What's new

IRIAF | News and Discussions

AF of just about every country on the planet starts with a requirements analysis. They ask themselves what do they need, air superiority, airborne air defense, interdiction, multi-role, etc. So it always starts from what an AF requires. Then they look at what options they have, what are their budget constraints, who will sell them which platform, how fast the induction/adoption of the new air crafts, etc. etc.

My current recommendations for Iran, for instance, is based on Iran's circumstances. There are many different things to consider. As you can tell when any members here debate their ideas and their suggestions or recommendations, is (in each case) based on their analysis of Iran's requirements. We are all making suppositions and assumptions, of course.

My own recommendations are based on the fact that Iran needs an indigenous AF air craft as it is falling behind in realistic combat training, keeping up with the latest technologies, planning and testing platforms and tactics against a more superior AF, etc. etc. So hence I suggest that Iran needs to look at all of these, and based on GOOD JUDGMENT, get going as fast as possible and get AF up and running again.

There are also many issues outside of AF to consider for a nation's defense, not just fighter jets, or AF itself.

Whether an air craft is single engine or twin engine depends again on many, many things. First and foremost, since for years I was in charge of OEM maintenance logistics (hence my bias) with air crews from both U.S. and U.K., I look at maintenance and reliability issues. So, if a jet engine is exceptionally reliable, well tested and proven platform, and has very competent and experience maintenance crew, then I would contemplate single engine air craft (outside of other criteria such as range and weapons load).

In almost all cases, a single engine aircraft is set on a logistics BEA, which means that AFs, in the West in particular, use the engine up to 80% of its estimated TBO, and the single engine gets regular checks and regular inspections. Obviously CMA (critical mission application) single engines also have an extra predicated usage scenario such as whether it is used over land, or as a navy application, cost issues, performance requirements, etc. For instance, A4 Skyhawk is a single engine small jet with about 7 ton payload (fuel and weapons), and was used by both Navy and air forces. It was regarded as such a reliable application that it was easily integrated into U.S. Navy.

I have come across maintenance crews who worked on A4 and they say they have never worked on a masterpiece like A4 ever before or after they worked with that aircraft. A4 is an exceptional aircraft in so many way. I don't want to bore you with all the details about its design. But it was an amazing air craft.

Now about single engine F-14 ???

I don't know what overall strategy of Iran's AF is, so it is hard to say one way or the other. Can you build an F-14 with a single engine? I would say, depends.

Here's what most people often miss about air crafts? .... aerodynamic lift to drag ratio.

If F-14 removed its air intake nacelles and incorporated a redesign to accommodate inlet separation/distortion resulted from crosswind and high angle-of-attack operating conditions, by putting an engine on top (or even underneath still with much smaller air intake for turbojet engines instead of turbofan), it would hugely reduce drag and if the resulting performance is acceptable by the AF for the application they are considering, then it would be perfectly fine and doable.

Let me explain this in a bit more simplistic way.

People always consider that turbofan engines are more fuel efficient (usually about 10-15% or so depending on engines and a few other things), but people hardly ever seem to consider that smaller air intake nacelles reduce drag which can result in fuel savings.

If you have a bigger turbojet engine (usually above 20,000 of thrust) you can begin to consider and analyze your design based on AF requirements and the higher the engine thrust, the more likely you can have fuel savings from small air intake openings of a turbojet .

The Su-24 is more efficient in drag than FB-111 although they are roughly somewhat the same size. The former has low drag due to its air intake, compared to the latter's turbofan engines, not considering low flight performance/requirements compared to high altitude flight performance/requirements,

Imagine an F-14, the air intake and bottom engine housing removed, and you had a single R-35 engine on top of the air frame with adequate engine intake variable controller, altitude adjustable air intake, with FBW controls? Taken into consideration weighting coefficient to optimize total pressure loss coefficient and static pressure recovery coefficient, with the external nacelle flow redesign.

That aircraft would be one hell of an aircraft, in terms of flight performance compared to current F-14A that Iran has.

