Is Lockheed dumping F-16s on India?

[StraightShooter]

By 2021, there may or may not still exist an F-16 product line.

An F-16 pilot from the 169th Fighter Wing, South Carolina Air National Guard, flies a training mission over the North Carolina coast. U.S. Air Force photo by SMSgt Thomas Meneguin.
Analyst: India, not Greenville, to fill biggest future F-16 order
‘Greenville was always going to be an interim site, at best,’ says aerospace analyst Richard Aboulafia.

by Rudolph Bell

Lockheed disclosed the India plan on Monday at the Paris Air Show as part of its bid to capture an expected contract from the Indian government that reportedly would involve the purchase of up to 200 single-engine fighter jets.

Lockheed said it would make the latest generation of the F-16 in India — assuming it wins the contract — as part of a partnership with the aerospace and defense arm of Tata Group, the big Indian conglomerate.

That Tata subsidiary, Hyderabad-based Tata Advanced Systems Ltd., already supplies parts for Lockheed Martin’s C-130J military transport aircraft and for helicopters made by Lockheed subsidiary, Sikorsky Aircraft.

Lockheed spokesman John Losinger told UBJ that the India plan doesn’t change what the company previously said about filling future F-16 orders from the 16-hangar facility in southern Greenville County where it has refurbished military aircraft since 1984.

Losinger said Lockheed is pursuing F-16 sales to Bahrain, Indonesia, and other foreign countries, and the Greenville facility would perform final assembly for those orders if they come to be.

The Trump administration has reportedly informally notified Congress that it approves of Lockheed selling up to 19 F-16s to Bahrain, but a formal, public notice has not yet been issued.

Losinger said Lockheed hopes to nail down the sale to Bahrain by the end of this year or early next year.

He said the potential F-16 sale to Indonesia remains a subject of talks between the Asian country and the United States. He declined to give a number of aircraft on the table in that potential deal.

Losinger also said the Greenville facility would assemble some of the initial aircraft sold to India if Lockheed wins that contract.

As it waits to finalize future F-16 business, Lockheed expects to fill the last remaining order for the fighter — a sale to Iraq — by the end of the year at its factory in Fort Worth, Texas.

After that, the company will begin an 18-month process to move F-16 assembly to Greenville, but only once it nails down another order, Losinger said.

He said Lockheed agreed to make the F-16 in India because that is widely expected to be a requirement of any sale of the jet to the Indian government.

The letter of intent that Lockheed unveiled in Paris also provides for India to export Indian-made F-16s, which means India could be competing with Greenville for any work to upgrade about 3,200 F-16s currently in use by various countries, Losinger said.

Richard Aboulafia, an analyst with Teal Group, an aerospace consultancy in Fairfax, Va., said the F-16 is “on its last legs” and he doesn’t expect Greenville to make many of the supersonic jets.

“The F-16’s only real hope for a sustainable line is an India order, and that means building in India,” Aboulafia said in an email to UBJ from Paris.

Lockheed’s deal to make F-16s in India with Tata was “an inevitable agreement, and Greenville was always going to be an interim site, at best,” Aboulafia said. “Perhaps the Bahrain planes will be built [in Greenville], and conceivably a few others.”

Lockheed’s local complex, however, remains a potential location for assembly of a different supersonic military aircraft.

Lockheed has said it would perform final assembly of the South Korea-made T50A in Greenville if it wins a contract to supply 350 jets to the U.S. Air Force for training fighter pilots.

Lockheed Martin is competing with a Boeing/Saab alliance for that multibillion-dollar contract, as well as an Italian company called Leonardo.

https://upstatebusinessjournal.com/news/india-deal-raises-questions-f-16-work-greenville/

 

[John Reese]

F-16 Blk 70 radar

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

An F-16 pilot from the 169th Fighter Wing, South Carolina Air National Guard, flies a training mission over the North Carolina coast. U.S. Air Force photo by SMSgt Thomas Meneguin.
Analyst: India, not Greenville, to fill biggest future F-16 order
‘Greenville was always going to be an interim site, at best,’ says aerospace analyst Richard Aboulafia.

by Rudolph Bell

Lockheed disclosed the India plan on Monday at the Paris Air Show as part of its bid to capture an expected contract from the Indian government that reportedly would involve the purchase of up to 200 single-engine fighter jets.

Lockheed said it would make the latest generation of the F-16 in India — assuming it wins the contract — as part of a partnership with the aerospace and defense arm of Tata Group, the big Indian conglomerate.

