What's new

Is Pakistan Better Off Industrially (and More Diverse in Industrial Production) Compared to Bangladesh?

Dang!!! I've never seen anything like this, are these parts durable and last?

These wheel hubs are made of aluminium and usually are so economically priced (like early Chinese products of two decades ago) that durability is a second factor in the purchase. You attach these to the spokes and you mount the tyres on the wheel rim (which are both also made locally), then you drive the two wheeler at 40 Miles an hour (60 KMPH) max. Not much to worry about.

I am guessing that more than 50% of all two wheelers in Pakistan are made by Atlas Honda and therefore Honda 150 cc bikes are more or less ubiquitous which these parts spares (such as wheel hubs, sprockets and other parts) are made for.

These are really not all that complicated to machine within tolerances once you cast the part out of aluminium.
 
If it is the question of quality, certain bureaucrats of the Ministry of Industries should come down from their offices in Paradise and control the quality by giving the makers proper guidance.

This is how a manufacturer starts producing quality goods.

@bluesky bhai, quality and automation of manufacturing has slowly improved as I have seen in the last five years even.

Take motorcycle chain sprockets for example.

1. In previous videos we used to see 3 or 4 steps to get to a certain product stage, they have shortened these steps by using improved machines
2. They are also using semi-automated lathes for making bevels after forming teeth, they used to use manual lathes for that.
3. There is increased use of CNC machines for every step on the manufacturing process.

Look at this first video and compare it to earlier 2nd video, making the same sprockets, made from scrap ship steel plates.



We are a far bigger ship-breaker nation than Pakistan is. They make hundreds of different items from ship plate, we don't make jack squat. I have seen excavator buckets, bike sprockets and umpteen items made in Pakistan from ship breaking scrap. Not even talking about melting stainless steel and aluminum and making scissors, knives, surgical implements from scratch which is a huge export sector there other than garments.

We don't have to worry about Pakistanis, they will do what they need to. Even in roadside shops.

Unfortunately - Bengali entrepreneurs remain unaware and oblivious to these diversified value addition sectors and are happy to import from India and China. These entrepreneurs are just rank idiots or do not possess any smarts to set up manufacturing to substitute imports. Their trade union reps also cannot move the govt. amlas strongly enough to increase tariff on imported motorcycle spares to make their own job easier. When Indians finally double their prices, these gadhas will happily pay double to triple for the same parts they could make at home.

Bunch of gadhas in our govt. who don't understand how to watch our own interest and support foreign suppliers instead.

Meanwhile we have the "chetona-idiot", "provat-ferry", "mongol-shovajatra" bootlicker gadhas jumping up and down on how good their "shujoggo-konnya" leader is doing her job.

A mo-fo f*cked up uneducated "tong-er-dokandar" populace deserves their "gareebon-ka-huq lootney-wallah" f*cked up leaders. Kha shalara goo-kha. Tao pasher desher goo.
 
Last edited:
These are really not all that complicated to machine within tolerances once you cast the part out of aluminium.
Below is what I used to know as ASTM. It was established by the private American people. But, in Pakistan, there is a need to establish similar metal testing platforms by the Industries Ministry.

Without a system to test and improve the metallic products by the authority of the govt, a poor country's industries cannot possibly improve the quality of the products.

"A group of scientists and engineers, led by Charles Dudley, formed ASTM in 1898 to address the frequent rail breaks affecting the fast-growing railroad industry. The group developed a standard for the steel used to fabricate rails. Originally called the "American Society for Testing Materials" in 1902, it became the "American Society for Testing And Materials" in 1961. In 2001, ASTM officially changed its name to “ASTM International"
 
Last edited:
Simple but labor-intensive production process to fabricate aluminum motorcycle engine piston heads in Pakistan. Bangladesh has nothing like this - when it'd be so simple to implement with minimal investments in mechanization and machinery. I'm sure the cost to make something like this in Pakistan is way cheaper than anywhere else. One reason why this kind of investment is not made in Bangladesh is because Bangladeshi trade and commerce ministers are paid agents of Indian govt. and companies and resist any attempts to industrialize Bangladesh, ensuring we will always depend on Indian products and services (like medical care).

Look at this guy, he owns several Indian hospitals in Bangladesh including Apollo (now Evercare). He is the number one reason why Indian products do not get punitive tariffs in Bangladesh.




 
Last edited:
Look at how an advanced five cylinder ammonia compressor (cold storage) crankshaft is forged, machined and fabricated using basic tools (like gas torches and lathes) in Pakistan. Now this is called "real" value addition and self-sufficiency.

We in Bangladesh have tons of high quality ship-breaking steel plate available to do this, but we are content to sit on our lazy a$$es and only to import them from India. AL Govt. never increased tariff on these Indian fabrication imports, because they want to support Indian industry, at the cost of our own.

