IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Ich]

Sorry for asking but what exactly makes all these "quantum" things 'quantum' to begin with?

Is this just a much better form of computing that allows for better overall combat capabilities/detection?

Faster computing. Also quantum radar cause some of the electrons in the stealth plane to influence other electrons far away to be in the same state/spin/nameit. The electrons are kinda mirrored and so the other side can make a projection where and what the electrons from they mirrored. Me think it will need some more developing time with this quantum radars.

 

[WudangMaster]

Sorry for asking but what exactly makes all these "quantum" things 'quantum' to begin with?

Is this just a much better form of computing that allows for better overall combat capabilities/detection?

More like they take advantage of effects that occur at the Planck scale. They will be helpful in certain things.

 

[Blue In Green]

Faster computing. Also quantum radar cause some of the electrons in the stealth plane to influence other electrons far away to be in the same state/spin/nameit. The electrons are kinda mirrored and so the other side can make a projection where and what the electrons from they mirrored. Me think it will need some more developing time with this quantum radars.

Thank you for the clarification!

 

[TheImmortal]

Sorry for asking but what exactly makes all these "quantum" things 'quantum' to begin with?

Is this just a much better form of computing that allows for better overall combat capabilities/detection?

Again I am by no means an expert, but I have watched many documentaries on space and quantum physics as it’s one of my favorite past times and this is what I have gathered.

Modern computers use a combinations of 0 and 1s at their “atomic level” (a bit/byte) .

Quantum computers use the laws of quantum physics to develop a “qubit” or a quantum bit. Instead of a system of 0’s and 1’s the qubit can be both a 0 and 1 at the same time. This “spooky” nature is how particles work at sub atomic level (both a particle and a wave at same time). This unlocks massive power potential when no longer restricted to a definitive bi-nominal probability (0 or 1).

If you tell a modern day supercomputer to guess a password it will go through trying each combination one after another till it finds the password.

If you tell a modern day quantum computer to guess a password it will create simultaneous parallel “worlds” and find the password and bring it into this “world”.

Quantum communication relies on this as well as a thing called quantum entanglement another aspect of quantum physics which basically states if two particles are “entangled” (ie have a relationship with one another) that when you manipulate one the other reacts instantly to that manipulation as if it “knows” the other has already been manipulated.

This opens up very important doorways in communication basically quantum encryption which would make it nearly impossible for any adversary to intercept communications between two devices that are using this process.

Quantum computers and quantum technology is going to be one of the greatest technologies created by mankind. I cannot stress enough, how game changing it will be from accurate simulations to predicting water physics in real time, to Artificial intelligence.

A fully mastered quantum computer could hack nearly any military grade encryption device in seconds and contain a power in the millions of times greater than modern traditional computers.

It will be one of mankind’s greatest inventions

 

[WudangMaster]

 

[Blue In Green]

Again I am by no means an expert, but I have watched many documentaries on space and quantum physics as it’s one of my favorite past times and this is what I have gathered.

Modern computers use a combinations of 0 and 1s at their “atomic level” (a bit/byte) .

Quantum computers use the laws of quantum physics to develop a “qubit” or a quantum bit. Instead of a system of 0’s and 1’s the qubit can be both a 0 and 1 at the same time. This “spooky” nature is how particles work at sub atomic level (both a particle and a wave at same time). This unlocks massive power potential when no longer restricted to a definitive bi-nominal probability (0 or 1).

If you tell a modern day supercomputer to guess a password it will go through trying each combination one after another till it finds the password.

If you tell a modern day quantum computer to guess a password it will create simultaneous parallel “worlds” and find the password and bring it into this “world”.

Quantum communication relies on this as well as a thing called quantum entanglement another aspect of quantum physics which basically states if two particles are “entangled” (ie have a relationship with one another) that when you manipulate one the other reacts instantly to that manipulation as if it “knows” the other has already been manipulated.

This opens up very important doorways in communication basically quantum encryption which would make it nearly impossible for any adversary to intercept communications between two devices that are using this process.

Quantum computers and quantum technology is going to be one of the greatest technologies created by mankind. I cannot stress enough, how game changing it will be from accurate simulations to predicting water physics in real time, to Artificial intelligence.

A fully mastered quantum computer could hack nearly any military grade encryption device in seconds and contain a power in the millions of times greater than modern traditional computers.

It will be one of mankind’s greatest inventions

Thank you so much bro!!

Was really confused since I always hear the quantum being thrown around but never really had an idea of what it was exactly lol, much appreciated.

 

[VEVAK]

Should be perfect for secure instantaneous communication needed for military equipment

 

[Sina-1]

It's not that simple! Yes the role of manned fighters will change but at the end of the day that swarm that your talking about still needs to reach them and catch them!
At what altitude and at what speeds and from what range is this swarm coming from?

Shahed 129 which is a more than a decade old flies on a 24kft altitude with a 24 hour endurance. It is not out of realm or possibility to assume Iran fielding UCAVs with 30kft altitude with even more endurance in the upcoming years. It is also very plausible that Iran will and can develop 100km range a2a missiles for its UCAVs.

