Is it good time to "Let these Afghans GO" from Balochistan?

[That Guy]

@That Guy the history piece, was aware of. But thanks for pointing out as members here may definitely benefit from what you wrote.

The cost and terrain constraints, I did give the Indian example at that. But the long term intangible costs being borne by Pakistan certainly outweigh the costs of construction and maintenance of the fence.

I was more intrigued as to why PA and GoP have not pushed it? We have a fence in Kashmir, despite the unsettled border issue north of manawar. What stops Pakistan from enforcing it's border which is indeed internationally recognized? (I think you gave this emphasis keeping in mind my linking Kashmir to Baluchistan issue in various debates? LOL. If so, that is a debate!!! I have no second thoughts on your boundaries except in J&K)

To keep Afghanistan from acting belligerent towards Pakistan. Afghanistan is a weak state, the last thing it needs is for the public to call for war against a clearly superior military power, which would crush Afghan forces in a matter of weeks, if not days.

PA and GoP have actually started building a border fence in the last two years. Baluchistan's border with Afghanistan is almost completely covered by a trench and a fence is currently under construction. Pakistan is also building gates on popular border crossings between the two nations, so that the flow of people and traffic can be easily monitored. Pakistan is also investing heavily in drone technology to monitor the Afghan border, as it is a very cheap method compared to foot and jet patrols.

Everything I've said in this post can be shown in practicality during the recent Torkham border skirmish, where both sides almost did go to war.

 

[Super Falcon]

I think it is the best time to send those #Namak-Harams back, especially from Baluchistan. Any Pakistani who still has any sympathy left for them should think twice. I think we had enough of them, if we can't send them back now we never will. With each passing day all Pakistanis are able to see their true colors. I don't know why we fools can't take any strong action. Name a single country which allows other country people cross borders without VISA ?

Yes we are fools it happens no where but look at our foolishness all leaders continued with bullshit policy

Afghanistan should officialy recognize enemy state time to open support for Taliban's if US asks do more show them middle finger and say them clear your own mess one way or other us giving us nothing and still we continue to do more it is against our interest

 

[A-Team]

The situation now is hopeless. Probably the only thing now that can be done is seal the border and throw the keys away. Stay out of Afghanistan. Absolutely. Invest in the FATA and border regions to develop them properly. Let another 50 years pass and then see how things stand. Right now there is too much hate and it is not going to go anywhere. Europeans in similar situations in history would go to war and not stop until so many died that both sides just wanted hug and make up. Af-Pak are not even capable of doing that.

How did Pak get here after investing 30 years and offerring it's land as refuge? Well the easy way out is blame it on the Afghans. However if they were so bad then does Pak not know them? Why did it join in 1979? Nobody forced Pak to join the anti Soviet war. Pak should have just stayed out of it.

However Pak jumped in. Nothing wrong with that. However if you do jump into something you must always make sure your doing the right thing. In addition you must ne prepared to do what is required to prevail. You must be prepared to lose men and treasury. These are nursey games. In short if you can't stand the heat don't go in. Leaving asides whether Pak should have gon in or not this is my rendering of things.

From 1979 to 1989 Pak did reasonable job although possible over extended itself by being partial. I read a book by Sandy Gall from about 1988 and he had stayed with differant Muj factions and even then Shah Masoud and his Panjsheris were complaining that Pak was being biased in supplying more US gifted weapons to other groups. The seeds of hate were already there all the way back in 1988.

After 1990 Pak's weakness was exposed. With US being the real financier once they left Pak struggled to form a effective mandate inside Afghanistan. This period should have taught Pak that it's ability to enforce it's wish was limited without foreign backing. Over time the Taliban took off. To be fair I don't think Pak had much choice but to support Taliban. US also supported Taliban and that included Saudia Arabia.

Dealing with the Taliban should have taught Pak planners of the stupidity and shear retardness of dealing with those who think they run a religious dispensation. Religious zealots are unpredicayble and lack any sense. This was seen by Taliban getting increasingly chummy with OBL. When a superpower makes a enemy you do not want have anything to do with that guy. It's like in Pakistan. If a guy is wanted by the local gangsters you don't hide him in your house where you have family and kids. All you will do is put them at risk when inevitably the gangsters come looking for their guy.