 
Semi Truck Trailer Frame Production, another self sufficient industry to reduce imports, which we direly need in Bangladesh and don't have, like Pakistan.

This is for a Hino truck chassis in Pakistan. You don't need millions in investments or FDI. Just an attitude change, some old press brake machines and some gas torches.

 
Simple but labor-intensive production process to fabricate aluminum motorcycle engine piston heads in Pakistan. Bangladesh has nothing like this - when it'd be so simple to implement with minimal investments in mechanization and machinery. I'm sure the cost to make something like this in Pakistan is way cheaper than anywhere else. One reason why this kind of investment is not made in Bangladesh is because Bangladeshi trade and commerce ministers are paid agents of Indian govt. and companies and resist any attempts to industrialize Bangladesh, ensuring we will always depend on Indian products and services (like medical care).

Look at this guy, he owns several Indian hospitals in Bangladesh including Apollo (now Evercare). He is the number one reason why Indian products do not get punitive tariffs in Bangladesh.






Motorcycle vendor industry looks quite diversified in Pakistan and almost 100% of the components are made locally with thousands employed in the vendor industry. Your posted videos and material are an eye opener for the people here as well.

The demand for motorcycles was increasing with annual sales of 2.4-2.8 million per year, so all depends on demand and supply.

And the largest chunk of buyers are from small towns and rural areas, and they don't care if it's a branded Honda or Yamaha, the utilitarian value is the reason for a purchase.

Same in cities as well.


 
Last edited:
Motorcycle vendor industry looks quite diversified in Pakistan and almost 100% of the components are made locally with thousands employed in the vendor industry. Your posted videos and material are an eye opener for the people here as well.

The demand for motorcycles was increasing with annual sales of 2.4-2.8 million per year, so all depends on demand and supply.

And the largest chunk of buyers are from small towns and rural areas, and they don't care if it's a branded Honda or Yamaha, the utilitarian value is the reason for a purchase.

Same in cities as well.



Mashallah wish the best for Pakistan brother!

When hardworking Pakistanis are this enterprising, no amount of saajish or looting can keep Pakistan down.

I only wish Bangladesh people had 10% of this enterprising spirit - all they do is being slaves and consumers of whatever Indian businesspeople want to sell in Bangladesh.

The industrial scenario in Bangladesh will be completely dead after becoming middle income country, as all GSP facilities will go away.

Then it will be time for declaring Bangladesh a de-facto Sikkim.
 
Semi Truck Trailer Frame Production, another self sufficient industry to reduce imports, which we direly need in Bangladesh and don't have, like Pakistan.

This is for a Hino truck chassis in Pakistan. You don't need millions in investments or FDI. Just an attitude change, some old press brake machines and some gas torches.

Bilal bhai, while there is no doubt in the ingenuity it takes to manufacture such intricate components I'd disagree with the value addition part of your post.

I cannot judge the efficacy of such manufacturing through videos alone. To me it looks like an accessible and cheaper alternative to OEMs but then its usage parametre would be the real test.

High value manufacturing has exceedingly narrow tolerances and requires standardized output products to translate into sustainable high end manufacturing, something that would be impossible with mechanical human led manufacturing methods showcased in the video. One can posit that such skillset would be necessary to achieve the next level in manufacturing but that is a planned and long path, else you risk losing such skill sets.

In short, while admirable, current level is already outmoded and further investment and planning would be prudent to meet global standards and compete in the international market, the domestic one is saturated and hinders further progress.

To compete in the international markets one has to produce not only to exacting standards but in the most economical way, the real challenge is in the latter than the former.
 
Bilal bhai, while there is no doubt in the ingenuity it takes to manufacture such intricate components I'd disagree with the value addition part of your post.

I cannot judge the efficacy of such manufacturing through videos alone. To me it looks like an accessible and cheaper alternative to OEMs but then its usage parametre would be the real test.

High value manufacturing has exceedingly narrow tolerances and requires standardized output products to translate into sustainable high end manufacturing, something that would be impossible with mechanical human led manufacturing methods showcased in the video. One can posit that such skillset would be necessary to achieve the next level in manufacturing but that is a planned and long path, else you risk losing such skill sets.

In short, while admirable, current level is already outmoded and further investment and planning would be prudent to meet global standards and compete in the international market, the domestic one is saturated and hinders further progress.

To compete in the international markets one has to produce not only to exacting standards but in the most economical way, the real challenge is in the latter than the former.

