Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

[Sergi]

your right bro even we are stuck with the flying coffins and not going for LCA and keep shifting the goal post for it , look at the M2k deal for that much we could have bought 3 full squads of SU 35 and the wepons package man for that ammount

Do you know the latest price of MKI ???

You seems more active than French persuading India buying Rafale. Since you are not India's citizen, your suggestion will only be an option.

He is a 200% indian.

All Indian suggestions on this matter are only opinions and doesn't matter. Only that matter what IAF and MOD think.

And he is not persuading but just stating the facts which most of here are ignoring.

 

[A G 1046]

Do you know the latest price of MKI ???

100 million but totally worth it but rafale is a ripoff toooooo costli and im asking for SU 35 which with ASEA will eat rafale alive

 

[帅的一匹]

your right bro even we are stuck with the flying coffins and not going for LCA and keep shifting the goal post for it , look at the M2k deal for that much we could have bought 3 full squads of SU 35 and the wepons package man for that ammount

LCA project is a beneficial learning process for India. SU35 is a master piece, way much better than Rafale.

 

[Sergi]

100 million but totally worth it but rafale is a ripoff toooooo costli and im asking for SU 35 which with ASEA will eat rafale alive

Thats your assumption.

Adding new type is always headache for Airforce. So if we have to have go for Russian plane then it should be MKIs and not Su-35. And the proposed upgrade for MKIs will bring them on par with Su-35.

One more thing only radars don't take down the plane. Its whole package.
And whats there to prove your claim besides your claim

Simulation study of F-22 vs known odds has different opinion than that of you.

 

[A G 1046]

Thats your assumption.

Adding new type is always headache for Airforce. So if we have to have go for Russian plane then it should be MKIs and not Su-35. And the proposed upgrade for MKIs will bring them on par with Su-35.

One more thing only radars don't take down the plane. Its whole package.
And whats there to prove your claim besides your claim

Simulation study of F-22 vs known odds has different opinion than that of you.

well bro still SU35 is much much better than anything rafale offers be it range , wepons load and SU35s RCS is quite low too rafale dosent offers anthing good than SPECTRA + we have over 10 years expereance with SU series and can handle it withowt increasing much on maintainence and handling wich saves at least more than 5 billion in long run

 

[Sergi]

well bro still SU35 is much much better than anything rafale offers be it range , wepons load and SU35s RCS is quite low too rafale dosent offers anthing good than SPECTRA + we have over 10 years expereance with SU series and can handle it withowt increasing much on maintainence and handling wich saves at least more than 5 billion in long run

- Basic thing you forget, Russian planes are lower in cost per piece but their operating and life cycle cost is huge.

- RCS reduction produce nothing much for 4/4.5 gen planes. If your platform uses weapons on external hard points your platform no matter how much composites it use , glow like christmas tree on radar. So considering the two planes the smaller one will be less visible on radar than the bigger one with more load.

- and the object of MMRCA is different. If IAF wanted bigger plan they would simply have bought more licences for MKIs. But they want a medium category plane

 

[帅的一匹]

well bro still SU35 is much much better than anything rafale offers be it range , wepons load and SU35s RCS is quite low too rafale dosent offers anthing good than SPECTRA + we have over 10 years expereance with SU series and can handle it withowt increasing much on maintainence and handling wich saves at least more than 5 billion in long run

Indian airforce prefer new toy, they love the feeling of spending lavishly. Every new toy they get will reinforce the feeling of security, and then many years later they will find the money was squandered.
Maybe they think China is too familiar with SU30 serie, IAF should find another way out to win over. TOT for core technology of Rafale is not gonna happen unless France is taking steps to develop stealthy fighter, until then you will have been bled white already.

 

[Sergi]

TOT for core technology of Rafale is not gonna happen unless France is taking steps to develop stealthy fighter, until then you will have been bled white already.

Hahaaaha its more of what you wish than the facts

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

I don't even understand how this stupid thread can continue for so long. Rafale is strike fighter, and it is the best strike fighter in the world at the moment. So people should stop comparing it with mig35 as that is a different class of aircraft.

People talking about indigenous tech should get one thing in their mind. IAF is woefully short of fighters, there was no other alternative to the mmrca project. IAF is not a fool. You are fools.

About sukhoi 35, are you people simply illiterates? Can't you understand that the first m in mmrca stands for medium? IAF never required Su35, if we wanted it we would have it.

 

[A G 1046]

- Basic thing you forget, Russian planes are lower in cost per piece but their operating and life cycle cost is huge.

- RCS reduction produce nothing much for 4/4.5 gen planes. If your platform uses weapons on external hard points your platform no matter how much composites it use , glow like christmas tree on radar. So considering the two planes the smaller one will be less visible on radar than the bigger one with more load.