Well madness of the Taliban came home to roost in 2001. Now f somebody came knocking at your door and wanted access through your property to the field behind your house to build some structures. What would you do? You might agree but I doubt you would agree if you knew they might build something there that might have serious adverse effect on your property. You might therefore agree to let them through but on the condition that you also will go with them to make sure that whatever is built is not negative to your interests.

Meaning in this case when US Army went in elements of Pak Army should have also gone in to make sure that whatever new dispensation takes shape is at least not made of anti Pak elements. In short you need to be there shape up the post 2001 Afghanistan. Instead that puffter Musharaf who had already proven his total lack of strategic or guts in the misadventure called the Kargil War decided to give Americans keys to Afghanistan and then sat there like a retard hoping somehow the new order in Kabul would be okay for Pakistan. Guess what it was not. No surprises there I guess. NA just drove in Kabul and the seed of hate that Sandy Gall had detected in 1988 now was firmly planted in Kabul. Ever since it has gone from strength to strength.

For this blunder ( this was 5th greatest blunder by Pakistan) it is possible GHQ actually though those religious nutjobs in Kabul would defeat the Americans or it ws simple lack of balls by Musharaf who did not have the gumption of sying to the Americans that Pak would help but it would go in to make sure Kabul was not taken over ny hostile force.

Now the game is over. I feel the Kabul government is here to stay. Every year that goes by a new Afghanistan is being made. A new secular identity is forming most of it shaped by hatred of Pakistan. This is uniting the differant ethnic groups. also huge forreign aid has built up class of Afghans who have everything to lose and the rest especially young can see. They don't want Taliban back. To finish this off Americans are not going to leave. This more or less secures the Afghan new order.

Now on the Afghan side. They have to understand that Pak/India have a 70 year old rivalry and it's not going to go away. If I were Afghan I would cut the Indians lose and seek 100% peace with Pakistan simply because, well India is not your damned neighbour. Afghanistan keeping close alliance with India is fine. It is a sovereign nation but that will mean there are going to be consequences. You can't keep both Pak and India. Only superpowers are allowed to two time.

Do you think US or Europe would accept Latvia or even Poland dilly dallying with Russians? No, way I am afraid. Your in with the West or your in with the Russkies. Although it is not the same but same applies to Afghan/Pak/India equation.

Since I don't expect Afghans to change and there is no way Pakistan is going to make peace with India the only way left is fence the border and throw the keys away for another half a century.

And I know my mate @A-Team will understand.

Fair points and on the spot. Kudos.

 

[Hellfire]

To keep Afghanistan from acting belligerent towards Pakistan. Afghanistan is a weak state, the last thing it needs is for the public to call for war against a clearly superior military power, which would crush Afghan forces in a matter of weeks, if not days.

PA and GoP have actually started building a border fence in the last two years. Baluchistan's border with Afghanistan is almost completely covered by a trench and a fence is currently under construction. Pakistan is also building gates on popular border crossings between the two nations, so that the flow of people and traffic can be easily monitored. Pakistan is also investing heavily in drone technology to monitor the Afghan border, as it is a very cheap method compared to foot and jet patrols.

Everything I've said in this post can be shown in practicality during the recent Torkham border skirmish, where both sides almost did go to war.

Thanks for the input. So the process is underway. That is good.

 

[That Guy]

Thanks for the input. So the process is underway. That is good.

Yes, but it will take a few years to just place a basic fence. Pakistan isn't looking to implement an advanced system such as what the Saudis have done on their border with Iraq; the first step for Pakistan is to physically set a clearly marked line along the border, which is what the trench and basic fence are for, anything more will be done after, and only if necessary. Again, maintaining even a basic fence, stretching well over a kilometers, will be costly to maintain and not just build.

 

[SrNair]

We are fine wih Rohingya. You Indians can take your Afghan brothers.



We are not the ones making bold claims about being the heroes of Afghanistan. You Indians on the other hand are acting like you are the Mother Theresa of Afghanistan. The onus is now on India to put money where its mouth is. Take your Afghan brothers to your country. Don't make up excuses. The Afghans love you and consider you to be their saviors. Take these savages in.