That Tata subsidiary, Hyderabad-based Tata Advanced Systems Ltd., already supplies parts for Lockheed Martin’s C-130J military transport aircraft and for helicopters made by Lockheed subsidiary, Sikorsky Aircraft.

Lockheed spokesman John Losinger told UBJ that the India plan doesn’t change what the company previously said about filling future F-16 orders from the 16-hangar facility in southern Greenville County where it has refurbished military aircraft since 1984.

Losinger said Lockheed is pursuing F-16 sales to Bahrain, Indonesia, and other foreign countries, and the Greenville facility would perform final assembly for those orders if they come to be.

The Trump administration has reportedly informally notified Congress that it approves of Lockheed selling up to 19 F-16s to Bahrain, but a formal, public notice has not yet been issued.

Losinger said Lockheed hopes to nail down the sale to Bahrain by the end of this year or early next year.

He said the potential F-16 sale to Indonesia remains a subject of talks between the Asian country and the United States. He declined to give a number of aircraft on the table in that potential deal.

Losinger also said the Greenville facility would assemble some of the initial aircraft sold to India if Lockheed wins that contract.

As it waits to finalize future F-16 business, Lockheed expects to fill the last remaining order for the fighter — a sale to Iraq — by the end of the year at its factory in Fort Worth, Texas.

After that, the company will begin an 18-month process to move F-16 assembly to Greenville, but only once it nails down another order, Losinger said.

He said Lockheed agreed to make the F-16 in India because that is widely expected to be a requirement of any sale of the jet to the Indian government.

The letter of intent that Lockheed unveiled in Paris also provides for India to export Indian-made F-16s, which means India could be competing with Greenville for any work to upgrade about 3,200 F-16s currently in use by various countries, Losinger said.

Richard Aboulafia, an analyst with Teal Group, an aerospace consultancy in Fairfax, Va., said the F-16 is “on its last legs” and he doesn’t expect Greenville to make many of the supersonic jets.

“The F-16’s only real hope for a sustainable line is an India order, and that means building in India,” Aboulafia said in an email to UBJ from Paris.

Lockheed’s deal to make F-16s in India with Tata was “an inevitable agreement, and Greenville was always going to be an interim site, at best,” Aboulafia said. “Perhaps the Bahrain planes will be built [in Greenville], and conceivably a few others.”

Lockheed’s local complex, however, remains a potential location for assembly of a different supersonic military aircraft.

Lockheed has said it would perform final assembly of the South Korea-made T50A in Greenville if it wins a contract to supply 350 jets to the U.S. Air Force for training fighter pilots.

Lockheed Martin is competing with a Boeing/Saab alliance for that multibillion-dollar contract, as well as an Italian company called Leonardo.

https://upstatebusinessjournal.com/news/india-deal-raises-questions-f-16-work-greenville/

That is how the thread started.
Unless LM gets another order, the F-16 production line will be dormant for four years,
before a decision from India.
A lot can happen in that time.

The danger is subcontractors obsoleting their components, making the F-16 unproducable
without a redesign, which can take years.

 

[ghauri05]

A question to all Pakistanis who are hailing that we will be getting our 5th gen by the time india inducts F-16s
How many 5th gen fighters pak can afford??? can it be over a hundred say 150-200??..only then we will have a real chance over IAF..
bcoz if we are going to induct 36-50. that won't tilt situation in our favor as india will also be getting 5th gen. and if we are committed to limited numbers then we should surely look into some other 4++ fighter asap...it may be typhoon or Su-35...otherwise PAF is gonna be at huge disadvantage.

One more thing JF-17 is meant to replace F-7s...not to be a front liner
We need to be pragmatic if we want to get better of our enemy.
they are replacing their old migs with f-16s..our current front liner.

See the difference here...it shows the incapability n weakness in PAF's decision making

 

[Ryuzaki]

F-16 will not be bought.It is only to put pressure on HAL

 

[Windjammer]

You see ...you are not even in location ... it is akin to the claim of flying over Siachen by your COAS when nearest PA post is west of Bila Fond La on it's northern edge behind a rocky outcrop due North of old PA Quaid post now IA Bana Post

Kindly point out as where did i mentioned the location, you OTOH are proving that to cover one lie, a person ends up telling half a dozen more fibs, firstly what does COAS has to do with the air sorties over Siachen.... it was conducted by the ACM of the PAF, secondly how does naming some posts on the ground relates to what actually transpired few hundred feet in the air, you are way off topic and location mate.

