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Iron Dome defense system gets new backer: Barack Obama

"Considering the Middle East is such a vital region for US foreign policy, having a loyal state like Israel in the pocket is crucial. Soviet Union saw Israel as a potential ally against the West which is why it recognized the country in 1948."

Precisely, which is why it will ensure that nothing what so ever happens to Israel! Aid US gives to Israel is very intelligently shrouded in ambiguity

"US loans to Israel are also a source of much confusion. Israel owes the U.S. government almost $3 billion in economic and military loans. It is often stated by Israeli officials that Israel has never defaulted on a loan from the United States. This is true, but only because loans are waived before default can occur" See they will give **** loads of "loans" but they wont want the money back. In essence that is aid, not loan. Now im sorry i cant have a detailed debate. I am having exams, but what i had to say i have said and you have heard it. Good day
 
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"Considering the Middle East is such a vital region for US foreign policy, having a loyal state like Israel in the pocket is crucial. Soviet Union saw Israel as a potential ally against the West which is why it recognized the country in 1948."


Washington's Battle Over Israel's Birth
Truman letter

By Richard Holbrooke
Wednesday, May 7, 2008

Richard Holbrooke - Washington's Battle Over Israel's Birth - washingtonpost.com

In the celebrations next week surrounding Israel's 60th anniversary, it should not be forgotten that there was an epic struggle in Washington over how to respond to Israel's declaration of independence on May 14, 1948. It led to the most serious disagreement President Harry Truman ever had with his revered secretary of state, George C. Marshall -- and with most of the foreign policy establishment. Twenty years ago, when I was helping Clark Clifford write his memoirs, I reviewed the historical record and interviewed all the living participants in that drama. The battle lines drawn then resonate still.

The British planned to leave Palestine at midnight on May 14. At that moment, the Jewish Agency, led by David Ben-Gurion, would proclaim the new (and still unnamed) Jewish state. The neighboring Arab states warned that fighting, which had already begun, would erupt into full-scale war at that moment.

The Jewish Agency proposed partitioning Palestine into two parts -- one Jewish, one Arab. But the State and Defense departments backed the British plan to turn Palestine over to the United Nations. In March, Truman privately promised Chaim Weizmann, the future president of Israel, that he would support partition -- only to learn the next day that the American ambassador to the United Nations had voted for U.N. trusteeship. Enraged, Truman wrote a private note on his calendar: "The State Dept. pulled the rug from under me today. The first I know about it is what I read in the newspapers! Isn't that hell? I'm now in the position of a liar and double-crosser. I've never felt so low in my life. . . ."

Truman blamed "third and fourth level" State Department officials -- especially the director of U.N. affairs, Dean Rusk, and the agency's counselor, Charles Bohlen. But opposition really came from an even more formidable group: the "wise men" who were simultaneously creating the great Truman foreign policy of the late 1940s -- among them Marshall, James V. Forrestal, George F. Kennan, Robert Lovett, John J. McCloy, Paul Nitze and Dean Acheson. To overrule State would mean Truman taking on Marshall, whom he regarded as "the greatest living American," a daunting task for a very unpopular president.
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Beneath the surface lay unspoken but real anti-Semitism on the part of some (but not all) policymakers. The position of those opposing recognition was simple -- oil, numbers and history. "There are thirty million Arabs on one side and about 600,000 Jews on the other," Defense Secretary Forrestal told Clifford. "Why don't you face up to the realities?"

On May 12, Truman held a meeting in the Oval Office to decide the issue. Marshall and his universally respected deputy, Robert Lovett, made the case for delaying recognition -- and "delay" really meant "deny." Truman asked his young aide, Clark Clifford, to present the case for immediate recognition. When Clifford finished, Marshall, uncharacteristically, exploded. "I don't even know why Clifford is here. He is a domestic adviser, and this is a foreign policy matter. The only reason Clifford is here is that he is pressing a political consideration."

Marshall then uttered what Clifford would later call "the most remarkable threat I ever heard anyone make directly to a President." In an unusual top-secret memorandum Marshall wrote for the historical files after the meeting, the great general recorded his own words: "I said bluntly that if the President were to follow Mr. Clifford's advice and if in the elections I were to vote, I would vote against the President."

