IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Hack-Hook]

Like many others, I'm still thinking why IRAN hasn't placed an order of 150+ SU-30 MKK along with J-10Cs yet?

They need a lot of Aircraft for their Air Force.

Maybe because we have no use for them .
We need airplanes that we can use after a first strike and those are not such airplanes.
It seems we have opted for asymmetrical warfare and our air force need to adopt such policy. We need a modern airplane that can be maintained by a small team of technicians and can operate even from remote roads. The airplane needs to have a capable datalink so several of them be able to share data and tasks with each other and compensate our lack of airborne Radar.

And honestly none of those airplanes can do that.

And also it most come with TOT or at least the ability to maintain them ourselves.

 

[sha ah]

If Iran wants to invest in the airforce then it would mainly be for potentially engaging with regional rivals in a local conflict. Against a superpower like the US I'm afraid its just thought of as a waste of money without much potential for a capacity to retaliate.

However if Iran does decide to buy modern some flankers then they should surely build some mountain strongholds and runways that lead to some safe underground bunkers. Yeah it just feels as if with the current direction of UAVs and reusable, expandable missile systems that Iran just sees more bank for the buck with the asymmetrical missile/drone option.

The thing with UAVs is that they're much cheaper and more expendable that fighter jets that cost tens of millions a piece with each pilot taking years to train. Nations simply aren't willing to risk their fighter jet and pilot unless they pretty much have air superiority regardless. I mean losing a piece of equipment that costs 50-100 million a piece is extremely painful. Of course for air superiority however there is no contest. Drones just aren't there yet, but even then air defenses can play a huge role in denying air access to the enemy, which is what Iran's air defense network is geared for.

Maybe because we have no use for them .
We need airplanes that we can use after a first strike and those are not such airplanes.
It seems we have opted for asymmetrical warfare and our air force need to adopt such policy. We need a modern airplane that can be maintained by a small team of technicians and can operate even from remote roads. The airplane needs to have a capable datalink so several of them be able to share data and tasks with each other and compensate our lack of airborne Radar.

And honestly none of those airplanes can do that.

And also it most come with TOT or at least the ability to maintain them ourselves.

 

[sha ah]

Yeah if Iran does decide to purchase flanker variants from Russia, it has to be with all the software codes and full technology transfers. Otherwise what is the point when pro NATO nations have new F-16s and Rafales ? I don't think Iran will even be interested unless it can, at the very least license produce Iranian variants on production lines inside the country.

Maybe because we have no use for them .
We need airplanes that we can use after a first strike and those are not such airplanes.
It seems we have opted for asymmetrical warfare and our air force need to adopt such policy. We need a modern airplane that can be maintained by a small team of technicians and can operate even from remote roads. The airplane needs to have a capable datalink so several of them be able to share data and tasks with each other and compensate our lack of airborne Radar.

And honestly none of those airplanes can do that.

And also it most come with TOT or at least the ability to maintain them ourselves.

 

[sha ah]

The flanker is outdated but modern variants can still be a very useful weapon against regional revivals for Iran. This channel coincidentally just made a video on just such a topic.

 

[sanel1412]

Yeah if Iran does decide to purchase flanker variants from Russia, it has to be with all the software codes and full technology transfers. Otherwise what is the point when pro NATO nations have new F-16s and Rafales ? I don't think Iran will even be interested unless it can, at the very least license produce Iranian variants on production lines inside the country.

They have F-16 with AIM9 and AIM7...no AMRAAM...,same with Rafael...Israel must keep edge..remeber,that f-16 is not better than Iran F-4 with Aim7,PL-12 and r-73

 

[sha ah]

Iran's F-14s with Fakour (Phoenix) missile is still a serious problem even with 4 of those, they're very deadly. 6 fully loaded is just ridiculous though, it's insane.

They have F-16 with AIM9 and AIM7...no AMRAAM...,same with Rafael...Israel must keep edge..remeber,that f-16 is not better than Iran F-4 with Aim7,PL-12 and r-73

 

[jauk]

Iran's F-14s with Fakour (Phoenix) missile is still a serious problem even with 4 of those, they're very deadly. 6 fully loaded is just ridiculous though, it's insane.

Just to repeat my refrain, building a capable air force in this technological epoch is wasteful. AI and unmanned vehicles are the game. And (unmanned) drones are the stepping stone to that time. Not retrograde thinking implemented as shiny objects like F35s. The US will suffer from the innovators syndrome in the technological adaptation lifecycle. Laggards such as Iran are presented with the opportunity to leapfrog. I.e. AI systems.

 

[Flotilla]

I think it is a problem of funds.

Iran has not much funds for embarking in a new IRIAF combat aircraft. If they have funds, they will invest it in the most formidable weapons they are credited, BM. And after it, they invest in robust SAM to make not perfect but much better A2/AD zones in all MENA region.

That is the key why the Islamic Republic won the respect even from Israel (two months before even the Israeli PM suggestted that they would accept a "good" JCPOA deal). This completely turn of rethorics it is because of the continuous effort of Iran to make a formidable A2/AD zone based on BM and SAM, 100% indigenous. Only Russia (not even Israel) can say something like this. Israel bought at some point Patriot for his SAM integrated system, but also receive a LOT of money for free each year to water happily their SAMs and formidable armed forces. We can say same about Algeria, where near all 100% of their equipment has been imported from abroad.

Only 2 batteries of SAM-300PMU2 has been imported from Russia and if not reverse engineered, for sure those system has been studied to apply similar or improved solutions to the existings Bavar373 SAM and any other further improvements of medium and long range SAM systems.

After new JCPOA (I am sure it will arrive) Iran will have access to foreign currency and will have enough freedom to deal with China and Russia and even some europeans countries to import and have access to some of the new 4.5 generation aircrafts.

But they won the respect with BM and SAM systems and I think it is priority number 1.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Well honestly flankers is not suitable for Iran.
If we want to buy airplanes . I rather it be something like Grippen e/f . I also believe Sweden approach to air force is a lot more resilient to first strike than buying flanker and try to build it bases under the mountain for them.
Those Grippen are easy to maintain and can take of from normal roads and they can share data with each other even more than F35 and Sweden sell them with codes and sources . And more importantly in red flag training the only aircraft that did better than them was f22. Also they are one of the cheapest airplane to operate.
Sadly I doubt right now Sweden sell us those planes .

 

[TheImmortal]

Just to repeat my refrain, building a capable air force in this technological epoch is wasteful. AI and unmanned vehicles are the game. And (unmanned) drones are the stepping stone to that time. Not retrograde thinking implemented as shiny objects like F35s. The US will suffer from the innovators syndrome in the technological adaptation lifecycle. Laggards such as Iran are presented with the opportunity to leapfrog. I.e. AI systems.

The technology needed to build a true 6th or 7th Gen AI based fighter are the same technologies that build up on 5th Gen fighters

*high end jet engine
*cutting edge sub systems/avionics
*Powerful airborne radar

So people who think Iran can “magically” jump to 7th Gen AI based fighters aren’t living in reality. The pilot and his required sub systems aren’t what’s holding Iran back. It’s lack of investment in titanium alloys, engines, and the production chain to build a cutting edge fighter jet wether human operated or AI operated is irrelevant.

 

[sha ah]

The west will NEVER, EVER well Iran any military hardware as long as the Islamic Republic remains in place. For Iran it's either Flankers from Russia or J-10 from China. That's Iran's choice at the moment.

Recently Iran build some more F-5s to sustain the airforce, and considering the sanctions and obstacles, Iran has done a remarkable job over the years keeping its large, diverse fleet airworthy with domestic upgrades and repairs.

However, most of Iran's airplanes, their airframes are simply too old for sustained bombing runs or missions and realistically Iran needs something in the next 10-20 years. Analysts believe that in case of even a regional conflict, that Iran's airforce could not remain really airworthy for more than 6 months or so.

I would like to see Iran get a license production deal to produce flankers inside the country with indigenous hardware and upgrades. That and some fortified mountain runways, deep underground bunkers underneath mountain ranges, would be a good addition to Iran's military options.

Well honestly flankers is not suitable for Iran.
If we want to buy airplanes . I rather it be something like Grippen e/f . I also believe Sweden approach to air force is a lot more resilient to first strike than buying flanker and try to build it bases under the mountain for them.
Those Grippen are easy to maintain and can take of from normal roads and they can share data with each other even more than F35 and Sweden sell them with codes and sources . And more importantly in red flag training the only aircraft that did better than them was f22. Also they are one of the cheapest airplane to operate.
Sadly I doubt right now Sweden sell us those planes .

 

[TheImmortal]

The west will NEVER, EVER well Iran any military hardware as long as the Islamic Republic remains in place. For Iran it's either Flankers from Russia or J-10 from China. That's Iran's choice at the moment.

Recently Iran build some more F-5s to sustain the airforce, and considering the sanctions and obstacles, Iran has done a remarkable job over the years keeping its large, diverse fleet airworthy with domestic upgrades and repairs.

However, most of Iran's airplanes, their airframes are simply too old for sustained bombing runs or missions and realistically Iran needs something in the next 10-20 years. Analysts believe that in case of even a regional conflict, that Iran's airforce could not remain really airworthy for more than 6 months or so.

I would like to see Iran get a license production deal to produce flankers inside the country with indigenous hardware and upgrades. That and some fortified mountain runways, deep underground bunkers underneath mountain ranges, would be a good addition to Iran's military options.

Even Flankers will be hard to build in Iran without titanium ovens and massive amounts of titanium alloys.

Unless Iran just wants to assemble “kits” delivered from Russia. Which isn’t true ToT.

Iran needs to spend time mining titanium and building the necessary factories to build airframes that use significant amounts of titanium. That is why Iran experiments F-5, the airframe is small and has little to no titanium. It’s within Iran’s capability at present time and keeps the the workers busy.