Need I give you more specific location? Neither your fellow countrymen who are pros nor I would like to reach a level where we start marking each other's posts and locations specifically on map, so I am sure my description above ... vague as it is, is sufficient for you to understand that I know what I am typing.

Once again you are mixing Apples and Oranges, why do you keep dragging ground environment in a discussion on aerial scenario.

Also ... you would be real hard pressed to find MKI there (along LC) and your Kargil quip here proves the hot "wind" just left by you .... otherwise you would have sourced it. Or even put up a photoshopped image

Since you are obviously lost for argument, you have no choice but to resort to your cheap shot skills....obviously you have no knowledge on the subject hence you are digressing in all sort....that's not the credentials of a genius but a joker.

Facts are good things to stick to, keeps one credible; you can keep calling atom bigger than a molecule, but it does not make it a credible claim.

I suggest you let Einstein R.I.P and for once make an effort and look up a certain F/L Gaurav Chibber (Late) to enlighten your self, the only thing close to Photoshop is the claim that i have busted elsewhere.

Similarly, don't make a claim which you can not even make a base for, because you have no idea of the platforms that are flying there. The moment you said MKI in LC, you lost credibility ... your bravado as above is just a waft of stale hot air.


PS: you do post good posts at times, and it is a pleasure to read them, but when, in your zest to prove Pakistani Supremacy (and I seriously appreciate your enthusiasm and devotion for that) you start posting crap (quite a number of times) then once in a while I do come and hover on your post.

Firstly before indulging in a debate, for which you obviously have no knowledge, i suggest you first do some homework, just because, PAF did some mission in Siachen sector doesn't mean that all events took place there, hell you don't even know when and where did the JF-17 Vis MKI incident(s) materialized and here you are giving lectures.... very poor on your behalf. Just to remind you, Siachen is not the only hot spot between the two countries and in any case, hardly much air activity takes place there.....but since you portray to be the local guide in that area, let's see if you can pick out and name the features where PAF conducted missions recently.

 

[Hellfire]

@Windjammer

Let me quote your original post:

Baba Ji, why not ask IAF about what role the JF-17 is playing with at least one MKI pilot with a particular incident during recent hostilities on LOC.

Post #22

Intrigued on this interesting figment of imagination wherein an aircraft that has not been in J&K over the past year at all, is suddenly in J&K, I posted:

How nice!!!

So you know of the incident? Well, JF -17 got locked on pretty well out, isn't it? Unfortunately for it, we had a bird up in the air scanning deep into your airspace. Shame! But then it is really a cat and mouse game, one day you get a lock, one day you don't. One day you get locked one day other get's locked ....

Oh wait, is that what you are referring to? Or were you trying to spin it as a reverse?

Well news for you, there was no Su-30 MKI there that day, but an Indian Mig-29UPG which locked it

A certain Squadron Leader G

I am sure you can be rest assured that I am quite well aware of your attempt at twisting tales here (if it indeed is the incident that actually took place and you somehow know of it)....

Post #63

And I get the outstanding Genius' greatest contribution as under (ignore if it sounds like a troll who is posting this, I am assured that this member is a Genius in his own rights )

Seems you have been given another dose of the Kargil (Non) lock on episode. LoL.
Except no award for the Indian pilot this time.
Well let me remind you it's not the PAF which goes on national TV to boost about what's ridiculed as cricket score. (OMG is it off topic troll attempt?)
The fact that PAF is sending JF-17 to CAP over LOC instead of F-16s and a certain W/C played loud and sustained tone in a MKI pilots headphone should make interesting reading....some day....if ever PAF decides to disclose....which is highly unlikely.

Post #66


Firstly, it is boast not boost.

Secondly, very interesting.

Apparently the 'loud tone' in a MKI pilot's headphones (did not know @Windjammer can hear what the supposed MKI pilot was hearing!!! So you can apparate now, can you? Too much of Harry Porter eh?) was told to you by the pilot, is that what you are trying to tell? Or would you agree that this was just a fart in air facing downwind? Can any logical mind even accept this, apart from those who are on meth? Or maybe crack?