After this stunning moment, the meeting adjourned in disarray. In the next two days, Clifford looked for ways to get Marshall to accept recognition. Lovett, although still opposed to recognition, finally talked a reluctant Marshall into remaining silent if Truman acted. With only a few hours left until midnight in Tel Aviv, Clifford told the Jewish Agency to request immediate recognition of the new state, which still lacked a name. Truman announced recognition at 6:11 p.m. on May 14 -- 11 minutes after Ben-Gurion's declaration of independence in Tel Aviv. So rapidly was this done that in the official announcement, the typed words "Jewish State" are crossed out, replaced in Clifford's handwriting with "State of Israel." Thus the United States became the first nation to recognize Israel, as Truman and Clifford wanted. The secret of the Oval Office confrontation held for years, and a crisis in both domestic politics and foreign policy was narrowly averted.

Clifford insisted to me and others in countless discussions over the next 40 years that politics was not at the root of his position -- moral conviction was. Noting sharp divisions within the American Jewish community -- the substantial anti-Zionist faction among leading Jews included the publishers of both The Post and the New York Times -- Clifford had told Truman in his famous 1947 blueprint for Truman's presidential campaign that "a continued commitment to liberal political and economic policies" was the key to Jewish support.

But to this day, many think that Marshall and Lovett were right on the merits and that domestic politics was the real reason for Truman's decision. Israel, they argue, has been nothing but trouble for the United States.

I think this misses the point. Israel was going to come into existence whether or not Washington recognized it. But without American support from the very beginning, Israel's survival would have been at even greater risk. Even if European Jewry had not just emerged from the horrors of World War II, it would have been an unthinkable act of abandonment by the United States. Truman's decision, although opposed by almost the entire foreign policy establishment, was the right one -- and despite complicated consequences that continue to this day, it is a decision all Americans should recognize and admire.

 
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Israel is more of a liability for USA.If you think Americans can't build this kind of technology at home then you're sadly mistaken.The American's can build far more advanced tech if it invests at home.Israelis are getting too arrogant.I've noticed on several sites they even insult America..their main backer and re: Pakistan help to US
Read what we've done for US
Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Could America itself repay Soviet Union for Vietnam.Pakistan rightfully supported different groups and the result being
Soviet:

14,453 Killed (total)

* 9,057 killed in combat
* 5,396 non-combat related

35,478 Wounded

311 Missing
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America finally got the revenge for Vietnam.We could've allied with the Soviet Union and hammered afghans from the other side but we stayed loyal with US and their economy was in tatters largely due to anti soviet drive.We even faced nuclear threat from Soviet Union just for the sake of America and yes we're thankful for US help but it was mutual not one sided as you claim golaniB.
 
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With Iran going Nuclear the balance of Power is surely going to shift against Israel,
The Jews are being deceived big time As the US has history of going with The Rich and The Powerful..Sadly Israel will be outnumbered 100 to 1 in this fastly becoming Bipolar World.
 
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With Iran going Nuclear the balance of Power is surely going to shift against Israel,
The Jews are being deceived big time As the US has history of going with The Rich and The Powerful..Sadly Israel will be outnumbered 100 to 1 in this fastly becoming Bipolar World.

It doesn't bode well for the Palestinians does it? In order for Iran or others to destroy Israel with nukes. It would in the process destroy the Palestinians. All the while being on the receiving end of a crippling nuclear counter strike. reminds me of the computer in the movie war games. "strange game the only winning move is not to play"
 
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It doesn't bode well for the Palestinians does it? In order for Iran or others to destroy Israel with nukes. It would in the process destroy the Palestinians. All the while being on the receiving end of a crippling nuclear counter strike.