For argument sake let's say that each of these UCAVs will cost Iran 100kUSD. That's 1000 UCAVs on each F35. Considering 100% secure datalink between the UCAVs and with the ground assets, the coordinated attacks on each enemy craft till be too overwhelming, do you not see this? Are you still of the opinion that manned fighter jets is the way to go? For me personally, the mathematics is very simple. When quantum and AI technologies are mature for military applications (2-3 years away) then manned fighters will be good for museums only.

There are so many factors that are against manned fighters. The weak link of these systems are usually human in the loop, for example the g-force limits completely dependent on the level the pilot can sustain so in a close combat situation they will be toast when going up against an asset that can tolerate many times the g-force limit!

Fact of the matter is that I have been arguing against manned fighters on this forum for years now. There is a good reason for why Iran has not invested much in this field because they have the clarity of thought to know that it is a dead end weapon.

 

[WudangMaster]

 

[VEVAK]

Shahed 129 which is a more than a decade old flies on a 24kft altitude with a 24 hour endurance. It is not out of realm or possibility to assume Iran fielding UCAVs with 30kft altitude with even more endurance in the upcoming years. It is also very plausible that Iran will and can develop 100km range a2a missiles for its UCAVs.

For argument sake let's say that each of these UCAVs will cost Iran 100kUSD. That's 1000 UCAVs on each F35. Considering 100% secure datalink between the UCAVs and with the ground assets, the coordinated attacks on each enemy craft till be too overwhelming, do you not see this? Are you still of the opinion that manned fighter jets is the way to go? For me personally, the mathematics is very simple. When quantum and AI technologies are mature for military applications (2-3 years away) then manned fighters will be good for museums only.

There are so many factors that are against manned fighters. The weak link of these systems are usually human in the loop, for example the g-force limits completely dependent on the level the pilot can sustain so in a close combat situation they will be toast when going up against an asset that can tolerate many times the g-force limit!

Fact of the matter is that I have been arguing against manned fighters on this forum for years now. There is a good reason for why Iran has not invested much in this field because they have the clarity of thought to know that it is a dead end weapon.

Again NOT that simple!

1. Iran can absolutely build 100km A2A missiles! The problem is targeting at that range, equipment required for targeting at that range, how big and heavy would such a missile would be...
So far we haven't even managed to put a Fakkor-90 missile on our Kowsar fighters let alone....

2. Shahed-129's fly at 150 kph and max out at 24,000 ft vs F-35's that will be cruising at 45000 ft at speed of over 1000 kph.
Sh-129 can currently be armed 1 AiM-9 or at best with future upgrades 2 AiM-9's with no more then ~10km range (6km of which would be needed to make up for the altitude) and due to the vast difference in speed even with an upgraded AiM-9 with a wide aspect ratio your target window will mere seconds.
Which means although you can potentially use them to target fighter jets just as AiM-9 armed Helo's have in the past been used to down fighters however the success ratio of such a platform would be far too low to be worth investigating in

3.In terms of costs, one of the reasons Iranian UCAV are affordable is because they don't have expensive radars. If you want a UCAV capable of targeting at 100km then you clearly have to equip it with some kind of multi million dollar radar because radars capable of targeting at such a range aren't cheap! And putting multi million dollar radars on slow, easy to shoot down platform with weak frames that also lack any kind of maneuverability makes no sense either.

Anyone who claims that investing in a domestic, heavy manned fighter is not a worth while investment clearly doesn't know what they are talking about.
Investing in a fighter isn't just about a fighter!

 

[Sina-1]

Iran can absolutely build 100km A2A missiles! The problem is targeting at that range, equipment required for targeting at that range, how big and heavy would such a missile would be...
So far we haven't even managed to put a Fakkor-90 missile on our Kowsar fighters let alone....

We could manage to do anything we want. Question is what we prioritise. My point is that anything and everything that has to do with manned fighters have been given low priority because of obvious reasons.

Shahed-129's fly at 150 kph and max out at 24,000 ft vs F-35's that will be cruising at 45000 ft at speed of over 1000 kph.
Sh-129 can currently be armed 1 AiM-9 or at best with future upgrades 2 AiM-9's with no more then ~10km range (6km of which would be needed to make up for the altitude) and due to the vast difference in speed even with an upgraded AiM-9 with a wide aspect ratio your target window will mere seconds.
Which means although you can potentially use them to target fighter jets just as AiM-9 armed Helo's have in the past been used to down fighters however the success ratio of such a platform would be far too low to be worth investigating in

I only took s129 as an example of old technology. My point is that new generation of Iran UCAVs will be much more potent. The power plant will be based on jahesh engine or variants of it. Hence the ceiling will be way above 30 000 ft.

In terms of costs, one of the reasons Iranian UCAV are affordable is because they don't have expensive radars. If you want a UCAV capable of targeting at 100km then you clearly have to equip it with some kind of multi million dollar radar because radars capable of targeting at such a range aren't cheap! And putting multi million dollar radars on slow, easy to shoot down platform with weak frames that also lack any kind of maneuverability makes no sense either.