And what an excellent rejoinder, Kargil and the Cricket ... I mean, talk about deliberately swerving as you get pinned and to try and deviate the topic, hoping that the bullshit you are just peddling, will somehow be ignored and you will get away by actually deviating the thread. Impressive. Lucky you, you have the official sanction to post bullshit and not be pinned for it.(@Slav Defence please do note the sequence of discussion so far. Interesting twists and turns and how this works out in the end)

Kindly point out as where did i mentioned the location,

Refer your post #22. LOC ... Line of Control right? Or was it Lock?

LC or LOC ... is the region from Manwar in Poonch till NJ 9842 ..... again, no MKIs based at Srinagar and yes, they do not undertake sorties along this entire stretch. The task of CAP is with Mig 21s, Jags (for fam/currency flights only) and Mig 29s. So when you give me the bullshit of Su-30 MKI, it is time for you to get off your...genius. I am pretty darned sure the IAF's AOC J&K and FACs will be knowing pretty darned better than you as to what assets are being rotated into the area.

So do not assume to teach me about IAF platforms flying in the sector.

you OTOH are proving that to cover one lie,

What? Your lie? Why would I cover your lie when it is more fun stripping it?

I have not even claimed anything yet, simply gave you the reverse of what bullshit you are shovelling. Now since you are being nailed for being a bullshit peddler, you have resorted to change in tack from the retard comment of Kargil to insinuating that I am a liar. Are you calling me a liar?

a person ends up telling half a dozen more fibs, firstly what does COAS has to do with the air sorties over Siachen.

You do understand that COAS is also the Chief of the Air Staff right? Or have you renamed the top appointment to ACM now?

it was conducted by the ACM of the PAF, secondly how does naming some posts on the ground relates to what actually transpired few hundred feet in the air, you are way off topic and location mate.

Refer your post #66 .. that is being way off topic mate. Location is LOC ... or you have unilaterally given up the claims over Siachen as per the Agreement of 1948 now? Decide man, too confounding

Since you are obviously lost for argument, you have no choice but to resort to your cheap shot skills....obviously you have no knowledge on the subject hence you are digressing in all sort....that's not the credentials of a genius but a joker.

Take a sequential read of the posts so far between you and I. You will be quite surprised that you are looking the dunce here.

I suggest you let Einstein R.I.P and for once make an effort and look up a certain F/L Gaurav Chibber (Late) to enlighten your self, the only thing close to Photoshop is the claim that i have busted elsewhere.

Again off topic crap by you. Source your claim as of Post # 22. Had you stuck to that, you would have not derailed the thread (something you are now anxiously pointing out, hoping a mod now intervenes to 'rescue' you )

Firstly before indulging in a debate, for which you obviously have no knowledge, i suggest you first do some homework, just because, PAF did some mission in Siachen sector doesn't mean that all events took place there, hell you don't even know when and where did the JF-17 Vis MKI incident(s) materialized and here you are giving lectures.... very poor on your behalf. Just to remind you, Siachen is not the only hot spot between the two countries and in any case, hardly much air activity takes place there.....but since you portray to be the local guide in that area, let's see if you can pick out and name the features where PAF conducted missions recently.


View attachment 405509

This is Siachen

Advise to you, learn to practice what you preach. Do YOUR research ... I know the dates darling, exactly when an 'aggressor' was played out ... just you do not peddle bullshit without sourcing.

There is no 'Siachen' Sector, a lie peddled by you. The glacier, in its entire width is in picture above. Left is the Saltoro Ranges occupied by Indian Forces, right - the Karakorram.

The picture is taken facing due North

Compare your pics .. probably over Jalhari Glacier and along axis towards Baltoro Kangri way due west of Saltoro (not even Siachen is a yardstick now)

Stick to the topic and do not post your figments of imagination as truth.

 

[Windjammer]

@Windjammer

Let me quote your original post:

Baba Ji, why not ask IAF about what role the JF-17 is playing with at least one MKI pilot with a particular incident during recent hostilities on LOC.

Post #22

Intrigued on this interesting figment of imagination wherein an aircraft that has not been in J&K over the past year at all, is suddenly in J&K, I posted:

How nice!!!

So you know of the incident? Well, JF -17 got locked on pretty well out, isn't it? Unfortunately for it, we had a bird up in the air scanning deep into your airspace. Shame! But then it is really a cat and mouse game, one day you get a lock, one day you don't. One day you get locked one day other get's locked ....

Oh wait, is that what you are referring to? Or were you trying to spin it as a reverse?

