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Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

As related to software front

Have u read about isro bhuvan??

now read
"Bhuvan-3D is based on TerraExplorer software, a product of Skyline Software Systems, thru the local Indian distributor RSI SOFTECH INDIA PVT LTD.[8] Bhuvan-2D is developed using open-source software Geospatial solutions (UMN Mapserver, Geoserver, 52 North, OpenLayers).[9] 2D images are available on all mobile browsers, including Apple's iOS."

They didn't even develop the software themselves!!!

http://www.skylinesoft.com/SkylineGlobe/corporate/home/index.aspx?
 
India's forte is in its services like software and medicine
We have nothing in terms of manufacturing,and ur laughing isn't gonna change that
Come to me when india designs atleast nano's engine

As far as other things are there regarding su-35.............i told u we should integrate n050 aesa in it and israeli ew suite.

Where am i dreaming in this?
We will save 40 million per plane and the money may be spent on engine tech etc

Its all strategy dude,u have to cut corners somewhere and right now we are not spending in research which is bad

I mean are u happy with only wankel engine.good for u.

And can u list indigenous components for ins vikrant?

Ok. Let me try and really dumb it down for you.

Step 1 : There is a requirement laid down
Step 2 : There is a check done. Can we make this. If yes, proceed. If no, how can we ensure that we fill the gap and in the future make it ourselves.
Step 3: Based on Step 2 fulfill requirement. NOT ok we dont have this, we will go in for second best and spend the next 30 years re-inventing the wheel, instead of going in for ToT.

The AESA radar will not be fully ready till the PakFa rolls out. The Rafale AESA is already entering squadron service.

Hope this clarifies the process for you. Now, for the examples provided. There are facilities available. Can our facilities fulfill all requirements? Or shall we use external facilities. Your example of the Vikrant. Where do you think they got designed? Do you understand that for every element/component there is R&D involved? Now, you have copy pasted. DO you see BEL? That's an Indian company making stuff after ToT. Now, they are experimenting with next gen. Do you see development happening with the Israelis and Russians? It happens by sending people there and they come back trained. And they are now making the next generation technology by indigenousing the equipments.

If you want to manufcture everything you need a navy the size of the USN. You know why? What happens after a particular requirement is fulfilled? You shut it down? Its called economics of scale.

Your complete premise that R&D will lead to total indigenousing is not correct. It will lead to building expertise in areas which may cause a problem if denied. That is where R&D is important. Strategy of cutting corners is not what we are doing currently. We are simply going for the best available along with building the R&D base. We are getting the best of both worlds. Your complete reasoning of saying R&D happens by pumping in money in defence is already happening. And happening at real fast pace over the past 5 years. How? Take a look at the systems being churned out by the Indian companies past 5 yrs and what they were doing before that.

Now, getting back to the thread question. About Rafale. Its an operational plane with AESA being operationalisedin the squadrons. No plane except the Typhoon besides the Rafale were able to clear the technical requirements. Now, where does the question of the Sukhoi or Mig arise? It simply failed the first level of requirements? Read the sections.

AND befor u become too happy on even steel read this

"And so the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) took up a project in 1999 to develop and mass-produce warship grade steel. Russia provided the chemical formula of warship steel called ABA, but the challenge in steelmaking is to translate science into manufacture."

Dude DRDO is not the end all in everything. There are areas where they have excelled and areas where they have fallen. We seem to beat them all the time. All the missiles post the Prithvi series are their babies. They things they have deployed on Siachen are their babies. The armour you see on tanks is their baby. So, what is wrong if we bought it off the shelf from the Russians?
 
As related to software front

Have u read about isro bhuvan??

now read
"Bhuvan-3D is based on TerraExplorer software, a product of Skyline Software Systems, thru the local Indian distributor RSI SOFTECH INDIA PVT LTD.[8] Bhuvan-2D is developed using open-source software Geospatial solutions (UMN Mapserver, Geoserver, 52 North, OpenLayers).[9] 2D images are available on all mobile browsers, including Apple's iOS."

They didn't even develop the software themselves!!!

Skyline Software Systems: SkylineGlobe 3D earth software solutions

Dude, You want to take up R&D start a different thread. This is about Rafale. And you still have not proven how you came to the conclusion that the Su-35 / Mig which did not even clear the technical requirements should be inducted instead of the Rafale.
 
Ok. Let me try and really dumb it down for you.

Step 1 : There is a requirement laid down
Step 2 : There is a check done. Can we make this. If yes, proceed. If no, how can we ensure that we fill the gap and in the future make it ourselves.
Step 3: Based on Step 2 fulfill requirement. NOT ok we dont have this, we will go in for second best and spend the next 30 years re-inventing the wheel, instead of going in for ToT.