You are blaming Pakistan? Even the Turks don't take them in. Stop shedding crocodile tears. We will cooperate with China which is our ally. Don't be jealous now.

When will India stop discriminating against its own people such as the Dalit? You higher caste Indians aren't even loyal towards your own kind. Don't lecture Pakistanis about brotherhood when you Indians discriminate against your own brothers and sisters.

My question was that whether the Afghans are racist towards Pakistanis or not .
Why should they show such an attitude towards you?

 

[eddie01]

My question was that whether the Afghans are racist towards Pakistanis or not .
Why should they show such an attitude towards you?

Sir , ye kya puch liya aapne tauba tauba... .

 

[Hellfire]

Again, maintaining even a basic fence, stretching well over a kilometers, will be costly to maintain and not just build.

Totally. Ask us. We maintain a triple layer fence on concrete with intervening concertina wire rolls in between and all the electrification. Although, it is not standardised in higher reaches of Kashmir due to snow/avalanche/landslides. Even then fence exists.

Anyways, no cost too high for security

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Afghans are racist towards Pakistanis

The racist aspect picks on the "indian" influence in Pakistan .... You can only imagine what they think of India proper, although they might not reveal this to Indian's.

 

[SrNair]

The racist aspect picks on the "indian" influence in Pakistan .... You can only imagine what they think of India proper, although they might not reveal this to Indian's.

May be .Again according to the people like you ,we are short dark ,evil Indians .so its natural
but rest of the Pakistanis says they are equal to Afghans but why they still show racism towards you .Why?

 

[TMA]

If Pakistan is genuine on Islamic ummah then it would accept more Afghans and Rohingyas.

The less said about Pakistan's stance on the Uyghurs the better.

If Pakistan is a genuine on Muslim Ummah she would ruthlessly root out the practice of usury, ruthlessly root out corruption internally, ruthlessly stamp out Mir Jafir and Mir Sadiq, ruthlessly expel any foreigners, including Muslims, who tried to destroy Pakistan. If, of course, the foreign Muslims who wish to come to Pakistan, accepted Pakistan and wished to work together and held no hatred then welcome a thousand times.

The less said by ignorant ones the better.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

May be .Again according to the people like you ,we are short dark ,evil Indians .so its natural
but rest of the Pakistanis says they are equal to Afghans but why they still show racism towards you .Why?

There are three sets. Af/Pak/India and you know Af converges with Pak on left and India on the right. That convergence with India on the right differantiates Pak from Afghanistan. You know that so I have no idea why you are pushing this point. And the convergence on the right with "India" is with who? Sikhs, Rajasthan and not Tamil Nadu, Orrisa or whatever. But then again you know that don't you.

And as I remind them if we have some stray "aboriginal genes" they have stray "mongol" genes so we are mullatos.

 

[TMA]

I always say , people who work , pay taxes (have history of tax filing) and have no crime record let them stay

Target the ones "that are bombing places" and their center is in Kabul which has to be controlled

Afghan "Unclaimed Territory" should be claimed by hoisting Pakistani flag over Kabul

• Demolish their broken government
• Turn off the radio
  
• Take over the newspaper
• End the safe heaven in Afghanistan (Terrorist land) and then flush the rats hiding in Pakistan

Once the mouth piece is gone , people will go back to working and jobs


Right now we are letting a snake grow in our backyard all these humvees , and weapons going there in container will make snake stronger , and it does not goes after terrorist camps these weapons are being used to fire into Pakisatan

Why is there a problem in Turkey -> Kurds (Getting weapons - goods , you name it )
Why is there a problem in Pakistan ->Afghanistan( Getting weapons-good , you name it)

What happens in a country when 2 factions are created with weapon , Look at Syria.
Syria is a prime example of what happens when outside nations supply weapons into a Sovereign state

Iraq - Libya - Syria , are all example of state were tones of weapons were dropped into state players (2 -3 factions) , and central governments were dislodged

Speaking of Afghanistan, Infact not long ago a shipment went from our own (Pakistani) Port Trucks, Humvees, Guns and then what they are firing on our border. Into Pakistani border same weapons

There is a stash of weapon left in Afghanistan - who is this for ?