Well news for you, there was no Su-30 MKI there that day, but an Indian Mig-29UPG which locked it

A certain Squadron Leader G

I am sure you can be rest assured that I am quite well aware of your attempt at twisting tales here (if it indeed is the incident that actually took place and you somehow know of it)....

Post #63

And I get the outstanding Genius' greatest contribution as under (ignore if it sounds like a troll who is posting this, I am assured that this member is a Genius in his own rights )

Seems you have been given another dose of the Kargil (Non) lock on episode. LoL.
Except no award for the Indian pilot this time.
Well let me remind you it's not the PAF which goes on national TV to boost about what's ridiculed as cricket score. (OMG is it off topic troll attempt?)
The fact that PAF is sending JF-17 to CAP over LOC instead of F-16s and a certain W/C played loud and sustained tone in a MKI pilots headphone should make interesting reading....some day....if ever PAF decides to disclose....which is highly unlikely.

Post #66


Firstly, it is boast not boost.

Secondly, very interesting.

Apparently the 'loud tone' in a MKI pilot's headphones (did not know @Windjammer can hear what the supposed MKI pilot was hearing!!! So you can apparate now, can you? Too much of Harry Porter eh?) was told to you by the pilot, is that what you are trying to tell? Or would you agree that this was just a fart in air facing downwind? Can any logical mind even accept this, apart from those who are on meth? Or maybe crack?

And what an excellent rejoinder, Kargil and the Cricket ... I mean, talk about deliberately swerving as you get pinned and to try and deviate the topic, hoping that the bullshit you are just peddling, will somehow be ignored and you will get away by actually deviating the thread. Impressive. Lucky you, you have the official sanction to post bullshit and not be pinned for it.(@Slav Defence please do note the sequence of discussion so far. Interesting twists and turns and how this works out in the end)




Refer your post #22. LOC ... Line of Control right? Or was it Lock?

LC or LOC ... is the region from Manwar in Poonch till NJ 9842 ..... again, no MKIs based at Srinagar and yes, they do not undertake sorties along this entire stretch. The task of CAP is with Mig 21s, Jags (for fam/currency flights only) and Mig 29s. So when you give me the bullshit of Su-30 MKI, it is time for you to get off your...genius. I am pretty darned sure the IAF's AOC J&K and FACs will be knowing pretty darned better than you as to what assets are being rotated into the area.

So do not assume to teach me about IAF platforms flying in the sector.



What? Your lie? Why would I cover your lie when it is more fun stripping it?

I have not even claimed anything yet, simply gave you the reverse of what bullshit you are shovelling. Now since you are being nailed for being a bullshit peddler, you have resorted to change in tack from the retard comment of Kargil to insinuating that I am a liar. Are you calling me a liar?




You do understand that COAS is also the Chief of the Air Staff right? Or have you renamed the top appointment to ACM now?



Refer your post #66 .. that is being way off topic mate. Location is LOC ... or you have unilaterally given up the claims over Siachen as per the Agreement of 1948 now? Decide man, too confounding




Take a sequential read of the posts so far between you and I. You will be quite surprised that you are looking the dunce here.



Again off topic crap by you. Source your claim as of Post # 22. Had you stuck to that, you would have not derailed the thread (something you are now anxiously pointing out, hoping a mod now intervenes to 'rescue' you )





This is Siachen

View attachment 405515


Advise to you, learn to practice what you preach. Do YOUR research ... I know the dates darling, exactly when an 'aggressor' was played out ... just you do not peddle bullshit without sourcing.

There is no 'Siachen' Sector, a lie peddled by you. The glacier, in its entire width is in picture above. Left is the Saltoro Ranges occupied by Indian Forces, right - the Karakorram.

The picture is taken facing due North

Compare your pics .. probably over Jalhari Glacier way due west of Saltoro (not even Siachen is a yardstick now)

Stick to the topic and do not post your figments of imagination as truth.

Let me rephrase your favorite word read manner for your own benefit... since you know jack all of what's deployed on the LOC.

 

[Hellfire]

No you idiot, you who doesn't even know the ranks that COAS....is Chief of army staff and ACM is an Airchief Marshal are peddling your BS here.....learn some basics before mouthing off nonsense.

Personalising are you? You do realise that acronym of COAS when used in air force circles internationally is also written as CoAS (some use CAS but it may confuse with CAS(O)) and denotes the Highest Rank officer designated as Chief of the Air Staff?

