Is it time for Pakistan to reveal the Taimur(ICBM) ?

[That Guy]

As always, the debate shouldn't end up with whether Pakistan has the tech or not, this simple fact is that Pakistan does not need an ICBM.

The US is not a military threat.

Pakistan's problems with the US are diplomatic, and they'll only be fixed through diplomacy. If the US thought military solution was the only real way forward, they'd have tried to invade Pakistan decades ago.

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[Edit]: To expand on my comment of why the US isn't a military threat; Pakistan is the US' only ally in South Asia, that's it, there is nothing else to add here. India is not a US ally, Sri Lanka is not a US ally, BD is not, Bhutan is not....etc.

Losing Pakistan means losing the only real influence the US has in the region, and US strategists will not let that happen.

"But," you start, "what about India and the US signing a bunch of deals? What about the whole naval access treaty thingy?"

Good questions, little timmy, but in the end, the first question's answer is simply "business deals". The second questions answers is, "a strategic decision that India would have rather avoided, but had to do, in order to counter China's growing influence in the Indian ocean region".

India is a good business and military customer for now, but the Indian nation's ambitions won't allow itself to align with the US. It will use the US, until it is powerful enough that it will no longer need the US. By that time, India will also become a global rival to the US (and China), and Pakistan will once again come back into focus.

This is why India can never really be a US ally, and why Pakistan will always be in the equations of any future US planning in the region. No one else can fill the shoes that Pakistan fills...

...no one else wants to.

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We have no missiles designed to hit anything beyond the threat we face from India, that's a necessary part of our deterrence and all of our focus is dedicated to that end. We have no ICBM, nor do we need one. Especially not for the US.

Yes we have uneasy relations with the US, but we're not enemies. We've never been at war with them and probably never will be. And even if the situation was worse, what would an ICBM change?

The US' greatest offensive tools for jumped-up pipsqueak nations who've acquired nukes isn't war, it's sanctions, economic damage, diplomatic and political damage at every level. They can do us harm without firing a single bullet, what's more, far from an ICBM changing that, it would only add further justification for taking such action against Pakistan. Right now, most of the world is not against us in the way the Trump administration is, what members are asking for would be sure to change that.

North Korea's diplomatic strategy is certainly a bad one for us to follow.

Completely agree. In fact, the world is more friendly towards Pakistan right now, than it was just a few years ago. Any war, or military sanctions wouldn't fly, and would have to be done unilaterally by the US.

 

[Ocean]

Pehlay awam ko pira, likha lo! Khuda ka khoaf karo...

Itna parh likh kay bhi you did not know how to pronounce "parha"

U have a non sensical approach to things, merging two separate issues together to orchestrate confusion points to ulterior motives.

Education budget har saal ministers , pm , pm kay aides , mpas, mnas kha jaatay hain , tau military ka jo chunna munna budget hai eductaion ko allocate kar do takay uska bhi 50-60 pc ministers kha jaain , baqi jo bachay ga education ko chala jaey.

 

[firestorm77]

There should be a contingency plan in place, to deter US from attacking us, but I seriously doubt castrated Pakistani leadership(military + civilian) will do anything about it.

History of sub-continent proves that we embrace invaders.

 

[RescueRanger]

Itna parh likh kay bhi you did not know how to pronounce "parha"

My roman Urdu may be a bit rough around to edges, is that the only critique you could find in my argument? Carry on then!

 

[That Guy]

There should be a contingency plan in place, to deter US from attacking us, but I seriously doubt castrated Pakistani leadership(military + civilian) will do anything about it.

History of sub-continent proves that we embrace invaders.

Pakistan's massive nationalistic population, and large nationalistic, motivated army are enough deterrents. Also, Pakistan has enough range on its nukes to hit US military bases close by, and eliminate any potential carrier battle group, heading towards Pakistan for invasion purposes.

But again, that assumes the US is a military threat, it is not.

Pakistan was, is, and will likely continue to be the only US ally in South Asia.

 

[firestorm77]

Pakistan's massive nationalistic population, and large nationalistic, motivated army are enough deterrents.

Pakistan's nationalistic population? Give me a break! Pakistan has to be the most fractured society to ever exist.

Also, Pakistan has enough range on its nukes to hit US military bases close by, and eliminate any potential carrier battle group, heading towards Pakistan for invasion purposes.

