Is India one people?

[Indos]

You can worship one God, many Gods, see Reality itself as God, be an atheist, be a materialist, be an agnostic, be a skeptic----within HInduism...

So it shows Hinduism doesnt give clear guidance, if the teaching is not clear, it means it has been corrupted. And if it is already corrupted so God must give newer religion that will be quite similar with the original one to guide His creation to the right path

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Listen buddy, Islam isn't just the Quran and in the subcontinent Islam also underwent cosmetic influence by various Sufi saints. I can easily point to schools of thought in subcontinent Islam that are different from the point of ultimate source of Islam. Islam came from a foreign nation, brought by foreigners. Vedic Hinduism and its cultural traits (and arguably even IVC hinduism) also came from foreign people from foreign lands. The folks who wrote rig Veda were fresh off the back of a spoked chariot ready to undo the remnants of IVC philosophy in lieu of a new shiny slave cult.

Ergo, Islam has equal right over the destiny of the subcontinent as the equally foreign faith of Vedic Hinduism.

As I said previously and I will say again, Rig Veda was composed taking its inspiration from the locales of Eastern Punjab,Haryana,Himalayan foothills

I donot want to reference bomb you...But the most important event of the Rig Veda happened when the hero Sudas crossed the rivers from east to West to battle the confederacy of Ten Kings on the banks of Chenab....

we can see that even from the time of the Rig Veda..people to the West were considered as enemies...Our sheet anchor is the composition of the Rig Veda..and we are extremely secure in the knowledge that it waS composed east of Upper Ravi as referenced earlier


if we are talking of genetics, we all come from some ape in Africa...so genetics is a moot point for us..so what are we even discussing?


if you want to have a meaningful debate, debate history and not genetics as it has little to no bearing on the subject....


Fact of the matter remains that the Rig Veda was composed within the borders of present-day India

So it shows Hinduism doesnt give clear guidance, if the teaching is not clear, it means it has been corrupted. And if it is already corrupted so God must give newer religion that will be quite similar with the original one to guide His creation to the right path

we are not here to discuss theology..and eleveate any religion over the other....for me Hinduism is valuable because it refers to my ancestors...even if I donot believe in the truth claims of my ancestors....I just wanna know how my ancestors thought..same goes for Buddhism,Jainism,Ajivika

 

[Indos]

Fact of the matter remains that the Rig Veda was composed within the borders of present-day India

Wise person will seek truth from every corner on the world. The one who only want to follow his ancestor wisdom show some sort of not open minded.

My Islam now for instant is different with Islam that is being taught by my father since I was kid. I am kind of open minded and see truth in Sufism, Wahhabi, and even Shiah. I have Bible and read it and also study Hinduism and Budhism.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Wise person will seek truth from every corner on the world. The one who only want to follow his ancestor wisdom show some sort of not open minded.

My Islam now for instant is different with Islam that is being taught by my father since I was kid. I am kind of open minded and see truth in Sufism, Wahhabi, and even Shiah. I have Bible and read it and also study Hinduism and Budhism.

I never denied that wisdom cannot be found in diverse sources....But here I am locked in a different fight..I have the right to protect and fight for the identity of my ancestors from people who are hellbent on misrepresenting it or trashing it or triviliazing it...

 

[Chhatrapati]

How many God that you worship ?? Just curious

Personally, none. I'm a proponent of Advaita Vedanta. In a simple way, it's best described as in the Link

Nondualism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[KedarT]

Can't help it. Not all regions have interesting history. Compare Estonia vs Germany.

Gee, thanks for taking interest in our history over your own Bangladeshi history. Speaks a lot

Muslims of Pakistan are not one people. Pashtuns did rule your collective asses for centuries. Punjabi Rajputs and other Biradaris were integrated into Mughal elite class so they also ruled your collective asses. Colonialists did not integrate or intermarry with local people. For a blue blooded British, marrying Keralite black Christian like Mughals married Punjabis was unthinkable.

Kings don't just relinquish their power like that. They relinquish their power when they are defeated. The very same Punjabi Rajputs were defeated by the Turks and then had to work under them as nobles. Even Hindus served as nobles under Mughals (not by choice of course) and even led expeditions in Afghanistan. So does that mean Hindus conquered Afghanistan in the medieval period even though they were under the Mughals? Can British Indian soldiers claim that they conquered large parts of the world just because they were under the British Army?
Tell me one Muslim Punjabi/Sindhi/Bangladeshi origin king post the Islamic invasions who ruled by himself over the subcontinent. If there's one, then your point stands.

Khud ki thodi to izzat rakho. We wuzz conquerors lol!

Anyway, thanks for taking interest in our history but I would suggest you focus on your own Bangladeshi history. My last reply to you. Peace out

 

[masterchief_mirza]

en from the time of the Rig Veda..people to the West were considered as enemies...Our sheet anchor is the composition of the Rig Veda..and we are extremely secure in the knowledge that it waS composed east of Upper Ravi as referenced earlier

Now we're getting to the crux of the matter. Just what did the Vedic people think of their own precursors, or at least, the original owners of subcontinental Hindu thought? Wikipedia:

"Later Vedic literature speaks of the western Anava tribes as mlecchas and occupying northern Punjab, Sindh and eastern Rajasthan. The tribes of the north were mlecchas either because they were located on the frontiers such as Gandhara, Kashmira and Kambojas and therefore both their speech and culture had become contaminated and differed from that of Āryāvarta, or else, as in the case of southern India, they were once Aryas but having forsaken the Vedic rituals were regarded to mleccha status."

"The Indians referred to all alien cultures and races that were less civilized in ancient times as 'Mleccha'[3] orbarbarians. Among the tribes termed Mleccha were Sakas, Hunas, Yavanas,Kambojas, Pahlavas, Bahlikas andRishikas.[4] The Amarakosha described the Kiratas, Khasas and Pulindas as the Mleccha-jatis. Indo-Greeks, Scythians,[5]and Kushanas[6] were also mlecchas.[7]"

Several of these tribes were heroically defeated by your boy Sudas btw.

So let's be honest with ourselves for a minute.

Indians have the gall and the wherewithal to condemn Pakistan for adopting some foreign culture, when:

1) Vedic Hinduism was formalised most probably by foreigners.

2) The very scriptures themselves speak of this new faith's defiance against the older and pre-existing canonical Hindu culture.

3) The native ancestry of this land is slandered as "mleccha" for daring to reject the imported teachings of migrants.

4) Even physical violence against these precursors is deemed appropriate to establish the newer faith as the only true variant.

Again, Islam, KARMA.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

@KedarT

Soomra and Samma Muslim Rajputs of Sindh did have independent indiegenous Muslim kingdoms...but they are the only two we know of....ever

Now we're getting to the crux of the matter. Just what did the Vedic people think of their own precursors, or at least, the original owners of subcontinental Hindu thought? Wikipedia:

"Later Vedic literature speaks of the western Anava tribes as mlecchas and occupying northern Punjab, Sindh and eastern Rajasthan. The tribes of the north were mlecchas either because they were located on the frontiers such as Gandhara, Kashmira and Kambojas and therefore both their speech and culture had become contaminated and differed from that of Āryāvarta, or else, as in the case of southern India, they were once Aryas but having forsaken the Vedic rituals were regarded to mleccha status."

"The Indians referred to all alien cultures and races that were less civilized in ancient times as 'Mleccha'[3] orbarbarians. Among the tribes termed Mleccha were Sakas, Hunas, Yavanas,Kambojas, Pahlavas, Bahlikas andRishikas.[4] The Amarakosha described the Kiratas, Khasas and Pulindas as the Mleccha-jatis. Indo-Greeks, Scythians,[5]and Kushanas[6] were also mlecchas.[7]"

Several of these tribes were heroically defeated by your boy Sudas btw.

So let's be honest with ourselves for a minute.

Indians have the gall and the wherewithal to condemn Pakistan for adopting some foreign culture, when:

1) Vedic Hinduism was formalised most probably by foreigners.

2) The very scriptures themselves speak of this new faith's defiance against the older and pre-existing canonical Hindu culture.

3) The native ancestry of this land is slandered as "mleccha" for daring to reject the imported teachings of migrants.

4) Even physical violence against these precursors is deemed appropriate to establish the newer faith as the only true variant.

Again, Islam, KARMA.

You really have the next 100 hours to engage in this debate? It's game on then from my part..just give the greenlight

 

[masterchief_mirza]

@KedarT

Soomra and Samma Muslim Rajputs of Sindh did have independent indiegenous Muslim kingdoms...but they are the only two we know of....ever




You really have the next 100 hours to engage in this debate? It's game on then from my part..just give the greenlight

Nope. Bedtime for me. Thanks for the giggles though.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Nope. Bedtime for me. Thanks for the giggles though.

LOL You lose

 

[KedarT]

CompoSed by slavers from eastern European steppe land. Yep, the koolaid is great around Haryana.
Clue's in the name chaps...Haryana.

Those east European slavers are laughing at how easily gangadesh was duped.

They wrote their slave manual in India, without asking the dravidians if they were happy about the stuff in there, and our resident PhD s think this makes Vedic Hinduism a local business.

Seriously, folks want to sit down and reevaluate a few things here.

You are just going round and round and frankly you tend to repeat a lot. And no, I'm not interested in replying to a person who feels good by calling others 'slaves' and think that he has scored some brownie points. Should I call you 'slave' because you too were under the Maurya empire. And the difference between the Maurya empire and Mughal empire was that the Mauryan king was actually our own king unlike your Turk import who 'happened' to belong to the same religion as you. So we have a greater right in calling you what you are currently call us but we won't. Hum dildaar hai

@KedarT

Soomra and Samma Muslim Rajputs of Sindh did have independent indiegenous Muslim kingdoms...but they are the only two we know of....ever

Yes, I know about them but they were restricted to their own areas. We too had a lot of independent kingdoms. My point is with regards to the illogical claim that @Maira La was having.

 

[Chhatrapati]

1) Vedic Hinduism was formalised most probably by foreigners.

2) The very scriptures themselves speak of this new faith's defiance against the older and pre-existing canonical Hindu culture.

3) The native ancestry of this land is slandered as "mleccha" for daring to reject the imported teachings of migrants.

4) Even physical violence against these precursors is deemed appropriate to establish the newer faith as the only true variant.

Again, Islam, KARMA.

1. New development formalised by foreigners, ay man it was a land of rivers and lakes, beautiful, they thought they need to worship those rivers and lakes and they found some unique ways, thus it is said that Hinduism originated in India.

2. The scriptures themselves ask it's followers to seek more knowledge rather than blindly believing something. So, you can find questions and answers or conversations between two people as part of the same text, or different texts. Which you call defiance.

3. The native ancestry of the land that you currently live in is somewhat described Mlecchas or barbarians, those are people who refused to move into fertile lands and who knows why exactly they were called barbarians.

4. Good, we were never taught to be passivist like Buddha did.

If you say Islam is Karma you're actually insulting your own faith by saying Islam is the result of bad deeds done by your ancestors. Please don't use Sanskrit words without understanding the context. lol!

You really have the next 100 hours to engage in this debate? It's game on then from my part..just give the greenlight

Waste of time, these folks will repeat the same thing over and over, that whatever logic you bring is eventually a waste. The best way is to explain away their own stupidity and finding holes in their argument which is quite easy. Enjoy, don't quote texts.

 

[KedarT]

If you say Islam is Karma you're actually insulting your own faith by saying Islam is the result of bad deeds done by your ancestors. Please don't use Sanskrit words without understanding the context. lol!

Which also means since we didn't convert, our ancestors didn't do anything wrong but his ones did convert which means his ancestors did something wrong lol.
And that too is illogical because why would a person have to bear the pain of his ancestors

 

[Indos]

Personally, none. I'm a proponent of Advaita Vedanta. In a simple way, it's best described as in the Link

Nondualism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look like many people are comfortable living without God. For Muslim the source of our happiness is to live with God. We are some how felling lazy to pray but always felt satisfied if we have already done it.

Actually the verse we are reading during praying are all intended to our selves, believers, and prophet Ibrahim families, including prophet Muhammad. It is more about asking God to give more to us.

The concept of Unity with God that is found in Hinduism is also exist in Islam, particularly in Sufism. But not every body can reach it. What we can be happily achieved when we can be closer to God.

Your concept is also not far from Islam concept that is believed by Sufi as God is every where, while Wahhabism has concept to believe God is in higher place.

In Islam, human soul is made from God spirit and this is why Angels is ordered by God to prostate to Adam, the first human. So getting united with God is possible in spirit world (metaphysical world). But getting united doesnt mean we dont worship God no more as all prophets as the best human still worship God

Quran, Sad, verse 61-62

After I have created him and breathed into him of My spirit,61 fall you down, prostrating yourselves to him.”62

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Which also means since we didn't convert, our ancestors didn't do anything wrong but his ones did convert which means his ancestors did something wrong lol.
And that too is illogical because why would a person have to bear the pain of his ancestors

Lel Kockout Punch...I really wish to see how he is gonna make a comeback from this one