There is very little information available online about F-14A. Most of what you find is about F-14D, which was much heavier and different engines, substantially different.

The Iranian F-14A has engines that are 2 tons each, delivering 20,900/10,850 (afterburner/military) thrust. With 2 engines it delivers: 41,800/21,700 and it weights 37,000ish lbs.

F-14A redesigned as I explained above with a single R-35 would weight 30,000ish lbs, (roughly) with a 29,000/19,000ish engine, with substantially improved aerodynamic lift to drag ratio.

It can also fly at higher altitude.

Look at the numbers above carefully. With a single engine R-35, it can have almost the same non-afterburner thrust for a lighter air craft, and substantially better lift to drag ratio, lower cost of a single engine, better range, and can carry more fuel as a result of lowered weight.

So, the above are just some SAMPLE SCENARIOS AND CONFIGURATIONS that may or may not benefit the AF requirements, depending on what it is. Some AF strategists may decide to go for a single engine air craft with a second engine, so they can rotate the engines and achieve much higher sortie rates, as engines can get rotated out in about 30 minutes allowing the air craft to fly multiple sorties per day.

So the AF has to consider whether single engine or twin is ideal for their requirements, what max take off weight do they need, what weapons load the need, what range do they need, etc. and then decide on the design and configuration.

Swept back wings require more maintenance, but CAN offer (depending on design implementation) much better max take off weight (hence applications like, F-14, FB-111, Su-17/22, Su24, Mig23, Tornado, B-1, Tu22, Tu160, etc. ). It was researched heavily in 1930s by German aviation scientists. All blue prints stolen by U.S. (shared with the Brits) and Russia.

View attachment 790893

F-14 can also have fixed wing, and can be design with a single or still twin engine configuration.

Also the engine can be brought closer together for design requirements, if needs be.

View attachment 790895

The engine(s) can also be designed to be placed on top.

View attachment 790896

Engines on top need to be designed with great attention to a) Inlet flow recovery, b) Inlet flow distortion, c) Inlet Mach distribution. A few other things as well.

With every design, there are pros and cons. So AF requirements have to be near perfect in its crystal clarity, with detailed criteria analysis.

Finally, an AF has to decide with its political branch, and government, parliament, congress, etc. WHAT IS IT THAT THEY NEED AND CAN GET ... once that is clear, then choosing an air craft is much easier.

With regards to Iran, my own opinion is that they need ...

a) A single competent platform with long combat range, with BVR capability, long range missiles, good enough radar/avionics, aerial refueling, secure data link, and hopefully ECM/ECCM/IRCM

b) An air craft that does not cost a lot, is indigenous = 100% maintained and parts supplied, internally inside the country

c) Allows for large numbers to be built, and get our pilots up to date with training, new air combat tactics, and well trained maintenance crews (practice makes perfect)

There are a few other things I can think of, BUT considering where Iran is today, I would be happy with the above.

What platforms can Iran REALISTICALLY develop on its own to potentially deliver the above a/b/c ???

- F-14 can, if the engines are more powerful like AL21F (weighs a quarter ton less each, and has about 25% more afterburner, and 60% more non-afterburner thrust), offering a higher take off weight, more fuel to carry, reduced drag due to AL21F reduced engine air intake, and weight savings. A much better hybrid radar can be integrated with weapons systems like Fakour 90 (hopefully better missiles at the caliber of Phoenix but more modern components with ECM and better thermal batteries, etc.). Iran is already able to do the Wingbox, Swing Wing Servos, Swing Wing Actuators and Spindle. Titanium is an issue, but Iran is currently on a good track with that.

- F-4e can, may be even somewhat easier than F-14. The engines will be the easiest, since AL21F is almost same dimensions as the J79, in weight, length, width and Iran has F-4Ds, they can design radar housing with space for solid state power amplifiers, processors, coolant, oxygen generator, and can develop and integrate the under belly fuel tank. The only problem they have to solve is the weak landing gears (main).

View attachment 790903

View attachment 790904


Hope I gave you some ideas, food for thought, potential scenarios, and possibilities.