Untill the two nations (Turkey/Pakistan) will not launch major offensive the bombings will continue and disruption will continue

Pushing immigrants or people who want to work or live will not solve the issue



This is afghanistan

Papa snake , and then million of tiny snakes all living happily in Afghanistan crawling out

Kurds are being given weapons to go against Turkey
Afghan Terrorist (Living in Afghanistan) are given weapons to go against Pakistan

See the world does not care they are enjoying Olympics and going to concerts and Movies and all fancy stuff , tomorrow someone will fly a bomber plane over Pakistan or Turkey and drop a weapon on Building and say oh we don't know .... who dropped the bomb we were going against ISIS or what ever

• Bombings happened over syria , no problem , Olympic is not disrupted
  
• There is no candle light
  
• Elled De generes was riding over Usaian bolt (this is what people cared about)
  
• There were lot of sport events happening all 100 not effected by the booming in Syria
• UN was god don't know what they were doing
• People of world were watching Ibrahimovic score goals in Man United debut

And what were people doing in Pakistan

• 4-5 Politicians were debating about corruption charges and demonstration , this was there priority on tv for 2-3 hours
• It was a lame show but they were discussing meaningless political discussion

Only Solution:

• Turkey takes out Kurds - militants - No fly zone established
  
• Pakistan neutralizes Afghanistan takes it over - No fly zone established
  
• Pakisatan- Turkey - Saudia - Egypt launch strike in Syria (Ground Operation - No fly zone)
• 30 Day grace period offered to ISIS to lay down weapons in Iraq, otherwise (Ground Operation - No fly zone)

The Immigrants are never the problem the problem is always "Militancy" and rouge factions who get the weapons from Afganistan-Kurd areas , and some are born out of circumstances like ISIS etc

The only Long term solution is not kicking out Immigrants or women or children but it is taking an offensive approach against Militant groups who receive weapons and later this weapon falls into rouge forces

Never forget - even Prophet Mohammad was a Immigrant to Madina he was originally a resident of Makkah, and was forced to immigrate due to extremism in Makkah during early parts of our history

When the Prophet (PBUH) came to Medina, he did not abuse and show hatred to the natives, did he?

I always say , people who work , pay taxes (have history of tax filing) and have no crime record let them stay

Target the ones "that are bombing places" and their center is in Kabul which has to be controlled

Afghan "Unclaimed Territory" should be claimed by hoisting Pakistani flag over Kabul

• Demolish their broken government
• Turn off the radio
  
• Take over the newspaper
• End the safe heaven in Afghanistan (Terrorist land) and then flush the rats hiding in Pakistan

Once the mouth piece is gone , people will go back to working and jobs


Right now we are letting a snake grow in our backyard all these humvees , and weapons going there in container will make snake stronger , and it does not goes after terrorist camps these weapons are being used to fire into Pakisatan

Why is there a problem in Turkey -> Kurds (Getting weapons - goods , you name it )
Why is there a problem in Pakistan ->Afghanistan( Getting weapons-good , you name it)

What happens in a country when 2 factions are created with weapon , Look at Syria.
Syria is a prime example of what happens when outside nations supply weapons into a Sovereign state

Iraq - Libya - Syria , are all example of state were tones of weapons were dropped into state players (2 -3 factions) , and central governments were dislodged

Speaking of Afghanistan, Infact not long ago a shipment went from our own (Pakistani) Port Trucks, Humvees, Guns and then what they are firing on our border. Into Pakistani border same weapons

There is a stash of weapon left in Afghanistan - who is this for ?

Untill the two nations (Turkey/Pakistan) will not launch major offensive the bombings will continue and disruption will continue

Pushing immigrants or people who want to work or live will not solve the issue



This is afghanistan

Papa snake , and then million of tiny snakes all living happily in Afghanistan crawling out

Kurds are being given weapons to go against Turkey
Afghan Terrorist (Living in Afghanistan) are given weapons to go against Pakistan

See the world does not care they are enjoying Olympics and going to concerts and Movies and all fancy stuff , tomorrow someone will fly a bomber plane over Pakistan or Turkey and drop a weapon on Building and say oh we don't know .... who dropped the bomb we were going against ISIS or what ever