The AESA radar will not be fully ready till the PakFa rolls out. The Rafale AESA is already entering squadron service.

Hope this clarifies the process for you. Now, for the examples provided. There are facilities available. Can our facilities fulfill all requirements? Or shall we use external facilities. Your example of the Vikrant. Where do you think they got designed? Do you understand that for every element/component there is R&D involved? Now, you have copy pasted. DO you see BEL? That's an Indian company making stuff after ToT. Now, they are experimenting with next gen. Do you see development happening with the Israelis and Russians? It happens by sending people there and they come back trained. And they are now making the next generation technology by indigenousing the equipments.

If you want to manufcture everything you need a navy the size of the USN. You know why? What happens after a particular requirement is fulfilled? You shut it down? Its called economics of scale.

Your complete premise that R&D will lead to total indigenousing is not correct. It will lead to building expertise in areas which may cause a problem if denied. That is where R&D is important. Strategy of cutting corners is not what we are doing currently. We are simply going for the best available along with building the R&D base. We are getting the best of both worlds. Your complete reasoning of saying R&D happens by pumping in money in defence is already happening. And happening at real fast pace over the past 5 years. How? Take a look at the systems being churned out by the Indian companies past 5 yrs and what they were doing before that.

Now, getting back to the thread question. About Rafale. Its an operational plane with AESA being operationalisedin the squadrons. No plane except the Typhoon besides the Rafale were able to clear the technical requirements. Now, where does the question of the Sukhoi or Mig arise? It simply failed the first level of requirements? Read the sections.

1)BEL APARNA is not indigenous but made on tot

2)we made no other system

3)n050 aesa is operational as of now and pakfa delivery starts 2016

4)rafale delivery can never start before 2017

5)yes u are right su-35 is heavy class fighter and was not considered and rafale has better a to g role

6)until drdo and hal are privatized we will get nothing and keep on loosing time

7)We will get no valuable tot from rafale deal,we may integrate rbe2 aesa on tejas but they won't give us method to make t/r modules.........so whats the use??
When something is right i do concede but can u honestly believe that spending 6000 odd crores per year on whole line of defence products is gonna bring anything good??

Mate i would have to disagree here and history favours that i am right.
 
1)BEL APARNA is not indigenous but made on tot

2)we made no other system

3)n050 aesa is operational as of now and pakfa delivery starts 2016

4)rafale delivery can never start before 2017

5)yes u are right su-35 is heavy class fighter and was not considered and rafale has better a to g role

When something is right i do concede but can u honestly believe that spending 6000 odd crores per year on whole line of defence products is gonna bring anything good??

Mate i would have to disagree here and history favours that i am right.

If the plane is not operational, where is the radar operational?

ToT, yes. But that technology is now internalised. SO which is better, re-invent the wheel or this? The Vikrant is the first carrier being built. There are going to be 3 carriers. You think anybody is going to setup industries for everything? Hell, the Russians are going in for the Mistral! Why? Because, they cannot build? Or because they want better and internalise?

good night for now.
 
Dude, You want to take up R&D start a different thread. This is about Rafale. And you still have not proven how you came to the conclusion that the Su-35 / Mig which did not even clear the technical requirements should be inducted instead of the Rafale.

Money dude.......my plan is very solid
ek teer se kai shikaar honge

And su-35 is pretty good fighter and aesa integration makes it better
 
If the plane is not operational, where is the radar operational?

ToT, yes. But that technology is now internalised. SO which is better, re-invent the wheel or this? The Vikrant is the first carrier being built. There are going to be 3 carriers. You think anybody is going to setup industries for everything? Hell, the Russians are going in for the Mistral! Why? Because, they cannot build? Or because they want better and internalise?

good night for now.

Russians has publicly stated that its on mass production
Take-off Magazine : As many as four PAK FA planes in flight trials
http://www.janes.com/article/21636/ila-2012-sukhoi-t-50-aesa-flight-tests-on-schedule
http://www.janes.com/article/19942/fourth-sukhoi-t-50-prototype-makes-debut-flight
operational fully in 2015

i say good enough as we will not get rafale before 2018
 
Ok. Let me try and really dumb it down for you.

Step 1 : There is a requirement laid down
Step 2 : There is a check done. Can we make this. If yes, proceed. If no, how can we ensure that we fill the gap and in the future make it ourselves.
Step 3: Based on Step 2 fulfill requirement. NOT ok we dont have this, we will go in for second best and spend the next 30 years re-inventing the wheel, instead of going in for ToT.

The AESA radar will not be fully ready till the PakFa rolls out. The Rafale AESA is already entering squadron service.

