IRIAF | News and Discussions

[mohsen]

How quick you seem to forget.

It was Russia's Air Force that turned the tide of the Syrian civil war not Iran's militias, not Iran's ballistic missiles, not Iran's strategies.

That's what you love to believe, but your soldiers on the battlefield say something else:

FSA rebels: We would have won if not for Iran | Syria News | Al Jazeera

 

[veg]

How quick you seem to forget.

It was Russia's Air Force that turned the tide of the Syrian civil war not Iran's militias, not Iran's ballistic missiles, not Iran's strategies.

Please note 2 things.

(1) Russian Air Force did this job against a non-existent Air Defence System.

(2) But in case of Iran, it has to face US and it's allies, who all have much advanced Air Defence Systems as compared to Iran.
In this situation Iranian Fighter Jets have absolutely no chance.

So, the condition applies here is this: "If even the Iranian air defence systems are able to hit F-16s and F-15s and F-35s of the opponents, then the opponents also have absolutely no chance against Iran and their Air Force also becomes useless.

 

[Parsipride]

Please note 2 things.

(1) Russian Air Force did this job against a non-existent Air Defence System.

(2) But in case of Iran, it has to face US and it's allies, who all have much advanced Air Defence Systems as compared to Iran.
In this situation Iranian Fighter Jets have absolutely no chance.

So, the condition applies here is this: "If even the Iranian air defence systems are able to hit F-16s and F-15s and F-35s of the opponents, then the opponents also have absolutely no chance against Iran and their Air Force also becomes useless.

The monkeys across the Persian Gulf do not have F-35S. Even if our air defenses are 50% accurate, we will annihilate them. Then the missiles start raining down.

Arab League To Hold Urgent Meeting On Iran As Saudis Reportedly Mobilize Fighter Jets

So the monkeys cannot beat Yemen after 2 years, now they want to start a war with Iran.

CAIRO (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia has called for an urgent meeting of Arab League foreign ministers in Cairo next week to discuss Iran’s intervention in the region, an official league source told Egypt’s MENA state news agency on Sunday.

The call came after the resignation of Lebanon’s prime minister pushed Beirut back into the center of a rivalry between Sunni kingdom Saudi Arabia and Shi‘ite Iran and heightened regional tensions.

 

[VEVAK]

just stop this kind of nonsense .... even if they make it , it will be just 0ne or 2 prototype ... just like so called Karrar Mbt ...



Kowsar is just another project to just fill some random guys resume and a useless propaganda tool .... nothing more ...

our administrators are corrupted and with this kind of people , we can't make even WW II fighters till 3017 ....

1.There is corruption in every country! In the U.S. they sell the Javelin ATGM to their military for $126,000 USD for each system & $70,000 USD per missile
And the fact is even if you were to build something far superior to the Javelin at half the selling price your still not going to get that contract from the U.S. military!
You think that's not corruption?

Even with $1Million USD worth of yearly bribes aka "Campaign Contributions" + a Missile that have 10x the range
and is less than half the price of each Javelin you still won't be able to get that contract!

Iran only spends $6Billion USD per year on weapons acquisition by comparison Iran Khodro 2011 revenue was $12 Billion USD! And that's just one car company in Iran so there just isn't much room for corruption in Iran's MOD because Iran isn't really spending a lot of money on weapons acquisition.

2.Iran's Air Force has already ordered 50 Kowsar Jet trainers and at the latest 1st batch should be delivered in the next 3 years so we'll see soon enough!

3.Karrar MBT is just an upgraded T-72 with a new Turret & added electronics, optics & sensors and Iran has produced the T-72 in the past under license. Plus, Iran can upgrade it's current T-72 to the Karrar every time they need to go in for a full overhaul
Again nothing special for Iran not to be able to produce and if Iran is not buying T-90's for $2 Million USD each it's because they can get more bang for their buck using that money to produce various other weapons systems with that cash

For example instead of buying 10 $2 Million USD T-90's ($20M)you can build:

1.50 $20,000 USD trucks & arm each of them with a $20,000 infantry support weapon like an ATGM or multiple rockets or a drone... ($2M)
2. 8 Shahed-129 UAV's ($4M)
3. 8-10 Precision guided Fatteh-110 ($4M)
4. 4 $1Million USD armored mobile command & control stations ($4M)
5. 20 $100,000 USD armed UGV ($2M)
6. $2Million USD worth of mobile Air Defense equipment like the herz-9 ($2M)
7. 8 IFV/APC Howeyzeh and Talayeieh

Now which is more intimidating? all of that or 10 T-90's

 

[VEVAK]

Please note 2 things.

(1) Russian Air Force did this job against a non-existent Air Defence System.

(2) But in case of Iran, it has to face US and it's allies, who all have much advanced Air Defence Systems as compared to Iran.
In this situation Iranian Fighter Jets have absolutely no chance.

So, the condition applies here is this: "If even the Iranian air defence systems are able to hit F-16s and F-15s and F-35s of the opponents, then the opponents also have absolutely no chance against Iran and their Air Force also becomes useless.

You think Iran is going to use it's Air Force for it's initial retaliation against any attack? LOL!

Yea that's why Iran's built over 40 "Large" Ballistic Missile bases not to mention the small bases or the cruise missile bases,.....

Iran's Ballistic Missile, Cruise Missile & UAV capabilities are nothing compared to what it was in 2002 & the U.S. got it's answer using it's own simulation of "KNOWN" Iranian weapons in it's Millennial challenge 2002!

At that time Iran's cruise missiles had a max range of 400km, Iran's Fatteh-110 had a CEP of ~500meters, Iran had just started producing 50 Shahab-3's per year at a max range of 1,300km (Which was the longest range BM Iran had) the most advanced Iranian UAV was 250km Mohajer UAV


In a war with Iran Saudi Arabia would have to park it's Air Force at least 600km from Iranian Territory! Right now they need U.S. logistical support to bomb a country right off their own boarder & still they can't stop them from firing Missies at them!
Yes, the Saudi's would have absolute Air Superiority if Iran was going to use it's Air Force but based on Iran's weapons production and acquisition any Idiot can see that Iran has shown no interest in taking that route!
Even if Iran buy's 100 Su-30's in the next 10 years those fighters will mainly be for Air Defense operations over Iranian territory!

Iran's initial response will be with ~1000 missiles in the 1st day & Iran produces a large variety of missiles and they can probably maintain a 200 missile monthly attack using it's current production capacity & stockpile of 1000's of missiles in storage!

with 1000 missiles even if 80% fail to reach target or get intercepted and that's an extremely optimistic figure!!
a more realistic figure would be ~35% success rate for Iran at the start & that number slowly increases as Iran makes adjustments to it's missiles & Saudi Air Defense gets damaged or depleted)

so that's at the very least 200-350 hits out of 1000
That's:
20-35 missiles on major Saudi Oil infrastructure!
20-35 missiles on Saudi Power Plants
20-35 Missiles on Saudi Ports & naval bases
20-35 Missiles on Major Saudi Radars & Air Defense
20-35 missiles on major Saudi command and control & communication infrastructure
20-35 missiles on Saudi Royal family & it's assets
20-35 missiles on Saudi Depot & other critical financial infrastructure
20-35 missiles on Saudi Army Bases, Missile Facilities,...
40-70 missiles on Saudi Air Force Bases (within 800km of Iranian Airspace)

And that's just with 1000 Iranian missiles which is NOTHING compared to Iran's overall stockpile!

In the past 20 years Iran's produced Fatteh-110, Fatteh-313, Zolfaghar, Sejil-2, Shahab-2, Shahab-3, Qiam-1, Ghadr-H, Ghadr-F, Emad-1, Soumar, Ya-Ali missiles. All of which are capable of reaching various targets in Saudi Arabia & 100 of each is really nothing for Iran!

And that's not including Iranian Anti-ship Missile or Air Launched cruise missiles or new missiles like the Khorramshar & other missiles Iran has not made public or unguided rockets like the Zelzal....

To top that off Iranian UAV's & UCAV's will likely go after soft targets like Oil rigs, Factories,....

 

[veg]

You think Iran is going to use it's Air Force for it's initial retaliation against any attack? LOL!

Yea that's why Iran's built over 40 "Large" Ballistic Missile bases not to mention the small bases or the cruise missile bases,.....

Iran's Ballistic Missile, Cruise Missile & UAV capabilities are nothing compared to what it was in 2002 & the U.S. got it's answer using it's own simulation of "KNOWN" Iranian weapons in it's Millennial challenge 2002!

At that time Iran's cruise missiles had a max range of 400km, Iran's Fatteh-110 had a CEP of ~500meters, Iran had just started producing 50 Shahab-3's per year at a max range of 1,300km (Which was the longest range BM Iran had) the most advanced Iranian UAV was 250km Mohajer UAV


In a war with Iran Saudi Arabia would have to park it's Air Force at least 600km from Iranian Territory! Right now they need U.S. logistical support to bomb a country right off their own boarder & still they can't stop them from firing Missies at them!
Yes, the Saudi's would have absolute Air Superiority if Iran was going to use it's Air Force but based on Iran's weapons production and acquisition any Idiot can see that Iran has shown no interest in taking that route!
Even if Iran buy's 100 Su-30's in the next 10 years those fighters will mainly be for Air Defense operations over Iranian territory!

Iran's initial response will be with ~1000 missiles in the 1st day & Iran produces a large variety of missiles and they can probably maintain a 200 missile monthly attack using it's current production capacity & stockpile of 1000's of missiles in storage!

with 1000 missiles even if 80% fail to reach target or get intercepted and that's an extremely optimistic figure!!
a more realistic figure would be ~35% success rate for Iran at the start & that number slowly increases as Iran makes adjustments to it's missiles & Saudi Air Defense gets damaged or depleted)

so that's at the very least 200-350 hits out of 1000
That's:
20-35 missiles on major Saudi Oil infrastructure!
20-35 missiles on Saudi Power Plants
20-35 Missiles on Saudi Ports & naval bases
20-35 Missiles on Major Saudi Radars & Air Defense
20-35 missiles on major Saudi command and control & communication infrastructure
20-35 missiles on Saudi Royal family & it's assets
20-35 missiles on Saudi Depot & other critical financial infrastructure
20-35 missiles on Saudi Army Bases, Missile Facilities,...
40-70 missiles on Saudi Air Force Bases (within 800km of Iranian Airspace)

And that's just with 1000 Iranian missiles which is NOTHING compared to Iran's overall stockpile!

In the past 20 years Iran's produced Fatteh-110, Fatteh-313, Zolfaghar, Sejil-2, Shahab-2, Shahab-3, Qiam-1, Ghadr-H, Ghadr-F, Emad-1, Soumar, Ya-Ali missiles. All of which are capable of reaching various targets in Saudi Arabia & 100 of each is really nothing for Iran!

And that's not including Iranian Anti-ship Missile or Air Launched cruise missiles or new missiles like the Khorramshar & other missiles Iran has not made public or unguided rockets like the Zelzal....

To top that off Iranian UAV's & UCAV's will likely go after soft targets like Oil rigs, Factories,....

I wish all this is true and Iran has indeed invested all the money for Fighter Jets into the missiles, and thus possessing thousands of missiles today instead of 300-400 fighter jets.

Question is, does Iran need fighter jets for "Defensive Purposes"? Or that job could also be done with air defence missiles and fighter drones like Sofar-e-Mahi.

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

 

[raptor22]

 

[VEVAK]

I wish all this is true and Iran has indeed invested all the money for Fighter Jets into the missiles, and thus possessing thousands of missiles today instead of 300-400 fighter jets.

Question is, does Iran need fighter jets for "Defensive Purposes"? Or that job could also be done with air defence missiles and fighter drones like Sofar-e-Mahi.

1.Currently UCAV may be able to fill the role of Close Air Support, strikes, hassle incoming fighters, target subsonic mid altitude aircraft, UAV's & Helo's but they are far from being able to go up against BVR equipped Supersonic Air superiority fighters in any meaningful way!

Pilots know "Speed is life"! If Iran limits it's self with subsonic UCAV for Air Defense then all the U.S. would need to do is equip B-2 & B-1 bombers with bunch of Air to Air missiles & they'll be able to shoot down Iranian Air Defense UCAV like fly's

Iran is just too vast of a country and lack of any supersonic air superiority fighter or interceptor leaves a BIG whole in your countries ability to defend it's Air Space against countries capable of taking advantage of that like the U.S!

2.If Iran makes the Sofreh Mahi Supersonic, arms it with BVR Missiles, advanced sensors,..... at some point the price tag would get so high that it wouldn't make sense not putting a pilot on the aircraft rather than ground control systems that also cost money, that can be jammed, hacked or taken out from long ranges!

Targeting UAV ground control systems on the ground from 1000km-2000km away is really not that difficult for any major power but targeting a high speed aircraft in the air from that range is practically impossible & that's what makes Air assets valuable because you can scramble your aircraft to prevent them from being easy targets!

And for a country like Iran even a SATCOM version wouldn't make a difference because you still have to transmit from the ground! SATCOM may make all the difference in the world for the U.S. against Iran because their ground control operators can operate from over 10,000km away but Iran doesn't have that luxury!


3. As for Iran's Missiles
I would say Iran currently on a yearly bases is produces at the very least
100 Fatteh-110
100 Fatteh-313
100 Zolfaghar Missiles
100 Qiam-1 Missiles
50 Ya-Ali cruise missiles
50 Sejil-2 Missiles
50 Emad Missiles
50 Gadr-H
50 Gadr-F
50 Soumar Cruise Missiles

I doubt it would cost Iran even $1Billion USD to produce that many missiles!

And this is during peace time with facilities producing far from max capacity so even at a min production rate of 700 missiles on a yearly bases that would be 2,800 missiles massed just in the past 4 years alone! Lets say in the 6 years before that Iran was producing only 500 missiles per year that's another 3000 for a total of ~5,800 +300km missiles massed since 2007! And that's an extremely low figure!

And I would say it's safe to assume that of the $6Billion USD Iran is spending on weapons acquisition at the very least $1Billion USD is strictly spent on land attack missiles with ranges beyond 300km!

You have to realize that since 2002 U.S. has threatened Iran, called Iran the Axis of Evil, carries out simulated attacks against Iran, has built over 30 bases surrounding Iran, targeted Iran's economy,.... So I would say spending $1Billion USD a year over the past 15 years would be the absolute minimum for Iran's Ballistic Missile program and even at a cost of $2 Million USD per that would be 7,500 Missiles massed in the past 15 years! and $2m would likely be the MOST expensive missile Iran is producing today!

 

[TheImmortal]

2.If Iran makes the Sofreh Mahi Supersonic, arms it with BVR Missiles, advanced sensors,..... at some point the price tag would get so high that it wouldn't make sense not putting a pilot on the aircraft rather than ground control systems that also cost money, that can be jammed, hacked or taken out from long ranges!

Is there any proof that project is even active?

The sofreh mahi project was a very early stage project before Iran captured an RQ-170. The last I heard of it I think they designed a sub scale prototype or maybe mock up for testing.

Now that Iran has an actual viable flying wing design that it could enlarge if it so desired.....why would Iran go with the Sofreh Mahi project?

Iran loves copying Western arms and to some extent eastern arms. It would rather use Western designs especially in the UAV field as the basis of its UAVs than struggle with a brand new design.

That's one of the reasons the airforce is just a depleted mess. They can't even get their own designed light weight fighter project (F-313) past taxi testing after 5 years!

 

[Hack-Hook]

Is there any proof that project is even active?

The sofreh mahi project was a very early stage project before Iran captured an RQ-170. The last I heard of it I think they designed a sub scale prototype or maybe mock up for testing.

Now that Iran has an actual viable flying wing design that it could enlarge if it so desired.....why would Iran go with the Sofreh Mahi project?

Iran loves copying Western arms and to some extent eastern arms. It would rather use Western designs especially in the UAV field as the basis of its UAVs than struggle with a brand new design.

That's one of the reasons the airforce is just a depleted mess. They can't even get their own designed light weight fighter project (F-313) past taxi testing after 5 years!

Do you really think f-313 progress is slow ?
Specially for a country that never designed an airplane before and considering F-313 unorthodox design .why not compare it with su-47 or x-29.
Its problem with unorthodox designs specially if all the aspects of a viable program is not already ready and is in development.
And don't forget before it air force was not top priority for Iran .

 

[VEVAK]

Is there any proof that project is even active?

The sofreh mahi project was a very early stage project before Iran captured an RQ-170. The last I heard of it I think they designed a sub scale prototype or maybe mock up for testing.

Now that Iran has an actual viable flying wing design that it could enlarge if it so desired.....why would Iran go with the Sofreh Mahi project?

Iran loves copying Western arms and to some extent eastern arms. It would rather use Western designs especially in the UAV field as the basis of its UAVs than struggle with a brand new design.

That's one of the reasons the airforce is just a depleted mess. They can't even get their own designed light weight fighter project (F-313) past taxi testing after 5 years!

NO! It was just an example! Vag said the Sofreh Mahi could be made to fill the role of Air superiority fighters & interceptors... and I was just explaining to make such a UAV capable enough that it could fully take on that role so Iran wouldn't need manned Air Superiority fighters the price tag of such a UAV will be so high that it wouldn't make sense NOT putting a pilot on it because the aircraft will not only have to be Supersonic but it will require enough thrust and power to carry a massive Radar, various other sensors and communication systems & massive BVR missiles!

Subsonic manned or unmanned aircraft may be able to hassle an incoming fleet of supersonic fighters but by no means will they have the capability to go up against them in any meaning full way that they could fully replace Iran's requirements for Air superiority fighters or interceptors

Sofreh Mahi is clearly designed to have a high maneuvering capability which means Sofreh Mahi design if produced could potentially be equipped with IR missiles & it would be a good replacement for the Karrar-4 BUT the RQ-170 design will NEVER be able to fill that role due to a lack of maneuverability!

As for Designing your own platform whether it be SAM missiles, fighter jets or helicopters will cost far more than reverse engineering proven known designs and that's is the MAIN reason Iran sticks to reverse engineering! So limited funding is the main reason Iran sticks with reverse engineering NOT anything else!!

I personally believe the F-313 project should have been cancelled years ago! I think Iran's Air Force should have taken issue with that design from the start & the aircraft should have never been made public! They are wasting time on a high drag platform with limited thrust, payload, limited speed, limited sensor, limited situational awareness, limited maneuverability and extremely low survivability! So the fact that Iran hasn't gone all in with that project is really not surprising!
The F-313 may have a lot of supporters in Iran amongst people that don't have a clue because to them it "looks cool" but I doubt it has much support amongst experienced pilots in Iran!

Iran's new Defense Minister just recently announced plans to produce a new heavy fighter now if that fighter is a co-production of the Su-30 or an Iranian design I couldn't tell you but at least they have finally realized that Building a manned fighter Airframe without Titanium & Ti/aluminum composites is NOT realistic!

Also, technology in directed energy weapons & directed energy countermeasures are advancing everyday and as that technology advances manned fighters that don't have the thrust, power & payload capacity to carry & power such systems will be obsolete and that means the F-313 was built without a seconds thought to what a future battle field would look like and that makes it a platform that is most definitely not worth investing in at least not in any significant way!
And if anyone thinks directed energy weapons are this futuristic thing that's decades away from reality then they are living in a bubble!

 

[VEVAK]

Do you really think f-313 progress is slow ?
Specially for a country that never designed an airplane before and considering F-313 unorthodox design .why not compare it with su-47 or x-29.
Its problem with unorthodox designs specially if all the aspects of a viable program is not already ready and is in development.
And don't forget before it air force was not top priority for Iran .

The F-313 program is an absurd program that that the Air Force should have stood up against!
It would be both cheaper in the long run & far more effective military to build a single $100 Million USD fighter (The most advanced fighter within Iran's capability to build) as appose to building 10 $10Million USD F-313 fighters!

for every 10 F-313 fighters you need 40 Jet engines as appose to 4 engines for a single twin engine heavy $100 Million USD fighter

You'll need 10 Aircraft shelters / bunkers as appose to a single heavily fortified bunker

You'll need to fuel 10 aircrafts as appose to 1 which means 10X more fuel equipment on the ground & even on a heavier fighter the overall fuel cost will be at least 3-5 times more

You'll need to train at least 5x as many pilots (single seat vs twin seat) & you'll need 10X as many sorties for training

You'll need 10 times as many maintenance equipment, parts & 10x as many maintenance personal on the ground

And at the end of the day 10 F-313's will NOT be able to go up against a single $100 Million USD 5th generation fighter!

Asymmetric warfare on the ground works for Iran because for the price of 10 T-90's ($20M) Iran can build a large verity of weapons & equipment that could easily take on 10 Abrams tanks and it may be the same at sea with the Navy but it's not the same with the Air Force at least the F-313 is not an Aircraft that could fill that role due to the high operating costs of fighter jets!

 

[skyshadow]

 

[raptor22]