Is literacy level a basic measure of morality, humanity, honesty & character of a nation?

[Jungibaaz]

So if illiteracy is not the cause, whats the cause of this moral decay?

You take the rape/stoning incidents to the drivers stealing petrol from the cars etc

This has to be the best thread opened on PDF, ever.

Compare india/pak to the west

Question for the desis living in the west

I am talking about basic human qualities not generally needing the danda of the strict law implementation

Please keep religion out of it - no one can read let alone understand / implement the Quran if he is illiterate

I feel to a large extent it is a contributory factor. Education that is.
The fact that people here are well off is another reason for them to even have the luxury of adopting a different way of thinking.

And yes it's a luxury, and the vast majority of PDF is truly lucky to have somehow been born in it or adopted it.

Although I don't have time to write much today, I've bookmarked this thread.

 

[Manticore]

Are you referring to literacy or education? These are two different things when you ask this question, I think you meant education and not literacy:

"Is literacy level a basic measure of morality, humanity, honesty & character of a nation?"

You maybe right -- in pak I think a person who can write his name is called literate whereas in india its 5th class pass. So education level might be a better term here

 

[Kompromat]

Its not. Some of the wisest and the most cordial people i've met were not formally literate.

 

[Contrarian]

You maybe right -- in pak I think a person who can write his name is called literate whereas in india its 5th class pass. So education level might be a better term here

Officially, in India you are literate if you can write down one sentence. Its a sham.

Its not. Some of the wisest and the most cordial people i've met were not formally literate.

Yes, and these people non literate but wise and cordial people are generally brought up in traditional environment or traditional societies when they grew up. So they hold to those values.

 

[scorpionx]

Apparently, Education and basic human qualities like morality,humanity or honesty are individual in nature. We have seen copious number of incidents where folks,belonging to lowest economic stratum have found a place in front pages of news paper for their remarkable demonstration of honesty or humanity. There are ample examples of uneducated societies in tribal belts of India,where people shows extraordinary qualities like cleanliness ( for example the Santhals in Bengal), unmatched courage and adorable simplicity (the Gurkhas) who have least opportunity to basic human needs like education and a minimum guarantee of wages.On the other hand,we have seen the massive diffusion of corruption and immorality in educated higher and middle income group like Service classes,doctors,engineers,lawyers and the mercantile classes.We have seen the worst abuse of humanity during the 40's in World's most educated societies.So, education does not deem fit as a criteria for basic measure of morality or other qualities.


But,when we see it as a broader notion of an ideal model state,education in terms of a political and social consciousness does play a vital part in building the character of a nation. The factors that differentiates an ideal nation state,for instance any west European country which scores high in human quality indexes with comparatively backward societies in South Asia, are the two successive revolutions in the late eighteenth century Europe and America. The industrial revolution created a new economic class which became highly conscious of their political and social rights after the series of revolution all over Europe in late eighteenth century.

Within hundreds years of French revolution, "Rights of man" were extended up to the poorest patches of Europe. Women folks were allowed to marched into the newly formed industrial working class. From 1891,the British reference book Men of the time changed it's title to Men and women of the time. This profound change in shaping of social and political consciousness of the proletariat, the rise of feminist agitations and movement for sexual liberalism over a span of 100 years build a foundation of illuminated spirit.That is why today we see a number of West European and Scandinavian states in the higher order of social index charts (With Asian countries like Singapore,Hong Kong and off course Sri Lanka with their never ceasing spring boards).


Orthodox nationalists might not agree with the above views neither I am an expert in Social sciences but this is how I feel.

 

[Audio]

So if illiteracy is not the cause, whats the cause of this moral decay?

Blindly believing the local religious authority when he pumps you up full of hate.
Belief that once you marry someone, you own their body and feelings.

You disqalified religion, but sorry to say, it can all be traced to the Quran and the blind belief everything that was written a thousand years ago is still the best option today. Some universal truths, like be good to people ofcourse still are relevant, but there's not only good (benevolent) things written in there. And people believe it. They believe it even when literate and educated, because societal pressure prevents progression and herd instinct kicks in.
And that pressure comes from vested interests, from religious authorities onwards. After all, no denomination likes to see it's faitful getting smart all of a sudden and questioning the very lines on which they based their "being well off".

You're stuck in the past, plain and simple. Renaissance needed. Badly.

 

[Koovie]

Well first of all, the term "morality" and "character" are way too subjective to be used to compare different nations with completely different cultures. For me, its about holding together as a nation/society, being tolerant and having more equality.

That being said, one can notice that nations with higher literacy rates not only have better socioeconomic indices but also have more social peace, stability and less violence, sure there are exceptions and crimes happen in every society, but by the rule of thumb it seems to be the case.

To answer the question, I dont think that subjective things like morality or character can be measured to compare different nations, but virtues like humanity could be measured by looking at certain socioeconomic indices like the Gini coefficient (which measures the distribution of wealth) and by examining the level of social peace, crime rates etc in a country.