Hope this clarifies the process for you. Now, for the examples provided. There are facilities available. Can our facilities fulfill all requirements? Or shall we use external facilities. Your example of the Vikrant. Where do you think they got designed? Do you understand that for every element/component there is R&D involved? Now, you have copy pasted. DO you see BEL? That's an Indian company making stuff after ToT. Now, they are experimenting with next gen. Do you see development happening with the Israelis and Russians? It happens by sending people there and they come back trained. And they are now making the next generation technology by indigenousing the equipments.

If you want to manufcture everything you need a navy the size of the USN. You know why? What happens after a particular requirement is fulfilled? You shut it down? Its called economics of scale.

Your complete premise that R&D will lead to total indigenousing is not correct. It will lead to building expertise in areas which may cause a problem if denied. That is where R&D is important. Strategy of cutting corners is not what we are doing currently. We are simply going for the best available along with building the R&D base. We are getting the best of both worlds. Your complete reasoning of saying R&D happens by pumping in money in defence is already happening. And happening at real fast pace over the past 5 years. How? Take a look at the systems being churned out by the Indian companies past 5 yrs and what they were doing before that.

Now, getting back to the thread question. About Rafale. Its an operational plane with AESA being operationalisedin the squadrons. No plane except the Typhoon besides the Rafale were able to clear the technical requirements. Now, where does the question of the Sukhoi or Mig arise? It simply failed the first level of requirements? Read the sections.



Dude DRDO is not the end all in everything. There are areas where they have excelled and areas where they have fallen. We seem to beat them all the time. All the missiles post the Prithvi series are their babies. They things they have deployed on Siachen are their babies. The armour you see on tanks is their baby. So, what is wrong if we bought it off the shelf from the Russians?


The thing wrong is that due to clumsiness in setting of inhouse industry we are wasting the talent of all the engineers and importing from israel with a population of 7 million.Heck we produce 20-30 times more engineers than them,maybe even more.
 
India will get nothing in Rafale deal, mark my word. you will stand in the same position as today even 10 years later. TOT is not gonna happen.
 
With the rupee going down everyday, how are they going to deal with the massive cash flow outside of India of 20 Billion dollars when the contract is signed?
 
With the rupee going down everyday, how are they going to deal with the massive cash flow outside of India of 20 Billion dollars when the contract is signed?

Inflation will keep coming, MMRCA programme will be delayed.
 
Last thing you came up with specifications from wiki :laughcry:
In specification LCH is better than apache but in reality no match.

I am not trolling you are the one who is changing from lca to mig35 them to su35 then what not.

"su35 was mentioned by someone else and lch better than apache really
and u are the one who said mig 35 does not have aesa first go and learn

I don't know why rafale is so superior to anything else......its aesa is tiny with only 1000 t/r modules and is not even mature as production started last year.......Its not apg-77 dude! wake up

AND sooner rather than later su-35 will be equipped with no50 aesa,,,,,rafale is fucked then
Regarding spectra do u seriously believe it to be so special that no one else can develop it,,,,common dude



man u deal with me,,,,leave him aside.............answer my points


When i said raffale is superior
i say currently also raffale is fucked up against su 35

Yes tiny but more powerful than current AESAs of Russia. We are not going to induct Rafale today. So till the induction starts it will be a mature platform.

You will put your bet in which one: already proven one or one which is still in development whose fate is unknown. How can you say after integration of those equipments they will not ask for extra money?


Till the time of induction su35 will have a powerful aesa and then raffale is fucked upo badly
 
Rafale has best electronic warfare suite other than F22. Agree or not?

Rafale will get the best BVR weapon in the form of meteor missile.

Dude i don't get what u talk and what are u talking ithink u are mentally sick plzz u are taking it against chiana and pakistan and j29 has better ew suite so plzz
stop trollling
don't think that we are newbies and we don't know a thing
wo this newby does not justifies us nto be new
 
Yo... I have been part of tech transfer teams with Russia for Mig 27M and Su 30MKI early launch containment phase 1 , so keep your attitude in check, I have a pretty good Idea of what Rafale brings to table and your posts are pretty evident you have no clue of what you are saying. As far as brains are concerned I am content with what I have, and am well aware of economic situation in India.

If you want to go back to your contention on dassault providing us "zilch" back up your narrative or refrain from making dumb statements on a public forum.

If we assume that this request from India is a way to secure the ToT, the question is which competitors can produce a very high level of ToT (unless Indian changed their mind about it) and able to assume the risk of responsability OR to have the political weight to show them the finger of the middle.
Who can do that ? I would like to say: Russia but not for the good reason.
 
India will get nothing in Rafale deal, mark my word. you will stand in the same position as today even 10 years later. TOT is not gonna happen.

The same think i am telling them give hal drdo investment and chance
initial faliures are always there
but look at china 2-3 decades no one took there equip and laughed at them
and see now j 20
no one is glod dpoon fed that we will make a f22 on first r&D project
these dumb indian members don't get it
 
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