Nukes will not be used, It will keep the deterrence due to which Israel will not be able to use its nukes but thats highly unlikly as Israelis will sure love to level everything down along with themselves. But still there will be some-one left to takeover these lands.:agree:

Or if Iran or Arabs does used nukes , it will surely end the Palestinian misery,which is highly unlikely as the final crusade will purely be fought to free the Holy Lands..It would be big.
Personally do you think People who blow off themselves in the public places would be scared from a nuclear attack ??. Theres plenty left in Nations like Iraq,Afghanistan,Somalia,Palestine,Kashmir,Muslim CARs for this kind of Ideology to grow.It can only slowdown to reach to driving seate but cannot be stoped as they will be the scum of the injustice done to Muslim Counteries by the permanent members of UNSC to meet there narrow interests. The 9/11 has initiated the chain reaction it will surely have an impact.This event is indeed of huge importance in the History of Mankind.:agree:
 
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Personally do you think People who blow off themselves in the public places would be scared from a nuclear attack ??.


No I don't! and I think that some of Iran's leaders would gladly sacrifice themselves to accomplish the feat. That is why it is so dangerous for Iran to have nukes. Fanatical fundamentalist religious leaders in control of a country with nukes is never a good mix.

And it wouldn't just be Israel that would be under threat of Iranian nukes. Other ME countries would as well. we need to get back on topic though. Which is the Iron Dome system.
 
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Thomas what i think is that the Iranian regime has already possessed nukes,What they are doing now is to make a facility to manufacture nukes. The possibility of Israeli attack in order to prevent Iran from having a facillity like that would be devastating due to the possible Iranian backfire in the form of Nukes landing all over Israel and ME countries leveling there OIL drilling setup ..
The success rate of covert ops in Iran is also not good ,
So is there any other way the west could devise to stop Iran from having Nukes, I guess not.
The scenario is like which button should the west push so that the door opens and the Bomb also dosent sets off.
we'l get back to the topic.
 
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That is very nice but you are forgetting about the Russians, they have interests in the region.

You cannot expand your terroritory or do what you want even if you write off USA.

Israel is not a self sufficient nation. If you write off USA, rest of NATO will turn against you, it would be suicide for the nation of Israel.

israel was independent of the USA for 20 years.

us-israel ties are so intricate it would be impossible unravel them. both country's militaries are so connected it would compromise america's performance in iraq/afghanistan if it were to cut israel off.

israel would simply move over to india, china, etc...for an alliance.

That actually isn't all the story. Israel receives not just Loan Guarantees. But direct military aid as well. Congress also directly funds research on major Israeli Military programs. That is what made it such a slap in the face when Israel shipped a Lavi fighter prototype to China.

there is no substantial evidence that israel shipped lavi technology to china. china claims its J10 was developed before the lavi even began research.

second, even if it did - so what? USA ships israel technology to israel on a regular basis.

reagan sold AWACS to saudi arabia:

US/Saudi AWACS Sale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

not to mention the USA has routinely violated the memorundom agreements which stipulate both nations share intelligence and resources. usa has withheld intelligence vital to israel's security, specifically on saddam in the 1980s and hamas in jordan.

both, even assuming the most extreme - israel is still the a far more loyal and historic ally than all others. britain/europe diss USA on a regular basis and embrace our enemies. allies like saudi arabia, pakistan, iraq, etc..constantly spit in your face.

100,000 plus rockets?! I find it hard to believe that you can even believe what you're spewing. That number is nothing but a figment of your paranoid hasbara delusions. Oh, and what does Israel do? How about the 2006 war with Lebanon and Operation Cast Lead? Thousands of innocent civilians killed versus your handful.. You're not the calm and peace loving nation you claim, so don't bother with the propaganda. Cocky? Maybe not..but a blight on the region nonetheless.

minimum say 40,000, most israeli security agree it's at least 100,000 with a latest battery of scuds.

as far as the 2006 lebanon war and operation cast lead goes, if find that to be extremely hypocritical coming from an american:

Second Battle of Fallujah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Imposing Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Phantom Thunder was nearly identical to the 2006 lebanon war (it was exactly was year after it began)

Operation Phantom Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US killed 2,000+ against 120 casualties, very similar to israel's ratio.

pound for pound the IDF is the most experienced and battle-tested urban combat military.

you have to be a total moron to believe israel is deliberately going after civilians.

we could kill millions in a matter of seconds without batting an eye.
 
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