The design and development and final platform is easy, compared to how hard it is to have a CLEAR DECISION ALONG WITH THE POLITICAL WILL AND THE CAPITAL on what Iran needs short-term to mid-term and what STRATEGIES it is meant to fulfill. Hope Iran AF or AF planners and decision makers have a GREAT JUDGEMENT. I can only pray and hope it is the case.


Could you please stop posting stupid what-if and kindergarten-ideas? :crazy: :hitwall:

This is a thread for IRIAF-news and discussion and not on some fan-boy's wet-dreams. To think Iran could build a F-4-alike type is beyond anything and to think a single engined F-14 with top mounted engine intakes :fie: added by a sentence "I gave you some ideas, food for thought, potential scenarios, and possibilities" and "Hope Iran AF or AF planners and decision makers have a GREAT JUDGEMENT" show only that you have no clue on Iran's capabilities and lack of, no understanding of what the IRIAF needs and wants and even lesser on aircraft development and engineering. :omghaha:


So just plain and simple: STOP with these wet-dreams in this thread. Start a new one called "my own fancy ideas and why the IRIAF should listen to me" but here stop with this BS!
 
.
Could you please stop posting stupid what-if and kindergarten-ideas? :crazy: :hitwall:

This is a thread for IRIAF-news and discussion and not on some fan-boy's wet-dreams. To think Iran could build a F-4-alike type is beyond anything and to think a single engined F-14 with top mounted engine intakes :fie: added by a sentence "I gave you some ideas, food for thought, potential scenarios, and possibilities" and "Hope Iran AF or AF planners and decision makers have a GREAT JUDGEMENT" show only that you have no clue on Iran's capabilities and lack of, no understanding of what the IRIAF needs and wants and even lesser on aircraft development and engineering. :omghaha:


So just plain and simple: STOP with these wet-dreams in this thread. Start a new one called "my own fancy ideas and why the IRIAF should listen to me" but here stop with this BS!

Hmmm...... why not engage with him in a cordial exchange of thoughts instead of unjustly berating him for giving his opinion based on his background knowledge/experience?

Exactly who are you anyways and why have you acted in such an irresponsible manner?
I will get banned for saying this but i don't really care so here it goes : Fck you and the horse you rode in on.
Who the hell are you to say what Iranian users should post or not? He is well on topic offering his own ideas about the IRIAF. If you are too upset for some fked up weird reason then that is your problem.

@EvilWesteners i support you and everything you post. Continue it my brother.

This is the first time I've seen a mod act in such a bizarre way.

What an odd post, seriously wtf was he thinking?
 
.
Hmmm...... why not engage with him in a cordial exchange of thoughts instead of unjustly berating him for giving his opinion based on his background knowledge/experience?

Exactly who are you anyways and why have you acted in such an irresponsible manner?


This is the first time I've seen a mod act in such a bizarre way.

What an odd post, seriously wtf was he thinking?


Sorry my friend, but if one claims, there is intelligent live on Venus and he only knows, NASA should listed since this and that it is surely not MY duty to prove the contrary, but it is HIS duty to be taken seriously to explain why he thinks there is live on Venus. And here it is the same: Let him explain, why he thinks developing a single engined F-14 is within Iran's technical skills.

Otherwise it is nothing but hot air and wishful thinking ... again, this may be an intersting what-if discussion but NOT in the IRIAF-news thread!
 
.
Hmmm...... why not engage with him in a cordial exchange of thoughts instead of unjustly berating him for giving his opinion based on his background knowledge/experience?

Exactly who are you anyways and why have you acted in such an irresponsible manner?


This is the first time I've seen a mod act in such a bizarre way.

What an odd post, seriously wtf was he thinking?
Just flood his post with "Angry" tags and then we take it to Webmaster..
 
.
What are you talking about...Who are you to tell Iranians what to think....Just because you have "International Mod" tag does not mean you control What we Iranians think...He is talking about Future Iranian Fighter ...so he is well within the Thread scope...

