS isn't going to cut it.

 

[rent4country]

When China attacks India to capture Ladakh, Pakistan will attack India to capture Kashmir valley.

That reads like a reply with the least amount of effort exerted. Was that intentional, or that's just you?

 

[S.Y.A]

The PA's relentless focus has been on revamping it's force structure, training doctrine and deployment and combat tactics in order to prepare for COIN ops, urban warfare related to the WoT. This has been the case since atleast 2002. The generation of officers that has ascended to top leadership roles has had their mindset shaped by these changes.
In my opinion, the PA is not adequately prepared for a full scale war owing to equipment obsolescence and an institutional focus that has strayed away (owing to circumstances) from fighting a conventional war.
This, coupled with the PA's increasing foray into civil affairs has created an environment where the focus of the leadership (i.e COAS) is not on operational matters.
If you have your COAS having his presence in everything from the COVID relief efforts to discussing NROs with squabbling politicians (who have been proven to be corrupt and national security threats), you can not expect for much development to take place. The COAS has pretty much become equal in visibility and clout to rival a cabinet minister and that is going to be disastrous in the long run.
I am hopeful, however, that the young officers of today are aware of the changes that must take place and over the years, successive leadership changes are effective in bringing fresh thinking forward.
With the army reduced to a mere policing role in the country (IBOs, anti-terrorist, etc - a role for civilian agencies) we can not hope for glorious successes in any full scale war.
The 27th Feb skirmish turned out to be a success because it was the PAF and PN that were in the field - both of these services have totally reinvented themselves during the last decade or so. The PA on the other hand, is more or less stuck in the 90s and early 2000s.
And no, the induction of a batch of VT-4s, a few Burraqs and LOMADS isn't going to cut it.

no matter how much their thinking has been shaped by WoT, or no matter how busy the COAS is, the army is a huge organization. it must have a think-tank that looks into these matters and advises the planners accordingly. so, either that think-tank is useless, or the planners are.

it appears as if they are living in a bubble, and refuse to listen to others. similar things have been witnessed by those who work in nescom. seniors are not willing to change/adapt new technologies. higher ups are not interested in doing any innovation or anything new, they do what the army tells them, or what they already know.