- and the object of MMRCA is different. If IAF wanted bigger plan they would simply have bought more licences for MKIs. But they want a medium category plane

i can never understand the logick behind going for MMRCA when we can simply go for large numbers of Su series + LCA

SU 35 is very potent it carries more has a bigger radar and we can go for israeli inputs to make it even more leathel and with ASEA we if go for some american planes might be able to put US AA & HARM wepons on the SU 35 and who knows that israelies have something like SPECTRA or even better

now about the maintainence well still we will save as we are already operating almost 200 MKIs so we dont need new infra i think rafale is of no real use as by the time we will have rafale FGFA will start trickling in so whats the use of rafale when we will get more bang for the same money tell me is a 4.5 or say 4.5+ gen plane better than %th gen plane with mulitple band ASEA radars and stealth ...simple question is rafale a better choice for us in the long run answer is no we will be better off with latest SU 35/F 16 combo with ASEA & latest US & russian wepons than costli rafale

 

[anant_s]

well bro still SU35 is much much better than anything rafale offers be it range , wepons load and SU35s RCS is quite low too rafale dosent offers anthing good than SPECTRA + we have over 10 years expereance with SU series and can handle it withowt increasing much on maintainence and handling wich saves at least more than 5 billion in long run

Please don't look into the whole issue on capital cost of acquiring only. It requires lot more money to keep fighetrs like Su 30 in air along with their upkeep. when MMRCA started, the philosphy was to replace Mig 21s but over a period of time but requiremenst and options available changed. One prime reason why Rafale has won is perhaps IAFs delight with Mirage and its great track record and by the looks of IAF doctrine, LCA Mk 2 and Rafale will become its workhorses in next decade. Both Rafale and Sukhoi are classy planes in their league, but for the MMRCA requirements, Rafale is perhaps the best option available to us. & yes we always have an option to licence manufacture more MKI along with their upgradation.

 

[sardar1987]

Then tell me why India gonna buy an inferior fighters like Rafale with higher price? corruption?

Rafale is not an inferior choice troll.....yes price is high

Please don't look into the whole issue on capital cost of acquiring only. It requires lot more money to keep fighetrs like Su 30 in air along with their upkeep. when MMRCA started, the philosphy was to replace Mig 21s but over a period of time but requiremenst and options available changed. One prime reason why Rafale has won is perhaps IAFs delight with Mirage and its great track record and by the looks of IAF doctrine, LCA Mk 2 and Rafale will become its workhorses in next decade. Both Rafale and Sukhoi are classy planes in their league, but for the MMRCA requirements, Rafale is perhaps the best option available to us. & yes we always have an option to licence manufacture more MKI along with their upgradation.

The problem with su-30 is mainly the older al-31f engine.It breaks down easily and requires maintainance frequently but the new product 117s is way better than that and in the future its gonna be fitted with product 117

Yes i have my doubts on multirole aspects of su-35 and its a heavy fighter,not medium one

 

[anant_s]

The problem with su-30 is mainly the older al-31f engine.It breaks down easily and requires maintainance frequently but the new product 117s is way better than that and in the future its gonna be fitted with product 117

Not sure on that, haven't heard any such thing ever in media, perhaps may be an issue.

Yes i have my doubts on multirole aspects of su-35 and its a heavy fighter,not medium one

Yup thats the moot point of whole issue and secondly you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

 

[sardar1987]

I don't even understand how this stupid thread can continue for so long. Rafale is strike fighter, and it is the best strike fighter in the world at the moment. So people should stop comparing it with mig35 as that is a different class of aircraft.

People talking about indigenous tech should get one thing in their mind. IAF is woefully short of fighters, there was no other alternative to the mmrca project. IAF is not a fool. You are fools.

About sukhoi 35, are you people simply illiterates? Can't you understand that the first m in mmrca stands for medium? IAF never required Su35, if we wanted it we would have it.

Oh yeah best!!!

What about f-18,f-15 se?? what about f-35??

IAF is foolish ,thats what it is.....examples

1)no induction of lca(constant change of requirements)

2)upgradation of mirage 2000(damn costly)

And man we are debating a scenario where we have su-35 with pakfa aesa somewhere in 2015 whereas we are gonna get rafale only in 2018(if at all)

1)its aesa is damn too small

2)spectra is good but no one actually knows how good

Save the money from buying su-35 over rafale and pump that into lca program

 

[A G 1046]

Please don't look into the whole issue on capital cost of acquiring only. It requires lot more money to keep fighetrs like Su 30 in air along with their upkeep. when MMRCA started, the philosphy was to replace Mig 21s but over a period of time but requiremenst and options available changed. One prime reason why Rafale has won is perhaps IAFs delight with Mirage and its great track record and by the looks of IAF doctrine, LCA Mk 2 and Rafale will become its workhorses in next decade. Both Rafale and Sukhoi are classy planes in their league, but for the MMRCA requirements, Rafale is perhaps the best option available to us. & yes we always have an option to licence manufacture more MKI along with their upgradation.

well but what is the use of rafale when we can have the same bang for the money or even more with F16-SU 35 combo they both are chaeper to maintain and have very potent wepon suite aswell which will onli get more lethal after we have americans with us and we can put US wepons on owr LCA & MKI/SU 35 tell me wont we save huge ammounts on maintanence if we go for SU 35 + we are already in deal with russians for 250 FGFA

why on earth should we go for the rafale then cause french will never give the TOT to us and will always put spanners in the wheel deal is not even signed and they are already making a scene owt of HAL issue when it was basic requirement of the deal i say we should never go for rafale look at scorpene deal see how they f***** us up in name of TOT (why should & why willa counrty ever give its secrets for just a deal they will never & niether will they help us with LCA look at Kaveri -SCEMA deal)

hope u get my point SIR

Oh yeah best!!!

What about f-18,f-15 se?? what about f-35??

IAF is foolish ,thats what it is.....examples

1)no induction of lca(constant change of requirements)

2)upgradation of mirage 2000(damn costly)

And man we are debating a scenario where we have su-35 with pakfa aesa somewhere in 2015 whereas we are gonna get rafale only in 2018(if at all)

1)its aesa is damn too small

2)spectra is good but no one actually knows how good

Save the money from buying su-35 over rafale and pump that into lca program

count have said it better