I would have put these words in another way but your Title stops me..strip away that title and I can talk to you the way I want..🤬



@TheImmortal , @Bahram Esfandiari ,@WudangMaster ,@EvilWesteners ,@Darius77 ,@SalarHaqq, and all others

I suggest we take this mod's comments to the "Webmaster".

@Blue In Green
@QWECXZ ,@Raghfarm007

I'm just baffled, I thought these threads are meant for intellectual exchange and subsequent extrapolation of shared knowledge. To be fair, PeeD, Yavar and others also claim to have "insider" knowledge or close to it (on certain subjects) yet Evil gets called out? idk, this is just unbecoming really...

Regardless, Deino has just rallied the Iranians on PDF against him lmao, whether intentionally or not.
 
.
Sorry my friend, but if one claims, there is intelligent live on Venus and he only knows, NASA should listed since this and that it is surely not MY duty to prove the contrary, but it is HIS duty to be taken seriously to explain why he thinks there is live on Venus. And here it is the same: Let him explain, why he thinks developing a single engined F-14 is within Iran's technical skills.

Otherwise it is nothing but hot air and wishful thinking ... again, this may be an intersting what-if discussion but NOT in the IRIAF-news thread!

I have nothing against you at all, I'm just surprised really.

Evil's perspective is one of personal and deeply rooted experience within the field of aeronautics itself. His thoughts, opinions and suggestions on what path Iran should take presumably don't come a place of sheer ignorance but of first-hand knowledge (both practical and theoretical) about planes and their production.

Again, I would highly suggest you engage in a cordial back-and-forth with him, intellectually, of why you think Iran cannot do what he says Iran can do. Technical minutiae, nuances and highly detailed reasons why it's not possible for Iran do what Evil proposes is what we're looking for.

This is a forum (mutual exchange of thoughts) after-all, simply dismissing his claims as all folly doesn't befit neither you or the goals this forum is trying to achieve.
 
Last edited:
.
I'm just baffled, I thought these threads are meant for intellectual exchange and subsequent extrapolation of shared knowledge. To be fair, PeeD, Yavar and others also claim to have "insider" knowledge or close to it (on certain subjects) yet Evil gets called out? idk, this is just unbecoming really...

Regardless, Deino has just rallied the Iranians on PDF against him lmao, whether intentionally or not.


The funny part on this is, that even if I was well aware this might happen - in Germany we say, it was a planned push into a wasp's nest! - I'm indeed surprised by the irrational emotions.

It was never my intention to tell any Iranian, what to think, but only to stick to the topic.

At least everyone must admit, that discussing fancy ideas are indeed more "what-if"-alike discussions than "IRIAF-related news"!

So even if my tone was - to put it mildly - "provocative" there is at least in point in my intention.
 
.
The funny part on this is, that even if I was well aware this might happen - in Germany we say, it was a planned push into a wasp's nest! - I'm indeed surprised by the irrational emotions.

It was never my intention to tell any Iranian, what to think, but only to stick to the topic.

At least everyone must admit, that discussing fancy ideas are indeed more "what-if"-alike discussions than "IRIAF-related news"!

So even if my tone was - to put it mildly - "provocative" there is at least in point in my intention.
No big deal, everyone has bad hair days. Let's all stick together.
 
.
(deleted my post. I though it was the Chill thread)
 
.
The funny part on this is, that even if I was well aware this might happen - in Germany we say, it was a planned push into a wasp's nest! - I'm indeed surprised by the irrational emotions.

It was never my intention to tell any Iranian, what to think, but only to stick to the topic.

At least everyone must admit, that discussing fancy ideas are indeed more "what-if"-alike discussions than "IRIAF-related news"!

So even if my tone was - to put it mildly - "provocative" there is at least in point in my intention.

Oh lol, you are absolutely fine my friend. Truly I didn't think you did anything wrong.

I was just taken aback really, didn't feel any personal slight against me nor did I view your actions as being provocative against Iran/Iranians or the Iranians on PDF (at least where I am concerned).

My days of engaging in useless banter that results in only frustration are over, I just want a positive environment that nurtures healthy discussions.
 