It is true that manufacturing tolerances and composition of cast iron/steel items as well as strength of fasteners/bolts are suspect but they are over-engineered for desi uses (to compensate for when desi operators carry 30 tons of goods in a 20 ton capacity truck). This 20% over-engineering is generally arrived at in Pakistan by hearsay and acute first-hand observations and experience of when and where existing components like crane booms, hydraulic jacks and truck chassis/frame failures occur. For truck chassis, some components have extra gussets and cross-braces added to prevent failure in the usual places.

Which means a lot less actual failures as time goes on.

I don't see rigorous weight checks and weighing station operations becoming common in either of our three countries. In Bangladesh this is done before trucks are let on some of the newer bridges. In the West, weight checks every ten/fifteen miles in all highways are mandatory in urban areas. So in absence of weight checks - one has to ensure over engineered components to counter human greed.

Coming back to Pakistan industry - what they are doing in Sialkot and Gujranwala are the basis of a heavy and light engineering export boom.

Any heavy engineering shop supervisor in the West would agree that if these Pakistani men had a more guided education on component fabrication to abide by tolerances, and of course better automated machinery to increase production, they could easily triple their production rate while maintaining uniformity and quality using things like the Toyota QC system and there could be no possible competition to what heavy/light engg. item they could export. They are already doing wonders with the bare basics like a press brake and cutting torches and of course no CNC anything.

But I firmly believe investments in machinery and better processes will be forthcoming once Pakistanis decide to export overseas. What they produce right now is very appropriate for local consumption in Pakistan and locally tolerable price points to match. Already I am seeing older refurbished Japanese CNC machining centers being used in Gujranwala videos to speed up production.

The motorcycle components industry there is a vivid exemplar of such effort because - as @N.Siddiqui bhai commented on, people in villages don't really care what brand a motorcycle is, as long as it runs and is reliable up to a certain standard. And if parts are cheap, then that is even better, cherry on top.

Speaking for myself, If I was price sensitive, I could honestly care less if my motorcycle sprocket wheel was made from recycled steel plate derived from a cargo ship panel, which is actually rather high quality steel in any case. And the projected use (if I drove in slow speed village roads, not the Nürburgring or autobahn) would fit it just fine.

The point is - this sort of roadside-shop-industrialization took place in the late 1800s in Japan (used extensively in WW I and WW II for war materiel supply when Emperor Meiji ushered in the Meiji restoration i.e. rapid westernization of Japan), late 1960s in Taiwan/Korea and twenty years later in the 1980's in China. Of course China being a centrally planned economy benefitted from massive industrial undertakings in several industrial sectors to supply basic raw materials, unlike Japan and Taiwan/Korea.

Japanese quality control was even worse in the 1960's (than Pakistani quality of the current day) before they got a hold of Deming and increased their QC. So having lower cost variable quality is not an issue. The first Toyota imported to the US was so weak in power, it could not get up some hills. There is a market for everything in every price bracket, even in the West (some people call it 'expendable' or throw-away quality).

Some value addition or basic value addition is better than no value addition (and being horribly import dependent) which is the scenario in Bangladesh right now for almost all heavy and light engineering products.
 
Last edited:
Here is a video on the made-from-scratch production process in Pakistan for Khurshid fans - indicative of the price competitive technology employed. Fan industry is well established and self-sufficient in Pakistan since the mid-1950s, since a lot of users can afford it and a more or less stable market exists in other gulf/African export markets. Their specialty is inverter circuit employed in some models so those fans can be run off of 12 volt batteries during power outages and in off-grid areas.


 
Here is another fan manufacturing process for Tamoor Fans, their process is different (centrifugal casting) to make alumnium fan housing, however their use of cam-driven automated lathes (semi-CNC) is notable.

https://www.tamoorfans.com



It may be noted here that Tamoor and Khurshid fan mfg. and other large Pakistani light engineering companies - are all located in the city of Gujrat in the Province of Punjab in Pakistan. Gujrat City is the capital of Gujrat District and it is the 21st largest city of Pakistan by population. Of course it has nothing to do with the state of Gujrat in India, farther South.
 
It is true that manufacturing tolerances and composition of cast iron/steel items as well as strength of fasteners/bolts are suspect but they are over-engineered for desi uses (to compensate for when desi operators carry 30 tons of goods in a 20 ton capacity truck). This 20% over-engineering is generally arrived at in Pakistan by hearsay and acute first-hand observations and experience of when and where existing components like crane booms, hydraulic jacks and truck chassis/frame failures occur. For truck chassis, some components have extra gussets and cross-braces added to prevent failure in the usual places.

Which means a lot less actual failures as time goes on.

I don't see rigorous weight checks and weighing station operations becoming common in either of our three countries. In Bangladesh this is done before trucks are let on some of the newer bridges. In the West, weight checks every ten/fifteen miles in all highways are mandatory in urban areas. So in absence of weight checks - one has to ensure over engineered components to counter human greed.