Of course since you are not aware of this basic fact, and assume that I do not know the rank structure ... leave alone the Peace and War establishments of the forces, simply shows how far below the level of idiocy (as you called me an Idiot) are you.

Truly, a fine example of how when bullshit gets pinned, you squirm and launch personalised comments

Do not troll the thread now

 

[Windjammer]

Personalising are you? You do realise that acronym of COAS when used in air force circles internationally is also written as CoAS (some use CAS but it may confuse with CAS(O)) and denotes the Highest Rank officer designated as Chief of the Air Staff?

Of course since you are not aware of this basic fact, and assume that I do not know the rank structure ... leave alone the Peace and War establishments of the forces, simply shows how far below the level of idiocy (as you called me an Idiot) are you.

Truly, a fine example of how when bullshit gets pinned, you squirm and launch personalised comments

Do not troll the thread now

Personalizing ?? is it....should have thought about it before repeatedly using the term BS to make yourself more assertive......before you head out to some other Universe, we were talking about India/Pakistan scenario, and now that you are moving goalposts, nowhere it's written as COAS rather CAS and ACM.
Whatever level i go it will be still above your cheap shots who was even nit picking between boost and boast.
And here live and learn before trying to teach others.
Chief of the Air Staff is the commander and the highest-ranking officer of the Indian Air Force.[1] The position is abbreviated as CAS in the Indian Air Force cables & communication, and is usually held by a four-star officer of the rank Air Chief Marshal. The current CAS is Air Chief Marshal Birender Singh Dhanoa who took office on 31 December 2016, following the retirement of Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha.[2][3][4]

As of March 19, 2015 the Chief of the Air Staff is Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman.

 

[Shane]

As I posted elsewhere, lets hope that India selects F16. With the Turkish and Emirati experiences in perspective, lets just say that we may already have "data" on the most advance F16s, block70 will have more goodies but it will be pretty much discovered in due course.

Talking of acronyms by the way, i think that the west missed out on an opportunity to mint some serious money here. I am sure that if there was a three engined fighter out there, India would have come up with an acronym for its requirement and surely gone gone for it and that too in numbers.

Its this strange doctrine of hatred that leads Indian decision makers to look for procuring quality western weapons that they have failed to produce locally despite working on similar projects for far longer than China and more recently even Pakistan.


hellfire will surely second me on this well known rumor in IAF since he knows so much about IAF and what not. The word going around in well known circles is about the virtually rejected "half assed " LCA, coined as such by former CAS when making the case for a western single engined fighter to his contemporaries. I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as i did writing.

 

[randomradio]

As I posted elsewhere, lets hope that India selects F16. With the Turkish and Emirati experiences in perspective, lets just say that we may already have "data" on the most advance F16s, block70 will have more goodies but it will be pretty much discovered in due course.

Talking of acronyms by the way, i think that the west missed out on an opportunity to mint some serious money here. I am sure that if there was a three engined fighter out there, India would have come up with an acronym for its requirement and surely gone gone for it and that too in numbers.

Its this strange doctrine of hatred that leads Indian decision makers to look for procuring quality western weapons that they have failed to produce locally despite working on similar projects for far longer than China and more recently even Pakistan.


hellfire will surely second me on this well known rumor in IAF since he knows so much about IAF and what not. The word going around in well known circles is about the virtually rejected "half assed " LCA, coined as such by former CAS when making the case for a western single engined fighter to his contemporaries. I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as i did writing.

LCA has not been rejected. We will have 200 of those bad boys.

 

[Hellfire]

Personalizing ?? is it....should have thought about it before repeatedly using the term BS to make yourself more assertive......before you head out to some other Universe, we were talking about India/Pakistan scenario, and now that you are moving goalposts, nowhere it's written as COAS rather CAS and ACM.
Whatever level i go it will be still above your cheap shots who was even nit picking between boost and boast.
And here live and learn before trying to teach others.

For the bold part: Pray do compare the dates of joining of both members

Slowly, goalposts are being created and established by you and shifted by you in your own assessment. For me it remains the interesting post at #22 by you. That was the only aspect that drew my attention here.

I am merely asking you to source your claim at #22 and how exactly you know that the MKI pilot heard the "loud & sustained tone"

Waiting for that. I have exceeded the number of posts I make in a month in PDF right now

As I posted elsewhere, lets hope that India selects F16. With the Turkish and Emirati experiences in perspective, lets just say that we may already have "data" on the most advance F16s, block70 will have more goodies but it will be pretty much discovered in due course.

