Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

[Sergi]

What i wish!!!i am an indian like u and i don't wish tot??

right!!!

DUDE TOT is just a marketing word.....give me one example of tot being helpful as we have full tot even in su-30 deal??

Do we make pesa radar like su-30 bars?? no

engine-no

avionics-no

So what exactly did we get

ANSWER-SCREWDRIVERS TO SCREW OURSELVES

All I wish from you right now is to read correctly
That wasnt reply for your post. Just see what you quote its was for that Chinese dude.

And I can answer to all of your questions but its getting really dull to start from A-Z for every new guy. Please dig up the sticky threads and you will get answers to most of things.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

This is not 2012 dude............we have delayed and we are gonna delay again,look at the fiscal position??

Where will the money to run nation come from.........defence budget cut(useless congress will look to it)

care to read this without abusing me??
India

Ok i will tell you one simple statement.

Su35= heavy
Rafale= medium

Su35=Air superiority
Rafale=Strike fighter

India needs medium and strike fighter

therefore india needs rafale

 

[sardar1987]

All I wish from you right now is to read correctly
That wasnt reply for your post. Just see what you quote its was for that Chinese dude.

And I can answer to all of your questions but its getting really dull to start from A-Z for every new guy. Please dig up the sticky threads and you will get answers to most of things.

1)Ok just tell me then how do u know what full tot means??

2)do u think they will teach us how to make new t/r modules??

3)how to make engine parts??

4)give us spectra for tejas


answer-NO

 

[anant_s]

@ abingdonboy @ sancho @ sergi

some expert opinion would help here.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

This is not 2012 dude............we have delayed and we are gonna delay again,look at the fiscal position??

Where will the money to run nation come from.........defence budget cut(useless congress will look to it)

care to read this without abusing me??
India



Yes u are right here.....su-35 production won't start till 2018 or so,,,,for india(conceded)

But you have no answer to me when i have provided links that su-35 is way superior to su-30 and rafale is damn expensive at the moment,2 years ago economy was fine


now------NO

beta, see we need a strike fighter, this requirement won't change even if the economy is up or down. because mig 27 are being retired either way. So we need rafale, its as simple as that. it doesn't matter if your economy can't support it. mod and iaf neglected R&D for decades, so now they have to pay the price, the indian consumer will have to bear the grunt. There is simply no other option.

 

[Sergi]

Ok first of all we are talking of new stuff like su-35

1)its rcs is 2-3 m2 after deep modernization

2)its utilises new product 117s engines and not the older 1980's al-31f

Sukhoi Tribute: Sukhoi Su-35BM/T-10BM

Sukhoi Company (JSC) - Airplanes - Military Aircraft - Su-35

KNAAZ*- Production - Su-35
http://www.knaapo.ru/media/eng/about/production/military/su-35/su-35_buklet_eng.pdf

Does it any how changes the facts that I write ???
Dig more on RCS and how it is calculated. And dont go to any makers sites. And give me figures for combat loaded planes RCS if you can ever find them

@ abingdonboy @ sancho @ sergi

some expert opinion would help here.

And since when I become expert

 

[kaykay]

Rafale is definitely a very good choice for India. Right now we need a true multi role aircraft and Rafale will fulfil that requirement like no one. Only Mirage-2ks are all we have as true multirole fighters.

 

[Sergi]

1)Ok just tell me then how do u know what full tot means??

2)do u think they will teach us how to make new t/r modules??

3)how to make engine parts??

4)give us spectra for tejas


answer-NO

And why ask questions you want to answer yourself

How about Single Crystal high pressure turbine blade ???
Thats why I write please read more then come to argue. Then we can discuss it to death.

And your idea of TOT is conflucting with IP rights. Get it right.

 

[sardar1987]

Ok i will tell you one simple statement.

Su35= heavy
Rafale= medium

Su35=Air superiority
Rafale=Strike fighter

India needs medium and strike fighter

therefore india needs rafale

this argument is fine but

1)my doubt is india buying rafale even without basic tot after economic problems

our foolish govt has no regard for defence

2)whats the point of getting something after say 6-8 years of competition??

World moves fast and can rafale hold itself against j-20 say in 2025?

So pls listen to what i suggest

1)Buy su 35 with pakfa n050 aesa with 1500 t/r modules
2)modernize it with israeli ew suite
3)ols etc from spinoff from pakfa program as we are investing 50 percent of money
4)speed up ******* lca
5)privatize hal,ada and possibly drdo

problem with su-35

1)slow rate of production
2)doubtful air to ground role

 

[anant_s]

And since when I become expert

atleast you are amongst a few sane voices here . Na?

 

[sardar1987]

And why ask questions you want to answer yourself

How about Single Crystal high pressure turbine blade ???
Thats why I write please read more then come to argue. Then we can discuss it to death.

And your idea of TOT is conflucting with IP rights. Get it right.

What are u saying???

I get ur point..........ip rights vs tot

but whats the use of tot if we don't know how it was built??
answer-as su-30 program taught us,tot is just hogwash........we actually get no technology,just knowledge how to assemble an aircraft

thats the argument??

about single crystal high turbine blade,all i know is that for kaveri we were unable to mass produce it.

reasons??

1)kaveri program started in 1996 and in 15 years or so of funding govt provided only 640 million dollars

Do u expect us to make an engine without pvt participation with that paltry money....no dude,its impossible
And without an engine we really have nothing

 

[Sergi]

i can never understand the logick behind going for MMRCA when we can simply go for large numbers of Su series + LCA

SU 35 is very potent it carries more has a bigger radar and we can go for israeli inputs to make it even more leathel and with ASEA we if go for some american planes might be able to put US AA & HARM wepons on the SU 35 and who knows that israelies have something like SPECTRA or even better

now about the maintainence well still we will save as we are already operating almost 200 MKIs so we dont need new infra i think rafale is of no real use as by the time we will have rafale FGFA will start trickling in so whats the use of rafale when we will get more bang for the same money tell me is a 4.5 or say 4.5+ gen plane better than %th gen plane with mulitple band ASEA radars and stealth ...simple question is rafale a better choice for us in the long run answer is no we will be better off with latest SU 35/F 16 combo with ASEA & latest US & russian wepons than costli rafale

Simple logic by a infantry solider carry " a assault rifle + side arm and knife " by your logic he should carry only assault rifle and more bullets .

We have MKIs we don't need Su-35. Simple as that.

In rafael deal we get more than plane. And main interest is tech , diversification of supply chain and making our industry better.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

this argument is fine but

1)my doubt is india buying rafale even without basic tot after economic problems

our foolish govt has no regard for defence

2)whats the point of getting something after say 6-8 years of competition??

World moves fast and can rafale hold itself against j-20 say in 2025?

So pls listen to what i suggest

1)Buy su 35 with pakfa n050 aesa with 1500 t/r modules
2)modernize it with israeli ew suite
3)ols etc from spinoff from pakfa program as we are investing 50 percent of money
4)speed up ******* lca
5)privatize hal,ada and possibly drdo

problem with su-35

1)slow rate of production
2)doubtful air to ground role

ohkk i will explain you with patience

1. What good with Su35 will do for us? We already will have 272 mki, those are more than enough for A2A role.
2. You can modernise it to whatever level you want. but you won't be getting it before 2020 and if you are getting PAK FA by 2022, whats the point?
3. just writing speed up LCA won't speed it up, it will take its own time. Antony has already said to stick to deadlines so that IOC-2 can be given before elections. Even the current FOC deadline looks unrealistic to me. I will bet my money saying that FOC will see further delays.
4. do you know that privatisation of HAL was proposed about 2 years ago? It received nod from CCEA about an year ago. Still no action.

 

[sardar1987]

Does it any how changes the facts that I write ???
Dig more on RCS and how it is calculated. And dont go to any makers sites. And give me figures for combat loaded planes RCS if you can ever find them



And since when I become expert

RCS FIGURES ARE NEVER DISCLOSED..............SO EVERYTHING IS A SPECULATION

and if you are so sceptical on russia's ability to even put a decent ram coating,,then whats the point of pakfa program
lets scrap that and invest on lca or more rafale

 

[Sergi]

What are u saying???

I get ur point..........ip rights vs tot

but whats the use of tot if we don't know how it was built??
answer-as su-30 program taught us,tot is just hogwash........we actually get no technology,just knowledge how to assemble an aircraft

thats the argument??

about single crystal high turbine blade,all i know is that for kaveri we were unable to mass produce it.

reasons??

1)kaveri program started in 1996 and in 15 years or so of funding govt provided only 640 million dollars

Do u expect us to make an engine without pvt participation with that paltry money....no dude,its impossible
And without an engine we really have nothing

FIRST THING CLAM DOWN AND READ SLOWLY.

the single crystal turbine blade is from rafael and its tech after transfer can be used for our engine development. May be into kaveri too.

TOT gives you technology on how to do stuff. As of know we didn't make use of it. It was the problem from our PSUs and not with the TOT concept. We have Bofors tech for decades. Bofors didn't stop us from doing work on it. We didn't do.

And stop claiming the things that you just think. Prove it or don't post it.

RCS FIGURES ARE NEVER DISCLOSED..............SO EVERYTHING IS A SPECULATION

and if you are so sceptical on russia's ability to even put a decent ram coating,,then whats the point of pakfa program
lets scrap that and invest on lca or more rafale

Do you even read my post ???

Do you know were PAK-FA aka FGFA will house its weapons ???

Really I am bored of your nonsense. If you cant even read try not to quote me