First of, next generation Iranian UCAVs will not be slow and they will not be easy to shoot down. Also please respect the premise! The premise is WHEN quantum key distribution is rolled out in the military, then large amount of data can be transmitted in order to coordinate attacks on enemy craft. That is both command data, but also radar data. This data CANNOT be intercepted and it CANNOT be submitted to jamming. This means that distributed systems such as thousands of aerial and ground assets can completely annihilate any conventional foe.
All you assets do not have to have radar. All assets should not even have the best radars. All your assets do not need to be SoA systems either. Just by overpopulating the battlefield with thousand of potential harm for the enemy means that you are in a strategic dominance from the get go.

Anyone who claims that investing in a domestic, heavy manned fighter is not a worth while investment clearly doesn't know what they are talking about.
Investing in a fighter isn't just about a fighter!

You say this because you view the world from a legacy point of view. This is the viewpoint of many branches of artesh a well (Navy excluded). Innovators such as Hassan Tehrani Moghaddam, Elon Musk and Steve Jobs do not care or respect status quo, they leapfrog it!

 

[VEVAK]

We could manage to do anything we want. Question is what we prioritise. My point is that anything and everything that has to do with manned fighters have been given low priority because of obvious reasons.





I only took s129 as an example of old technology. My point is that new generation of Iran UCAVs will be much more potent. The power plant will be based on jahesh engine or variants of it. Hence the ceiling will be way above 30 000 ft.




First of, next generation Iranian UCAVs will not be slow and they will not be easy to shoot down. Also please respect the premise! The premise is WHEN quantum key distribution is rolled out in the military, then large amount of data can be transmitted in order to coordinate attacks on enemy craft. That is both command data, but also radar data. This data CANNOT be intercepted and it CANNOT be submitted to jamming. This means that distributed systems such as thousands of aerial and ground assets can completely annihilate any conventional foe.
All you assets do not have to have radar. All assets should not even have the best radars. All your assets do not need to be SoA systems either. Just by overpopulating the battlefield with thousand of potential harm for the enemy means that you are in a strategic dominance from the get go.


You say this because you view the world from a legacy point of view. This is the viewpoint of many branches of artesh a well (Navy excluded). Innovators such as Hassan Tehrani Moghaddam, Elon Musk and Steve Jobs do not care or respect status quo, they leapfrog it!

That is a closed minded way of looking at a fighter project.
A true fighter project would forces Iran to seriously invest in a wide range of tools, equipment and infrastructures that would not only be used in a fighter project but also used for developing and producing viable transport aircraft, more capable missiles, more capable UCAV's, more capable helos, more capable coms be they quantum or not, more capable sensors used in a wide range of industries, development of alloys and composites used in a wide range of industries to allow Iran to develop better products for use and export,....

As for using ground based quantum com's as a replacement for areal aircraft. 1st off we are decades away from such a reality to even be feasible. 2nd having fixed locations on the ground transmit and do all you target acquisition means an enemy could potentially take out vast majority of your fleet by targeting 10-20 fixed locations on the ground and we are easily +40 years away from proliferation to an extant that each UCAV squad would have it's own dedicated quantum com and it's own ground based search, track & targeting equipment.... Finally, your assuming that no one will ever be able to build a counter to quantum com's....

 

[foxhoundbis]

China and Russia have claimed manufacturing of quantum radars and detection of F22 and F35 with it.
US definitely has the technology ...

It is not a matter of claims, we are far from this. A Russian officer told me more than 15 years old,- before the F-22 became fully operational- The Russian Industry had been serial producing the radio photonic radar technologies. There was a legacy of USSR. Now we are from this, Russia is equipping its fighters with embedded radio photonic radars and laser weapons, besides a new generation of hypersonic air-air missiles.

 

[TheImmortal]

It is not a matter of claims, we are far from this. A Russian officer told me more than 15 years old,- before the F-22 became fully operational- The Russian Industry had been serial producing the radio photonic radar technologies. There was a legacy of USSR. Now we are from this, Russia is equipping its fighters with embedded radio photonic radars and laser weapons, besides a new generation of hypersonic air-air missiles.

US and Russia deep military state like began work on quantum technologies back in 90’s. It makes sense since military is 20-30 years ahead of civilian in certain fields.

One just needs to look at spy satellites that are decommissioned and given to NASA even 20
-30 year old spy satellites are more advanced then what NASA has in its arsenal.

 

[Philosopher]

Iran After Upgrading Fighter Jet Manufacturing Technology

TEHRAN (FNA)- Iranian Defense Minister Brigadier General Amir Hatami said that his country is seriously intent to enhance fighter jets manufacturing technology.

“Iran is seeking to enhance the technology for manufacturing fighter jets,” Hatami said on the sidelines of a visit to Aero India 2021 on Wednesday, adding, “Thanks to the efforts of air industry experts, we have developed indigenous products including Kowsar light jetfighter, Yasin training jetfighter, and various prototypes of helicopters and UAVs.”
He reiterated that all these achievements have been gained despite the imposition of illegal sanctions on the country by the US.

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