It is only on the forums that the world is stuck on Information Warfare (knowing information that was previously guarded is one step of the same). The world has moved to information denial. So, even knowing about a platform does not translate into knowing it's tasks/employment doctrines as per individual user etc.

War fighting is not limited to knowing a platform or having the most sophisticated platform, but of using it correctly and effectively. It is, at the end of the day, the quantum of force that can be applied at a point, that achieves a breakthrough in an enemy defended battlespace.

Rest of your post is a waste of thought processes. There is no 'doctrine of hatred' which guides the threat assessment by either India or by Pakistan or China. First of all, if you want to be a serious member here and not join the overwhelming trolls, get this straightened out. Armed Forces across all three nations are highly professional. The amount of crap that members post here, makes them the target of that crap itself, as shortly they start believing it themselves.

You will be hard pressed to find any PA or PAF member here in PDF, indulging in such posts or even on Indian side, any one who has served in forces, posting crap like that around to demean the forces, even of their enemy

As for LCA, it is a project. Not an aircraft. It will be coming in to shore up the number of aircrafts India goes in for in terms of SE. The TEs will cover the heavier pay loads needed, while SE will cater to point defence/interdictory roles. predominantly.

64 squadron airforce is envisaged in 2 decades, and majority of IAF will need replacement by end of next 10 years.

LCA has not been rejected. We will have 200 of those bad boys.

@Shane

This post perfectly sums up the numbers you may see under Project LCA. Please differentiate Tejas from LCA, the former is a part of LCA while the latter is a project on a 'going concern' principle.

 

[cyborga8a]

oh no, pakistanis would have to ask India for spare parts that would be some phone call.

 

[Windjammer]

For the bold part: Pray do compare the dates of joining of both members

And what does that prove.....I'm spending more time on the forum while you are allegedly shifting snow.

Slowly, goalposts are being created and established by you and shifted by you in your own assessment. For me it remains the interesting post at #22 by you. That was the only aspect that drew my attention here.

Is that a fact, wonder who dragged in some posts in Siachen in a discussion about incidents in the air....learn to stick to the topic.

I am merely asking you to source your claim at #22 and how exactly you know that the MKI pilot heard the "loud & sustained tone"

Waiting for that. I have exceeded the number of posts I make in a month in PDF right now

There you go again, getting yourself all muddled up in catch 22 position... irony you keep repeating post ~22....well this is what i said in that post not what you keep on. blabbering.

Baba Ji, why not ask IAF about what role the JF-17 is playing with at least one MKI pilot with a particular incident during recent hostilities on LOC.

As for the tone in the Indian pilots headset....
let me put you out of your misery with a somewhat similar incident that occurred during the Kargil conflict.

F/L Gaurav Chibber incident - The true story

Armed with four AA-10 and two Magic-2 [or probably AA-11] missiles, Gaurav Chibber a MiG-29 pilot acquired a lock on at two PAF F-16As orbiting over Skardu. The F-16s at once repeated their drill of engine to idle thrust, deploying a cloud of chaff and dropping down from 20,000ft to 500ft AGL with AA Radar on standby mode. Gaurav Chibber must have had a wry smile on his face under his helmet when he lost the lock-on. Angry with the avionics Gaurav again searched for the Vipers when he felt that the avionics of his aircraft had jammed. Gaurav tried all methods and probably had his A/A Radar functional again when he saw no sign of any aircraft in his radar. He felt something suspicious and decided to move out. As he started his way back to the base he saw two tracks appearing suddenly on his A/A Radar from behind. He quickly took evasive action but was relieved that he is well inside his territory and the tracks turned back in Pakistan.
As fate would have it, F/L Gaurav Chibber met his end when the Mig-29 ,he was flying crashed in Bilaspur distric of Himachal Pardesh on August 6, 1999.

Flight Lieutenant Gaurav Chibber

Service No 22926 Branch F(P)

Name : Gaurav Chibber Rank Flight Lieutenant
Date of Birth:
Date Commissioned 18 Jun 94 (153 Course) Service End Died in Service 06 Aug 99

Awards and Decorations
Number of Awards: 1

Vayu Sena Medal (Gallantry)
Flt Lt Gaurav Chibber 22926 F(P) Award Date Announced 15 Aug 99
Details :
229 Sqn MiG-29 For CAP and escort missions

Unit : 223 Squadron