• Bombings happened over syria , no problem , Olympic is not disrupted
  
• There is no candle light
  
• Elled De generes was riding over Usaian bolt (this is what people cared about)
  
• There were lot of sport events happening all 100 not effected by the booming in Syria
• UN was god don't know what they were doing
• People of world were watching Ibrahimovic score goals in Man United debut

And what were people doing in Pakistan

• 4-5 Politicians were debating about corruption charges and demonstration , this was there priority on tv for 2-3 hours
• It was a lame show but they were discussing meaningless political discussion

Only Solution:

• Turkey takes out Kurds - militants - No fly zone established
  
• Pakistan neutralizes Afghanistan takes it over - No fly zone established
  
• Pakisatan- Turkey - Saudia - Egypt launch strike in Syria (Ground Operation - No fly zone)
• 30 Day grace period offered to ISIS to lay down weapons in Iraq, otherwise (Ground Operation - No fly zone)

The Immigrants are never the problem the problem is always "Militancy" and rouge factions who get the weapons from Afganistan-Kurd areas , and some are born out of circumstances like ISIS etc

The only Long term solution is not kicking out Immigrants or women or children but it is taking an offensive approach against Militant groups who receive weapons and later this weapon falls into rouge forces

Never forget - even Prophet Mohammad was a Immigrant to Madina he was originally a resident of Makkah, and was forced to immigrate due to extremism in Makkah during early parts of our history

You are right that NATO have left a lot of weapons and they are aimed at Pakistan. Pakistan should prevent any military hardware going to Afghanistan via her territory.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If Territory is claimed , all stash of weapons will be safeguarded from falling in to rouge people hands

• With a year long project , arms would be collected in return for farming tractor
• Duel projects can launch capturing rouge entities in Pakistan and inside that territory
• Invite to "stable" democracy in Pakistan , for region after 10 years wait political seats for local political parties

Action of rouge terrorist should not implicate civilians who work and raise families (with permit) or who seek refuge, and have history of filing taxes in Pakistan (with permit). Civilian Afghan living with permit in Pakistan , do not feel safe traveling back to Taliban zone

Ask any Pakistan will you travel to Afghan areas or close by they will say no I will not - why because that region is hot bed for "unknown groups"

If that uncaptured territory is left as is , new recruits will launch next wave of attack after 1-2 years as they age to age of insanity

A region that cannot sustain Sovreign control over villages / districts / towns is not a country but a "region/territory" , and it requires intervention. For us it is even more important as the Bombings happen in our cities originating from that "territory/region"

• Children school attack
• University attack
  
• Quetta attack
• Karachi airport attack

Any of these incidents gives us 100% right to go full front action , locally to hunt down infiltrators and also launch a major offensive to take over that rouge territory - we presently refer as Afghanistan

It is not against the civilian

Take over of that land will protect our own cities (inside Pakistan) , and will also help us neutralize the Militants in the "out of control region i.e Afghan territory). In long run it will help migrate 10-15 Million people in Pakistan to their own "Province"

Which can later join Political System in Pakistan (Democracy)

Overall security in world would improve tremendously once we fill the void take over that land
It is easier to counter rouge entities once you are in their turf vs playing the cat and mouse game

• Fight an offensive War against Terror
  
• Fight not in our streets and cities , in the region where Taliban are running around in Afghan territory

A defensive posture like we have now has marginal gains , fine we will catch 100-200 people than what 200-300 more will come from Afghan areas who have ties to Afghan unclaimed territory

If we fight an offensive war the enemy would be on the run in open areas of Afghan regions

 

[SrNair]

There are three sets. Af/Pak/India and you know Af converges with Pak on left and India on the right. That convergence with India on the right differantiates Pak from Afghanistan. You know that so I have no idea why you are pushing this point. And the convergence on the right with "India" is with who? Sikhs, Rajasthan and not Tamil Nadu, Orrisa or whatever. But then again you know that don't you.

And as I remind them if we have some stray "aboriginal genes" they have stray "mongol" genes so we are mullatos.

So they are mainly racist towards Punjabis

Oh well ,Genghiz khan's conquest ,
But Hazaras also showing racism towards Pakistan ,too bad.
According to the Pak members in here ,Pakistanis and Afghanis are same ,that is why I asked this