That didn't stop them from doing Abbottabad raid and other shenanigans. Besides, we have very few MRBMs to pose any significant threat to there bases.

Pakistan was, is, and will likely continue to be the only US ally in South Asia.

Perhaps in a parallel universe.

 

[Awan68]

Itna parh likh kay bhi you did not know how to pronounce "parha"


Education budget har saal ministers , pm , pm kay aides , mpas, mnas kha jaatay hain , tau military ka jo chunna munna budget hai eductaion ko allocate kar do takay uska bhi 50-60 pc ministers kha jaain , baqi jo bachay ga education ko chala jaey.

Survival is more essential than education, cutting down military budget endangers our survival hence it needs to be increased rather than cut down. Jab koi a kar syria bana jae ga hamen to ye self declared intellectuals education bhool kar jan bachanay ke jaga dhoond rhe hon gy, bc aik hi to sector hamary badnaseeb mulk ka sahee hi n that is defence sector, yeh chahte hen aus ki bhi band baja do....orange metro ke waqt ain ko education nhn yaad ate, raiwand palace aur bilawal house dekh kar inhen education nhn yaad ate, 100 garion ka protocol dekh kar ain ko education nhn yad ate, aik aik politician ke pass billions ke assets, dubai men towers, london men flats dekh kr ain ko education yaad nhn ate, bas ais mulk ke defence men foji ke hath men pakri gun dekh kar ain ko education yaad a jate hai, ya to yeh log bht ehmak hen ya phir ain ke neyat men fatoor hai aur most probably bewaqoof nhn hen neyat ka hi masla hai, hence i pointed in a precious reply towards ulterior motives.

 

[ziaulislam]

no

Pehlay awam ko pira, likha lo! Khuda ka khoaf karo...

defence eat 17% of budget so yes its significant but will not solve the problem
problem is people of pakistan, they vote for wrong people

look at punjab despite 10 years of PML N uninterrupted power the children going to school is still only 70% whihc is less than people in starving african countries

look at health sector, our leaders even go to england for simple eye exam and dental exam

yet you will see people will vote for PML N and PPPP respectively and simulataneoulsy claim why education is worse

and no its educated middle class who does it not the uneducated people

 

[Ocean]

Survival is more essential than education, cutting down military budget endangers our survival hence it needs to be increased rather than cut down. Jab koi a kar syria bana jae ga hamen to ye self declared intellectuals education bhool kar jan bachanay ke jaga dhoond rhe hon gy, bc aik hi to sector hamary badnaseeb mulk ka sahee hi n that is defence sector, yeh chahte hen aus ki bhi band baja do....orange metro ke waqt ain ko education nhn yaad ate, raiwand palace aur bilawal house dekh kar inhen education nhn yaad ate, 100 garion ka protocol dekh kar ain ko education nhn yad ate, aik aik politician ke pass billions ke assets, dubai men towers, london men flats dekh kr ain ko education yaad nhn ate, bas ais mulk ke defence men foji ke hath men pakri gun dekh kar ain ko education yaad a jate hai, ya to yeh log bht ehmak hen ya phir ain ke neyat men fatoor hai aur most probably bewaqoof nhn hen neyat ka hi masla hai, hence i pointed in a precious reply towards ulterior motives.

Yaar yeh woh log hain jo kulbushan ki maa aur biwi ko "hamara guest" kehtay hain instead of considering them plain visitors. Online beth kay bakwas karna sab say asan kaam hota hai. So kar letay hain. Aisay comments karnay kay paisay denay hon tau kabhi na likhain.
Abhi india koi naya test karay ga tau they will be like we are so far behind them etc etc.

Secondly, in fields of defence , science, r and d progress,advancement and development should never be halted. Specifically in this age when technologies get redundant rather fast.

Just imagine when pakistan had built nukes, if internet fora were a happening thing back then, how many such people would have waved their education pay kharch karo dialogue and rallied against it.

 

[Awan68]

Yaar yeh woh log hain jo kulbushan ki maa aur biwi ko "hamara guest" kehtay hain instead of considering them plain visitors. Online beth kay bakwas karna sab say asan kaam hota hai. So kar letay hain. Aisay comments karnay kay paisay denay hon tau kabhi na likhain.
Abhi india koi naya test karay ga tau they will be like we are so far behind them etc etc.

Secondly, in fields of defence , science, r and d progress,advancement and development should never be halted. Specifically in this age when technologies get redundant rather fast.

Just imagine when pakistan had built nukes, if internet fora were a happening thing back then, how many such people would have waved their education pay kharch karo dialogue and rallied against it.

The good thing is, not much heed is paid to voices such as these here in Pak n our defence sector keeps on progressing n expanding.

 

[Safriz]

That didn't stop them from doing Abbottabad raid and other shenanigans. Besides, we have very few MRBMs to pose any significant threat to there bases.

Shooting from hips?

Osama Drama was an Election boost for Obama and was mutually agreed. Obama's ratings went through the roof after little Pakistani help and he is still tankful for that. Still defends Pakistan even in India.

 

[firestorm77]

no
defence eat 17% of budget so yes its significant but will not solve the problem
problem is people of pakistan, they vote for wrong people

Pakistan is stuck in a cycle of high birth rate, impossible task to educate huge population with little resources, external threats, instability caused by constant shenanigans from internal political engineers, scarcity of water resources coupled with global warming, deforestation at an alarming rate.

It depresses me, when I think that there is no leader in Pakistan who has the vision to resolve these issues.

Shooting from hips?

Osama Drama was an Election boost for Obama and was mutually agreed. Obama's ratings went through the roof after little Pakistani help and he is still tankful for that. Still defends Pakistan even in India.

I don't know what might have happened, but if what you say is true, than that is treason. Pakistan got humiliated in front of the entire world and for what?

 

[batmannow]

the sanctions which never imposed you guys want to be imposed too ?

Even with all the dam , white house officials , president of USA , clearly telling whole world that sanctioned been imposed to pakistan , why you still thinking that sanctions are still not implemented ?
Sanctions or no sanctions , if its in pakistans intersts then pakistan should go ahead , it will kill many birds at same time .
With long range capablities pakistan will get a good audience , sanctions never worked on NORTH KOREA , cuba , china russia , so no need to be afraid about it ?
But best time to do that is to let america or india take more voilent steps on pakistan , so then world take it , as our security intersts.

Pakistan is stuck in a cycle of high birth rate, impossible task to educate huge population with little resources, external threats, instability caused by constant shenanigans from internal political engineers, scarcity of water resources coupled with global warming, deforestation at an alarming rate.

It depresses me, when I think that there is no leader in Pakistan who has the vision to resolve these issues.



I don't know what might have happened, but if what you say is true, than that is treason. Pakistan got humiliated in front of the entire world and for what?

For the money in the accounts of so called soota kiyani & asif ghadari ?lolzz

We have no missiles designed to hit anything beyond the threat we face from India, that's a necessary part of our deterrence and all of our focus is dedicated to that end. We have no ICBM, nor do we need one. Especially not for the US.

Yes we have uneasy relations with the US, but we're not enemies. We've never been at war with them and probably never will be. And even if the situation was worse, what would an ICBM change?

The US' greatest offensive tools for jumped-up pipsqueak nations who've acquired nukes isn't war, it's sanctions, economic damage, diplomatic and political damage at every level. They can do us harm without firing a single bullet, what's more, far from an ICBM changing that, it would only add further justification for taking such action against Pakistan. Right now, most of the world is not against us in the way the Trump administration is, what members are asking for would be sure to change that.

North Korea's diplomatic strategy is certainly a bad one for us to follow.

In existing & open threat enviroment when india is teaming up with america , its every nations right to defend its self from any agreesion it may receives ?
That whole dam 90s theory is obsolete in 2018?
ICBM is the need of hour , because power starts from the barrel of gun , not from the point of weeknes ?
We have to wait just enough if god willing america comes up with any kind of voilent action against pakistan then it will be a perfect time to test a ICBM which will clears every inch of our enemys lands , im india

 

[Safriz]

I don't know what might have happened, but if what you say is true, than that is treason. Pakistan got humiliated in front of the entire world and for what?

The only people who humiliate Pakistan are Pakistanis themselves because we are stupid.
Instead of defending our country on every platform with reasoning and logic, we join harping enemy propaganda.

 

[Vortex]

Everyone play its cards on good time... But revealing any ICBM will be like playing Mastercard.

Is it time to reveal mastercard ?