Is PA bloated? Can modernization increase if it hires at slow speed?

[faani83]

Pakistan army is around 600 K. Around 70% of the budget is alocated for salaries and pensions. It can reduce the size gradually by not replacing every retiring recruit & soldier. This will greatly increase modernization, acquizistion and better training. Moreover, more than 330 K paramilitary forces can be fully trained to fill the gap if any. What do this forum thinks?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Pakistan army is around 600 K. Around 70% of the budget is alocated for salaries and pensions. It can reduce the size gradually by not replacing every retiring recruit & soldier. This will greatly increase modernization, acquizistion and better training. Moreover, more than 330 K paramilitary forces can be fully trained to fill the gap if any. What do this forum thinks?

Interesting thoughts, but we have to factor in a few things.

The costs you've highlighted might matter from a fiscal standpoint, but not necessarily as much from a monetary viewpoint. Most of our defence procurement involves imports, which is where the strength of the PKR in relation to USD, GBP and Euro matters. In turn, we'd need a strong export regime to keep our foreign currency stocks up (and in turn, give PKR real value). As that weakens, so does our procurement ability (unless we indigenize fully).

Basically, if you do manage to cut into the fiscal costs of the Army a bit, how much of an impact will that have from a monetary standpoint? Probably not much, at least relative to the potential loss of utility of cutting manpower.

One thing I'd like folks to think about is that while we might not have the means to 'modernize-to-ideal' every single soldier, how many would it take to actually make a difference in South Asia? So, let's say we retain our 600K army, if we invest in raising 100 K to top standards at all levels, could that force make a difference in our region?

 

[Yaseen1]

i agree with this point that we should start from modernization of small no of troops and use them in combination with less modernized troops until our economy become strong

Interesting thoughts, but we have to factor in a few things.

The costs you've highlighted might matter from a fiscal standpoint, but not necessarily as much from a monetary viewpoint. Most of our defence procurement involves imports, which is where the strength of the PKR in relation to USD, GBP and Euro matters. In turn, we'd need a strong export regime to keep our foreign currency stocks up (and in turn, give PKR real value). As that weakens, so does our procurement ability (unless we indigenize fully).

Basically, if you do manage to cut into the fiscal costs of the Army a bit, how much of an impact will that have from a monetary standpoint? Probably not much, at least relative to the potential loss of utility of cutting manpower.

One thing I'd like folks to think about is that while we might not have the means to 'modernize-to-ideal' every single soldier, how many would it take to actually make a difference in South Asia? So, let's say we retain our 600K army, if we invest in raising 100 K to top standards at all levels, could that force make a difference in our region?

 

[Signalian]

So, let's say we retain our 600K army, if we invest in raising 100 K to top standards at all levels, could that force make a difference in our region?

What is a Top standard of training and whats an "average" standard of training ?

 

[S.Y.A]

Nope. No reduction. but, yes, modernization of equipment, with a focus on mobility and rapid response is needed.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

If we make domestically we can save money on labor cost at least bcz US, UK, Europe labor is more expensive.

Interesting thoughts, but we have to factor in a few things.

The costs you've highlighted might matter from a fiscal standpoint, but not necessarily as much from a monetary viewpoint. Most of our defence procurement involves imports, which is where the strength of the PKR in relation to USD, GBP and Euro matters. In turn, we'd need a strong export regime to keep our foreign currency stocks up (and in turn, give PKR real value). As that weakens, so does our procurement ability (unless we indigenize fully).

Basically, if you do manage to cut into the fiscal costs of the Army a bit, how much of an impact will that have from a monetary standpoint? Probably not much, at least relative to the potential loss of utility of cutting manpower.

One thing I'd like folks to think about is that while we might not have the means to 'modernize-to-ideal' every single soldier, how many would it take to actually make a difference in South Asia? So, let's say we retain our 600K army, if we invest in raising 100 K to top standards at all levels, could that force make a difference in our region?

 

[S.Y.A]

If we make domestically we can save money on labor cost at least bcz US, UK, Europe labor is more expensive.

some components will still have to be imported, like ICs for electronics. and unfortunately, we do not have a lot of expertise in material and metallurgy areas as well.

until and unless our exports pick up, and we start earning dollars, we cannot do much. also, private sector needs to invest as well, the govt cannot fund R&D of all of the stuff involved.

 

[Pakistan Ka Beta]

If we had that number of army in past how would have we managed ex FATA operations and LOC n indian border at the same time ? it is still less than half of indian army n Balochistan is still not 100 % cleared nor ex FATA . U dont know more than Army what to do n what not to do . Please avoid starting " useless " debate when India army n security forces strength in only Kashmir is around 9 lacs n after 5th August 2019 n dividing Indian occupied Kashmir into 2 are we really discussing it ???

 

[War Thunder]

Pakistan army is around 600 K. Around 70% of the budget is alocated for salaries and pensions. It can reduce the size gradually by not replacing every retiring recruit & soldier. This will greatly increase modernization, acquizistion and better training. Moreover, more than 330 K paramilitary forces can be fully trained to fill the gap if any. What do this forum thinks?

Troop numbers cannot be reduced keeping in mind the challenges and foes we face. Infact we have a shortage of troops to protect our vital assets like CPEC right now and in no position to defend a two - three front war if it was imposed on us.
We need more troops, modernization can wait.

 

[TNT]

Pakistan have very long borders and most are in hostile regions. Pakistan therefore requires huge numbers to just man the areas. Infact i am of the view that with growing population we need to gradually increase our nmbers. We also need modernisation but we dont need every soldier to be trained and modernized to high standards. If we have 600K soldiers, we would be potent enough even if half of them are modernized and highly trained while other half can be moderately modernized. I want Pakistan to atleast have a 1 million strong army by 2030 to 2040.

 

[Darth Vader]

Pakistan have very long borders and most are in hostile regions. Pakistan therefore requires huge numbers to just man the areas. Infact i am of the view that with growing population we need to gradually increase our nmbers. We also need modernisation but we dont need every soldier to be trained and modernized to high standards. If we have 600K soldiers, we would be potent enough even if half of them are modernized and highly trained while other half can be moderately modernized. I want Pakistan to atleast have a 1 million strong army by 2030 to 2040.

Pakistan can increase its Forces Power Projections with Drones & AI
Pakistan does need a big number as it has a large enemy india with huge numbers to counter that you need actual human resources.
But forcr multipliers will lower the response time and provide more flexibility.
1 Drones - Armed & Unarmed.
With better Pay load & Flight time and dedicated units for area Pakisan can keep them on continuous use with Armed Unit Pakistan can cover that area much quickly until the reinforcements come.
2 A.I
With A.I Pakistan can use deep learning to find out weakness and which area to improve.
Run continuously battle simulations and use them to improve forces themseleves

 

[Cuirassier]

Army strength is based on the threat assessment i.e size of the adversary. So can't expect any significant cuts until unless the boys next door have similar plans.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

What is a Top standard of training and whats an "average" standard of training ?

Not training, but equipment and support, e.g. new plate carriers, assault rifles, NVG, denser air support, etc

 

[Baltistan scouts]

If you look take Vietnam for e.g. their army reserves are 3 million strong and with a neighbour like china it needs to be but pakistan reserves are 500.000 pak army needs a million man army not including paramilitaries with further reserve of 1 million men to be called at short notice

 

[waz]

Troop reduction dear God what did I just read....Pakistan faces a million strong army just a a nose hair away, how do people propose to fight them? And no reserves are no substitute for a full time professional force.
Pakistan neither has the resources to increase the level of capital stock to balance out a reduction.
The nation has 220 million people if anything the size should go up.