Coming back to Pakistan industry - what they are doing in Sialkot and Gujranwala are the basis of a heavy and light engineering export boom.

Any heavy engineering shop supervisor in the West would agree that if these Pakistani men had a more guided education on component fabrication to abide by tolerances, and of course better automated machinery to increase production, they could easily triple their production rate while maintaining uniformity and quality using things like the Toyota QC system and there could be no possible competition to what heavy/light engg. item they could export. They are already doing wonders with the bare basics like a press brake and cutting torches and of course no CNC anything.

But I firmly believe investments in machinery and better processes will be forthcoming once Pakistanis decide to export overseas. What they produce right now is very appropriate for local consumption in Pakistan and locally tolerable price points to match. Already I am seeing older refurbished Japanese CNC machining centers being used in Gujranwala videos to speed up production.

The motorcycle components industry there is a vivid exemplar of such effort because - as @N.Siddiqui bhai commented on, people in villages don't really care what brand a motorcycle is, as long as it runs and is reliable up to a certain standard. And if parts are cheap, then that is even better, cherry on top.

Speaking for myself, If I was price sensitive, I could honestly care less if my motorcycle sprocket wheel was made from recycled steel plate derived from a cargo ship panel, which is actually rather high quality steel in any case. And the projected use (if I drove in slow speed village roads, not the Nürburgring or autobahn) would fit it just fine.

The point is - this sort of roadside-shop-industrialization took place in the late 1800s in Japan, late 1960s in Taiwan/Korea and twenty years later in China. Japanese quality control was even worse than this in the 1960's before they got a hold of Deming and increased their QC.

Some value addition or basic value addition is better than no value addition (and being horribly import dependent) which is the scenario in Bangladesh right now for almost all heavy and light engineering products.
Wholeheartedly agree, the current manufacturing output is enough to meet and exceed local requirements and this is definitely the path to higher end manufacturing.

However Bilal bhai, that road is tedious and requires planned investment for a long period of time. Integrating International demand into the supply chain forces organisations to invest and upgrade in capability. Usually incentivised by market forces and private capital, my point is Pakistan and Bangladesh to a certain extent stand at a precipice. The path forward is perilous and to extract maximum benefit from value addition would mean investing in change and upgradation.

With the abysmal record in planning and implementation (country building) from the countries in this subcontinent there is a real risk that dispite upgradation and higher manufacturing it would be unviable to produce it at an opportune cost to compete internationally. What pakistan, Bangladesh and To an extent India needs are entrepreneurs, global merchants, expats that can recognise and realise potential trade benefits in manufacturing here and exporting out.

Policy wise i feel GoP has given immense benefits to boost this sector but it hasn't translated to inflow of investments that would be naturally expected with such policies.
 
Wholeheartedly agree, the current manufacturing output is enough to meet and exceed local requirements and this is definitely the path to higher end manufacturing.

However Bilal bhai, that road is tedious and requires planned investment for a long period of time. Integrating International demand into the supply chain forces organisations to invest and upgrade in capability. Usually incentivised by market forces and private capital, my point is Pakistan and Bangladesh to a certain extent stand at a precipice. The path forward is perilous and to extract maximum benefit from value addition would mean investing in change and upgradation.

With the abysmal record in planning and implementation (country building) from the countries in this subcontinent there is a real risk that dispite upgradation and higher manufacturing it would be unviable to produce it at an opportune cost to compete internationally. What pakistan, Bangladesh and To an extent India needs are entrepreneurs, global merchants, expats that can recognise and realise potential trade benefits in manufacturing here and exporting out.

Policy wise i feel GoP has given immense benefits to boost this sector but it hasn't translated to inflow of investments that would be naturally expected with such policies.

Unlike seen in the movie "Field of Dreams" - if you build it, investors are not guaranteed to arrive in the subcontinent.

Investors will for certain look at the risks and weigh it with the amount they can invest. India is not in the same boat as Pakistan and Bangladesh are, if I may humbly say so.

India has its own large homegrown engineering talent pool, which Pakistan can match to some extent, but Bangladesh cannot. Pakistan and Bangladesh are also prone to lose a lot of their engineering talent pool by way of brain drain, and Bangladesh is famous in this area for doing so. In Bangladesh 80% of all engineers and doctors leave for the West to find a more stable and better life for their families, the gap is filled by Indian citizens. Bangladesh has not done enough to create a stable environment for its own expats to return.

However - Bangladesh has done one thing right, which is create enough SEZ/EPZ's and connected road and rail infra to them for large scale export activity. This will undoubtably spur investments and is paying dividends so far. It boasts Asia's largest SEZ/EPZ at 35,000 acres currently (1st phase, Mirsarai EPZ). There are Indian investments in that zone as well.

 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom