IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Shahryar Hedayati]

Guys , Which one ? Just sayin

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This one...

or maybe this one ....

 

[black-hawk_101]

Also, IRAN can now sign up a deal with Russia for possible joining of Land Vehicle, Marine Vessels and Aircraft production and R&D.

 

[masud]

and also su 34..................

 

[The Last of us]

@rahi2357

I think Iran's focus should be on 5th generation technology. Iran must not just buy the 5th gen planes, Iran must buy the technology and bring them to Iran and start manufacturing those technology inside. The airforce sector is one we are quite behind in, we need to close that gap very soon. We must get as much transfer of technology as possible and even try to buy into companies that have this tech.

There is no reason why Iran by the next decade, should not have couple hundred 5th plane and have the industrial capability inside to manufacture such planes as well. For that we need to be very pushing and try very hard to get the technology.

4th gen planes will be useful for only bombing terrorists like ISIS. For the real threats facing our airforce, Iran needs 5th gen planes.

 

[Daneshmand]

Yes sir . how many ?
But I think it's unlikely Russians sell PAK-FA to Iran ... or not anytime soon .

@The Last of us
Any comment ?

Ah, mmmm, 250 please.

With vanilla.

You are right. But there is no harm in trying. Putin is under pressure, Russia is under sanctions, and fighting a war in Ukraine.

PAK-FA and its FGFA version are suffering fund shortages and delays after delays. Iran is about to get hundreds of billions of dollars. It is quite a mouth watering deal. Russia needs the money. Putin is being isolated and he needs to have an improved economy both to be seen as tsar leader of Russia as well as for aesthetics of his upcoming re-election in 2018.

India has a 25-30 billion dollar program to get something about 200 of these custom designed for India and with complete technology transfer to be built in India.

Iran can do the same. It is all about money.

Second option should be J-20. Which is about as good.

@rahi2357

I think Iran's focus should be on 5th generation technology. Iran must not just buy the 5th gen planes, Iran must buy the technology and bring them to Iran and start manufacturing those technology inside. The airforce sector is one we are quire behind in, we need to close that gap very soon. We must get as much transfer of technology as possible and even try to buy into companies that have this tech.

There is no reason why Iran by the next decade, should not have couple hundred 5th plane and have the industrial capability inside to manufacture such planes as well. For that we need to be very pushing and try very hard to get the technology.

4th gen planes will be useful for only bombing terrorists like ISIS. For the real threats facing our airforce, Iran needs 5th gen planes.

You mean something like India's FGFA program? I fully support that.

 

[The Last of us]

You mean something like India's FGFA program? I fully support that.

That would be even better and I don't see why it is not possible. Russians will want to keep Iran in their side so Iran does not fully abandon them for the west. The very fact Putin lifted the embargo on the s-300 was an attempt to get on Iran's good side. It was a pure political move. Although they have been untrustworthy in the past (Remember shafaq?). this time we need to play our cards right and get them to stick to the program. Even shafaq was not a total loss as we still have the design for it, we only lack the engines.

I think any 5th generation technology is one we must try and get the technology for. Even if it just a small component. They key thing here is first Iran getting 5th get planes and then quickly developing the technology and industry to be able to make them ourselves. If we can get cooperation like FGFA then even better!

 

[Daneshmand]

That would be even better and I don't see why it is not possible. Russians will want to keep Iran in their side so Iran does not fully abandon them for the west. The very fact Putin lifted the embargo on the s-300 was an attempt to get on Iran's good side. It was a pure political move. Although they have been untrustworthy in the past (Remember shafaq?). this time we need to play our cards right and get them to stick to the program. Even shafaq was not a total loss as we still have the design for it, we only lack the engines.

I think any 5th generation technology is one we must try and get the technology for. Even if it just a small component. They key thing here is first Iran getting 5th get planes and then quickly developing the technology and industry to be able to make them ourselves. If we can get cooperation like FGFA then even better!

I think with proper and serious negotiation it is very much possible. Negotiators like Zarif who can go to China and Russia and negotiate for such technology transfers as Indians do. I am not sure if Iran's defense ministry even has any such negotiators.

And it is not only about military stuff. Iran needs lots of other technologies from water management systems, modern agriculture, geostationary satellites, automobile etc and all these need competent negotiators who can go and buy the best technology that can be bought. For example I have never understood why Iran gets its auto technology from France that makes crappy cars. No one in the world buys them. Any where in North America you can not even find a single French car in a one thousand kilometer radius. Why Iran does not negotiate with Germany or Japan?

I think most of these problems even with Shafagh comes back and has roots in the way Iran handles these things. I am not saying Russians are blameless. They should be blamed. But we should find what can we do to improve the situation. If India can do it with Russia today and if China was doing it with Russia 50 years ago, then why can't Iran do it. I just understand. Most probably because the defense ministry negotiators are people like Jalili. Dry, cold and stiff as an iron rod.

 

[The Last of us]

I think with proper and serious negotiation it is very much possible. Negotiators like Zarif who can go to China and Russia and negotiate for such technology transfers as Indians do. I am not sure if Iran's defense ministry even has any such negotiators.

And it is not only about military stuff. Iran needs lots of other technologies from water management systems, modern agriculture, geostationary satellites, automobile etc and all these need competent negotiators who can go and buy the best technology that can be bought. For example I have never understood why Iran gets its auto technology from France that makes crappy cars. No one in the world buys them. Any where in North America you can not even find a single French car in a one thousand kilometer radius. Why Iran does not negotiate with Germany or Japan?

I think most of these problems even with Shafagh comes back and has roots in the way Iran handles these things. I am not saying Russians are blameless. They should be blamed. But we should find what can we do to improve the situation. If India can do it with Russia today and if China was doing it with Russia 50 years ago, then why can't Iran do it. I just understand. Most probably because the defense ministry negotiators are people like Jalili. Dry, cold and stiff as an iron rod.

I hope so brother. I really hope we see some serious development in the airforce.
Our airdefence, missile etc are already top notch. Hopefully Iranian military officials will start to seriously concentrate on the airforce. The IRGC has been impressive with their development, but the regular army no so much. Lets hope that changes soon. Lets hope we see major development. It's been a long time coming.

 

[The Great One]

I think most of these problems even with Shafagh comes back and has roots in the way Iran handles these things. I am not saying Russians are blameless. They should be blamed. But we should find what can we do to improve the situation. If India can do it with Russia today and if China was doing it with Russia 50 years ago, then why can't Iran do it. I just understand. Most probably because the defense ministry negotiators are people like Jalili. Dry, cold and stiff as an iron rod.

I am not sure if the PAK-FA is a very good investment. There have been too many articles claiming that IAF doesn't like its stealth features as well as engines/radar . While the Su-55 aka FGFA is going to be different, how different could its airframe be? After all shaping is far too important for radar evasion. IMO Iran should probably look out for KF-X or TF-X. Those will atleast have a chance of proper ToT unlike the Russians who will give screwdriver tech after double-charging and much delays.
And for Ind-Rus collaboration, well, after cold-war ended India financed and bought a lot of Russian stuff, so there was and had always been a lot of mutual trust, viz why they offered us a 50:50 partnership in FGFA in the first place (apart from money) and money cannot buy this trust.

 

[Daneshmand]

I am not sure if the PAK-FA is a very good investment. There have been too many articles claiming that IAF doesn't like its stealth features as well as engines/radar . While the Su-55 aka FGFA is going to be different, how different could its airframe be? After all shaping is far too important for radar evasion. IMO Iran should probably look out for KF-X or TF-X. Those will atleast have a chance of proper ToT unlike the Russians who will give screwdriver tech after double-charging and much delays.
And for Ind-Rus collaboration, well, after cold-war ended India financed and bought a lot of Russian stuff, so there was and had always been a lot of mutual trust, viz why they offered us a 50:50 partnership in FGFA in the first place (apart from money) and money cannot buy this trust.

PAK-FA is good enough for Iran. TF-X and KF-X are jokes. In that category we already have Q-313. Russia has been building planes since when my great grand daddy was playing with his toys. I would rather trust Russians.

I hope so brother. I really hope we see some serious development in the airforce.
Our airdefence, missile etc are already top notch. Hopefully Iranian military officials will start to seriously concentrate on the airforce. The IRGC has been impressive with their development, but the regular army no so much. Lets hope that changes soon. Lets hope we see major development. It's been a long time coming.

I hear you. Air force really needs some new equipment. No major purchases have happened in the past 40 years.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Its better for IRAN to make up a deal with US for the possible supply of Engine and Airframe spares all of them for:
F-14s - A4 and F-5s
Also, possible sale of Mirage F1s to Morocco as spares or full aircraft.

Moreover, buying used Russian MiG-29s with latest upgrades and also PAF F-7Ps with trainers too.

For God's sake there can't be any spare part for f-14 from anywhere around the world but Iran even usa cant produce those equipment anymore as they destroyed the tools needed to produce the parts.

@rahi2357

I think Iran's focus should be on 5th generation technology. Iran must not just buy the 5th gen planes, Iran must buy the technology and bring them to Iran and start manufacturing those technology inside. The airforce sector is one we are quite behind in, we need to close that gap very soon. We must get as much transfer of technology as possible and even try to buy into companies that have this tech.

There is no reason why Iran by the next decade, should not have couple hundred 5th plane and have the industrial capability inside to manufacture such planes as well. For that we need to be very pushing and try very hard to get the technology.

4th gen planes will be useful for only bombing terrorists like ISIS. For the real threats facing our airforce, Iran needs 5th gen planes.

You want a 5th generatio you must invest in it and learn it no one will hand the technology to you

 

[The Great One]

PAK-FA is good enough for Iran. TF-X and KF-X are jokes. In that category we already have Q-313. Russia has been building planes since when my great grand daddy was playing with his toys. I would rather trust Russians.

The point of PAK-FA is stealth. And PAK-FA has too many irregularities visible to even eyeballs - exposed inlet fan, naked engine, rivets etc. So has been said by IAF too.
KF-X is being assisted by Lockheed and already found a customer/partner in Indonesia with fixed orders. It is very much real. Although partnership with Lockheed also creates an obstacle as do its GE engines, so on second thought that's probably a bad idea. I don't know how far TF-X has progressed. Overall, if I were Iran I would take Su-35 for today.

 

[Daneshmand]

The point of PAK-FA is stealth. And PAK-FA has too many irregularities visible to even eyeballs - exposed inlet fan, naked engine, rivets etc. So has been said by IAF too.
KF-X is being assisted by Lockheed and already found a customer/partner in Indonesia with fixed orders. It is very much real. Although partnership with Lockheed also creates an obstacle as do its GE engines, so on second thought that's probably a bad idea. I don't know how far TF-X has progressed. Overall, if I were Iran I would take Su-35 for today.

Even if it is not stealth and even it glows on radar screen like a 200 W bulb, still it is good enough for Iran. If KF-X is being designed by US, then it is OUT OF QUESTION that Iran will be able to get it. As for TF-X, we already have Q-313. We do not need two Q-313 in different layouts.

The point is, Iran needs new fighter jets. These will be bought either from Russia or China. In this regard Russia has much more experience. If Russia refuses then backup option is China.

By the way the kind of objections that you raise about PAk-FA also have been raised against F-22 which kills its pilot midflight in the cockpit, and F-35 which apparently can hardly fly let alone manuever. I am sure if the PAK-FA was that bad, India would have terminated the project. I personally see PAK-FA as an improved low cross section version of Su-35 with possibility of future gradual upgreades over the life of the plane. And at the end you get what you pay for. At less than half the price of F-35, this is what you get. Which is good enough.

 

[The Great One]

Even if it is not stealth and even it glows on radar screen like a 200 W bulb, still it is good enough for Iran. If KF-X is being designed by US, then it is OUT OF QUESTION that Iran will be able to get it. As for TF-X, we already have Q-313. We do not need two Q-313 in different layouts.

Once again, PAK-FA is being touted as Fifth Generation plane. We all know that Russia is miles behind the West when in comes to Electronics and EW, but if the plane lacks stealth itself, then what is the point of paying the extra buck over the Su 35's?

By the way the kind of objections that you raise about PAk-FA also have been raised against F-22 which kills its pilot midflight in the cockpit, and F-35 which apparently can hardly fly let alone manuever. I am sure if the PAK-FA was that bad, India would have terminated the project. I personally see PAK-FA as an improved low cross section version of Su-35 with possibility of future gradual upgreades over the life of the plane. And at the end you get what you pay for. At less than half the price of F-35, this is what you get. Which is good enough.

The kind of objections I raised are very fundamental. The ones which you raised are used only by looney conspiracy theorists. F-35 is as nimble as the F-16 per actual quote of its pilots. The oxygen problem on F-22 was discovered, studied and solved.
As for India, we only signed a preliminary draft agreement in 2007. The final contract was to be signed in 2012 and as per latest news, things have progressed to such a place that Indian MoD refused to meet a Russian delegation to discuss this issue. You saw all the MMRCA drama that just happened? According to our Ex-Navy Chief, FGFA is in a deeper shithole. Also it's claimed price of $100mn unit is costlier than F-35's expected price of $85mn a pop. Which is a bit optimistic considering that our last batch of Su 30MKI's came in at $80mn each.

 

[Daneshmand]

Once again, PAK-FA is being touted as Fifth Generation plane. We all know that Russia is miles behind the West when in comes to Electronics and EW, but if the plane lacks stealth itself, then what is the point of paying the extra buck over the Su 35's?

The kind of objections I raised are very fundamental. The ones which you raised are used only by looney conspiracy theorists. F-35 is as nimble as the F-16 per actual quote of its pilots. The oxygen problem on F-22 was discovered, studied and solved.
As for India, we only signed a preliminary draft agreement in 2007. The final contract was to be signed in 2012 and as per latest news, things have progressed to such a place that Indian MoD refused to meet a Russian delegation to discuss this issue. You saw all the MMRCA drama that just happened? According to our Ex-Navy Chief, FGFA is in a deeper shithole. Also it's claimed price of $100mn unit is costlier than F-35's expected price of $85mn a pop. Which is a bit optimistic considering that our last batch of Su 30MKI's came in at $80mn each.

Then India should pull out of the project instead of pouring in 30 billion dollars into it. India has the option to go with F-35. Iran will be glad to fill India's role in FGFA. How much India has spent in FGFA? Five billion? I am sure Iran can write the check for that and take over. Happy?

By the way F-35 is going to cost 150 to 200 million dollar a pop. Not 85 million. US sells F-16 for 85 million dollars.