 

[sha ah]

Well in my opinion, to start Iran should simply buy a few dozen ready made Flankers. Iran just has to make sure to get the software codes and all the blueprints. After that they can purchase some knock-down kits from Russia and put those together.

Then Iran can do some co-production. Using the technology transfers, begin building some of the components and serially produce some fighters which still incorporate Russian vital components and parts.

Eventually, as you stated, Iran can move onto creating a fully indigenous assembly line.

I've read that Iran has one Titanium mine in Kerman province and even exports Titanium so if the political will is there, then it really shouldn't be an issue.

Iran claims titanium mine progress

Iran has brought a major titanium mine online in the NorthWest of the country and now plans to develop processing capacity there, according to provincial officials.

www.miningmagazine.com

Iran claims titanium mine progress​

Iran has brought a major titanium mine online in the NorthWest of the country and now plans to develop processing capacity there, according to provincial officials.

Parisa Abedpour, deputy head of the Ministry of Industry, Mine and Trade in West Azerbaijan province, told the state-run IRNA agency that the Qara-Aghaj mine near provincial capital Urmia is now fully operational ahead of the planned construction of a processing plant.

Qara-Aghaj is estimated to have 208 million tonnes of titanium-bearing ore, with an average grade of 8.5%, according to historic exploration data gathered by the Iranian Society of Mining and Engineering.

Iran exported only 150t of titanium last year, generating revenues of just US$390,000, according to the ministry.

The country only has one titanium slag plant in operation in Kahnuj in southeastern Kerman province, which has a production capacity of 130,000t/yr of titanium dioxide concentrate and 70,000t/yr of titanium slag.

The US in April renewed its determination from November 2019 that any sales to Iran of titanium, among other metals including chromium, nickel and 60% tungsten, were sanctionable as they are useful to Iran's nuclear, missile, and military programmes.

Even Flankers will be hard to build in Iran without titanium ovens and massive amounts of titanium alloys.

Unless Iran just wants to assemble “kits” delivered from Russia. Which isn’t true ToT.

Iran needs to spend time mining titanium and building the necessary factories to build airframes that use significant amounts of titanium. That is why Iran experiments F-5, the airframe is small and has little to no titanium. It’s within Iran’s capability at present time and keeps the the workers busy.

 

[TheImmortal]

Well in my opinion, to start Iran should simply buy a few dozen ready made Flankers. Iran just has to make sure to get the software codes and all the blueprints. After that they can purchase some knock-down kits from Russia and put those together.

Then Iran can do some co-production. Using the technology transfers, begin building some of the components and serially produce some fighters which still incorporate Russian vital components and parts.

Eventually, as you stated, Iran can move onto creating a fully indigenous assembly line.

I've read that Iran has one Titanium mine in Kerman province and even exports Titanium so if the political will is there, then it really shouldn't be an issue.

Iran claims titanium mine progress

Iran has brought a major titanium mine online in the NorthWest of the country and now plans to develop processing capacity there, according to provincial officials.

www.miningmagazine.com

Iran claims titanium mine progress​

Iran has brought a major titanium mine online in the NorthWest of the country and now plans to develop processing capacity there, according to provincial officials.

Parisa Abedpour, deputy head of the Ministry of Industry, Mine and Trade in West Azerbaijan province, told the state-run IRNA agency that the Qara-Aghaj mine near provincial capital Urmia is now fully operational ahead of the planned construction of a processing plant.

Qara-Aghaj is estimated to have 208 million tonnes of titanium-bearing ore, with an average grade of 8.5%, according to historic exploration data gathered by the Iranian Society of Mining and Engineering.

Iran exported only 150t of titanium last year, generating revenues of just US$390,000, according to the ministry.

The country only has one titanium slag plant in operation in Kahnuj in southeastern Kerman province, which has a production capacity of 130,000t/yr of titanium dioxide concentrate and 70,000t/yr of titanium slag.

The US in April renewed its determination from November 2019 that any sales to Iran of titanium, among other metals including chromium, nickel and 60% tungsten, were sanctionable as they are useful to Iran's nuclear, missile, and military programmes.

Is Iran producing the pure titanium used in engines and air frame? Just mining titanium ore is not enough. does it have the refining and production facilities to produce extremely high quality alloys?

That is just one part of a massive supply chain of infrastructure investment needed by Iran. You are taking north of 10B+ USD in investments alone.

I do not see Iran undertaking such a risky adventure until it is swimming in excess cash like in 2008-2011

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

Even Flankers will be hard to build in Iran without titanium ovens and massive amounts of titanium alloys.

Unless Iran just wants to assemble “kits” delivered from Russia. Which isn’t true ToT.

Iran needs to spend time mining titanium and building the necessary factories to build airframes that use significant amounts of titanium. That is why Iran experiments F-5, the airframe is small and has little to no titanium. It’s within Iran’s capability at present time and keeps the the workers busy.

Well, if the Kowsar can carry beyond visual range air to air missiles, shouldn't it at least challenge F-18s or F-16s? I don't know if it can field those missiles, but if it does, shouldn't it be capable of challenging those 4th-generation US-made fighter jets?