Literacy levels alone wont cut it and I also believe that all those factors are connected to each other.

 

[Indischer]

Compare india/pak to the west

Question for the desis living in the west


I am talking about basic human qualities not generally needing the danda of the strict law implementation

Please keep religion out of it - no one can read let alone understand / implement the Quran if he is illiterate

I think the character of the Nation has more to do with culture and less to do with literacy. Culture defines the values that one holds most dearly to the heart, not literacy. Dissemination of those values, however can be faster if literacy levels are high.

 

[Dubious]

Compare india/pak to the west

Question for the desis living in the west


I am talking about basic human qualities not generally needing the danda of the strict law implementation

Please keep religion out of it - no one can read let alone understand / implement the Quran if he is illiterate

Not really...We also have a new class or hybrid called paray likhay jahil...Where you are educated and have knowledge but prefer stupidity for either fame, money or just plain stupidity!

 

[livingdead]

You maybe right -- in pak I think a person who can write his name is called literate whereas in india its 5th class pass. So education level might be a better term here

no, same criteria in India..
I am surprised many pakistani still see grass to be greener on our side.

 

[Indischer]

Not really...We also have a new class or hybrid called paray likhay jahil...Where you are educated and have knowledge but prefer stupidity for either fame, money or just plain stupidity!

High standard of ethics are notoriously difficult to maintain in today's dog-eat-dog World.

 

[livingdead]

Blindly believing the local religious authority when he pumps you up full of hate.
Belief that once you marry someone, you own their body and feelings.

You disqalified religion, but sorry to say, it can all be traced to the Quran and the blind belief everything that was written a thousand years ago is still the best option today. Some universal truths, like be good to people ofcourse still are relevant, but there's not only good (benevolent) things written in there. And people believe it. They believe it even when literate and educated, because societal pressure prevents progression and herd instinct kicks in.
And that pressure comes from vested interests, from religious authorities onwards. After all, no denomination likes to see it's faitful getting smart all of a sudden and questioning the very lines on which they based their "being well off".

You're stuck in the past, plain and simple. Renaissance needed. Badly.

even if you remove religion from equation, the question remains.
so why not reply in more generic terms (this is not about pakistan only)

 

[Dubious]

High standard of ethics are notoriously difficult to maintain in today's dog-eat-dog World.

Not if you have your priorities right...

 

[Indischer]

Not if you have your priorities right...

Our priorities can have good intentions, but we aren't really masters of our actions in an absolutist sense. A lot of external factors and actors influence our actions. However, we can always try our level best to stick to our ideals.

 

[Dubious]

Blindly believing the local religious authority when he pumps you up full of hate.
Belief that once you marry someone, you own their body and feelings.

Neither is adviced by the religion you have genius rapists with no religion...who think they own everything esp in the sense of control of the mind! Then we have corrupt politicians who also think they own the law...

You disqalified religion, but sorry to say, it can all be traced to the Quran and the blind belief everything that was written a thousand years ago is still the best option today. Some universal truths, like be good to people ofcourse still are relevant, but there's not only good (benevolent) things written in there. And people believe it. They believe it even when literate and educated, because societal pressure prevents progression and herd instinct kicks in.

I beg to differ however since this thread is not about religion try taking it in a bigger point of view...A society well educated like the West still hasnt been able to get rid of say at least 50% of the crime...

And that pressure comes from vested interests, from religious authorities onwards. After all, no denomination likes to see it's faitful getting smart all of a sudden and questioning the very lines on which they based their "being well off".

You're stuck in the past, plain and simple. Renaissance needed. Badly.

This was even the pattern when Paganism was the "so called religion" or even when people believe everything was god or even when there were no god fearing people and they indulged in crap! Quit blaming religion like you have some phobia...this can be seen in every god damn society from past till present...This literally depicts men, power and society, thinking...Almost every religion tries to preach equality yet no one hears those words and when it is not found in society then everyone blames society!

It is rather funny how people pick up words out of religious books and try to fit them in a society that refuses or isnt even practicing the religion to begin with!

I will give you an example Quran says dont discriminate yet we have societies discriminating on basis of status, colour, class, caste and whatever they can categorize! Saying this was caused by religion is purely showing lack or even no grasp of understanding and this is exactly what the local religious authority are doing and you are doing exactly the same only on the opposite end!

Our priorities can have good intentions, but we aren't really masters of our actions in an absolutist sense. A lot of external factors and actors influence our actions. However, we can always try our level best to stick to our ideals.

If you are not the master of your actions, who is?

A murderer may use a similar excuse after stabbing your family member, will you buy that excuse?

If external factors can influence you to the point that you cant distinguish good and bad how can society distinguish you from an mentally challenged man who would even touch shit coz he isnt right in the mind? Such a man really isnt master over his actions of if you have say muscular dystrophy and somehow managed to stab someone ...then we can say your actions really might not be yours, and external factors like lack of control on muscles led to the "accident"...

If external factors can influence you soo much that it can kill your will to do good, then you def have pathetic willpower!