.
The funny part on this is, that even if I was well aware this might happen - in Germany we say, it was a planned push into a wasp's nest! - I'm indeed surprised by the irrational emotions.

It was never my intention to tell any Iranian, what to think, but only to stick to the topic.

At least everyone must admit, that discussing fancy ideas are indeed more "what-if"-alike discussions than "IRIAF-related news"!

So even if my tone was - to put it mildly - "provocative" there is at least in point in my intention.
You come to a thread dedicated to the IRIAF and start abusing a respected member here. What the f you thought was going to happen? Nothing in his posts is off topic. Everything he said is related to the IRIAF, its current issues and what could be done to solve them. Explain how this is not relevant to IRIAF news AND DISCUSSIONS.
 
.
You come to a thread dedicated to the IRIAF and start abusing a respected member here. What the f you thought was going to happen? Nothing in his posts is off topic. Everything he said is related to the IRIAF, its current issues and what could be done to solve them. Explain how this is not relevant to IRIAF news AND DISCUSSIONS.


A claim a hypothetical single engined F-14 with top-mounted air intake de facto disqualifies anyone from being a reliable and respected member ... and NO, it is in NO WAY related to IRIAF news!
 
.
A claim a hypothetical single engined F-14 with top-mounted air intake de facto disqualifies anyone from being a reliable and respected member ... and NO, it is in NO WAY related to IRIAF news!
And who has the authority here to disqualify anyone from giving their opinions on certain aircraft configurations? The title of this thread is LITERALLY IRIAF NEWS and DISCUSSIONS

Discussion : the activity in which people talk about something and tell each other their ideas or opinions:

You know you are wrong but you are still continuing this nonsense. Just stop it, apologize and admit you were wrong and move on. What is wrong with you?
 
.
Sorry my friend, but if one claims, there is intelligent live on Venus and he only knows, NASA should listed since this and that it is surely not MY duty to prove the contrary, but it is HIS duty to be taken seriously to explain why he thinks there is live on Venus. And here it is the same: Let him explain, why he thinks developing a single engined F-14 is within Iran's technical skills.

Otherwise it is nothing but hot air and wishful thinking ... again, this may be an intersting what-if discussion but NOT in the IRIAF-news thread!
Sorry my friend, but if one claims, there is intelligent live on Venus and he only knows, NASA should listed since this and that it is surely not MY duty to prove the contrary, but it is HIS duty to be taken seriously to explain why he thinks there is live on Venus. And here it is the same: Let him explain, why he thinks developing a single engined F-14 is within Iran's technical skills.

Otherwise it is nothing but hot air and wishful thinking ... again, this may be an intersting what-if discussion but NOT in the IRIAF-news thread!
The person you made fun of has
And who has the authority here to disqualify anyone from giving their opinions on certain aircraft configurations? The title of this thread is LITERALLY IRIAF NEWS and DISCUSSIONS

Discussion : the activity in which people talk about something and tell each other their ideas or opinions:

You know you are wrong but you are still continuing this nonsense. Just stop it, apologize and admit you were wrong and move on. What is wrong with you?
If this person was just an individual PDF member we would have dismissed him just another ignorant person..He is a MOD and as such he used (mis-used) his authority to insult not only "evilwesterners" but the entire Iranian nation...and he did this without any provocation...:mad::mad:
 
.
The person you made fun of has

If this person was just an individual PDF member we would have dismissed him just another ignorant person..He is a MOD and as such he used (mis-used) his authority to insult not only "evilwesterners" but the entire Iranian nation...and he did this without any provocation...:mad::mad:

Dadash, this could be a simple case of mistaken intentions.

It seems that Deino's views are so staunchly opposed to Evil's, that naturally to him (that being Deino). Dismissing Evil's claims is/was the right action to take. But I don't think he meant to intentionally slight all Iranians and Iran itself, maliciously.

Agreed though, what he said wasn't becoming of a mod. Let's see what Evil has to say in response. I mean realistically we can just ignore what Deino says lol and just move on.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom