Iran’s Chabahar won’t vie with Pakistan’s Gwadar: Experts

[randomradio]

This article drives home the point. A lot of eye openers. But since it was written by an Indian, take it for what it's worth, but note that nothing in it is actually false.

http://swarajyamag.com/world/china-pak-economic-corridor-why-gwadar-is-an-overrated-port

Stuff that's relevant to the discussion:

As per the Gwadar port website, it has 3 berths at present with a plan to add 3 more (a multipurpose, a grain, and an oil berth). Its projected draught is 12.5 metres with which it claims it will be able to handle 50,000 DWT (Dead Weight Tonnes, which denotes carrying capacity) vessels.

Chabahar has 10 berths already, and is expanding to include a deep water berth which would be able to handle VLCCs (Very Large Crude Carriers) of 22 m draught or more.

Comparison with Chabahar is not even warranted, as Chabahar is coming up as a transit port for all of Central Asia and Afghanistan. Muhammad Daim Fazil posits it as a port for India to access Afghanistan and Central Asia through Afghanistan. Only if he had looked at maps.

The route to Central Asia from Chabahar doesn’t have to go through Afghanistan at all. Moreover, it gives India an alternative route to Russia and the republics to its east, as well as to the 5 ex-Soviet nations. After Ukraine became independent, Odessa has come to be used less and less. Crossing the Suez has its own costs. So, the Iranian north-south corridor would be very useful for India and most south-east Asian countries.

CPEC in question:

From whatever sketchy information is available, it looks like a combination of loans for road and rail infra, and power plants to be built by the Chinese for which Pakistan has given a sovereign guarantee to buy all the power produced at a fantastic rate of PKR 18 per unit (INR equivalent 11.53). Even the power plants which are going to be all thermal variety are going to be put up at a minimum of $2 billion per GW (1 GW=1000 MW).

India routinely builds its thermal power plants at less than $ 1 billion per GW. The average rate per unit on the India power trading exchange has been INR 2.50 for over a year. Bangladesh is buying 1100 MW from India at INR 6 per unit. This is a classical colony-making exercise by China, which Pakistan establishment and the Army is quite excited with.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Gwadar could only handle 30k DWT ships until a few years ago.

And ports are built for decades of use, a few months head start is insignificant, especially when Iran is considerably richer than Pak while also being a major oil and gas exporter.



India has a significant upper hand when it comes to minerals in Afghanistan. US controls Af and India is much closer to the new govt than China or Pak. And the tripartite agreement for Chabahar is going to directly help that.

Gawadar wasnt even a port few years ago, only a small fishermen village at best. We are not talking about the infra here, we are talking about the natural barriers created by mother nature. Gawadar is a deep sea port, Chabahar is NOT. End of discussion?

Chinese have already got mining rights inside Afghanistan. Pakistan is also utilizing the Afghan minerals like raw marbles. What are you the India exploiting from Afghanistan as we speak? Pak/China are already there being neighbor of Afghanistan. Its a Indian pipe dream to be honest but this tri-nation agreement in all honestly got nothing to do with trade but its a security arrangement where Iran will be used to somehow sustain Indian presence inside Afghanistan.

 

[hawksway4]

India has become such a Big Economy that they are investing in Iran, making dams in Afghanistan, sent military hardware gifts to Afghanistan, ,They have navy in Oman, They have sidelined Pakistan from SriLanka and even an JF17 deal.

Things are all bad in that way. They have taken away F16 deal through lobbying in USA. Now USA is all hand in hand with them.

Best thing is MODI is visiting Qatar, UAE, KSA, Iran and making deals with them. But Pak is stuck as it cant choose between KSA or Iran.

Even though its in form of Loan but Pakistan must take Gwadar and CPEC as do or die. Throw our heads down in dedication and dont look around until this project becomes a fruitful tree.
Cuz economy is not just the backbone but everything else too.

 

[BABA AGHORI]

Chahabar is good for Gwadar --- all larger vessels requiring a deep sea port will have to use Gwadar. Chahabar is not a deep sea port --- this has been Gwadar's main "selling point" and it remains to this day. And you're stuck on cheap fuel.

Though Gwadar is a natural deep sea port, It has an advantage, with equipment available rite now it is not difficult to make chabahar a deep sea port. And everyone including China started realizing that what ROI Chabahar has. I hope all the dredging required would be completed in coming 2 years.

 

[noksss]

Fact is after Initial show off and modi G chest–thumping, Indian and Iranians are now starting to realize that there is no match between Gwadar and Chabahar in capacity and investment, so they are now calling it complementary, sister and all sort of friendly names to save themselves from any future embarrassment.

Future embarrassment is India got access to Central Asia bypassing Pakistan

Develop road link between Chabahar & Gwadar , allow every country vessel to dock Gwadar except Indian. Link Afghanistan with CPEC also since FATA will be soon linking in this project.
Develop Naval base in Jwani (72km from Chabahar).
Deploy Zarb missile batteries and keep Chabahar as well as Gulf of Oman + strait of Hormuz under check ..........

Make sure you deploy rechargeable batteries

 

[Genghis khan1]

Future embarrassment is India got access to Central Asia bypassing Pakistan

You are ejacualting prematurely, First let modi release $$ for the port to be build, than road network. As far as we know, it been all talk and no walk from India for last 2 years.

with equipment available rite now it is not difficult to make chabahar a deep sea port.

Really, ... and what's your plan, diggin sea floor. It cost $500,000/hr oil rig rent just to dig a hole in sea floor. You think you can dig seafloor... Are you putting India on sale or what??

 

[noksss]

You are ejacualting prematurely, First let modi release $$ for the port to be build, than road network. As far as we know, it been all talk and no walk from India for last 2 years.

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa right

That's because of the Sanction on Iran even oil dues of many years are paid just now

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-ahead-of-Modi-visit/articleshow/52377116.cms

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-iran-oil-payments-idUSKCN0YC09O

So releasing money for the port will be a matter of time

 

[Genghis khan1]

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa right

That's because of the Sanction on Iran even oil dues of many years are paid just now

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-ahead-of-Modi-visit/articleshow/52377116.cms

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-iran-oil-payments-idUSKCN0YC09O

So releasing money for the port will be a matter of time

Long way to go, at this pace it will be lifetime. Port is not economically viable. Road network is almost non existent. Afghanistan is unstable. Best of luck.

 

[noksss]

Long way to go, at this pace it will be lifetime. Port is not economically viable. Road network is almost non existent. Afghanistan is unstable. Best of luck.

 

[BABA AGHORI]

Really, ... and what's your plan, diggin sea floor. It cost $500,000/hr oil rig rent just to dig a hole in sea floor. You think you can dig seafloor... Are you putting India on sale or what??

What u think a deep sea port is ... 100km deep ? Gawadar is dredged to 12.5m or 30+feet, so it was made a deep-sea port... coz you couldn't afford it and u askd China to do petty task for you.. doesn't mean India can not afford it either.

And from where this amazing oil rig came into picture .?

 

[Hutchroy]

What u think a deep sea port is ... 100km deep ? Gawadar is dredged to 12.5m or 30+feet, so it was made a deep-sea port... coz you couldn't afford it and u askd China to do petty task for you.. doesn't mean India can not afford it either.

And from where this amazing oil rig came into picture .?

Sir, One Metre is equal to 3.2808 Feet. Thus 12.5 Metres is Equal to Forty One Feet.

Really, ... and what's your plan, diggin sea floor. It cost $500,000/hr oil rig rent just to dig a hole in sea floor. You think you can dig seafloor... Are you putting India on sale or what??

You don't use an Oil Rig to deepen a designated Area of a Port. You would use a Dredger.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Sir, One Metre is equal to 3.2808 Feet. Thus 12.5 Metres is Equal to Forty One Feet.



You don't use an Oil Rig to deepen a designated Area of a Port. You would use a Dredger.

And from where this amazing oil rig came into picture .?

Just trying to give you an idea how much subsea/offshore operation cost. It's not like digging up mud in your back yard.

 

[BABA AGHORI]

Just trying to give you an idea how much subsea/offshore operation cost. It's not like digging up mud in your back yard.

ooooOOOOO so a oil rig and a dregger has a connection .. m glad you know a subsea/offshore operations... any idea about a difference between dredging & oil explorations and cost estimations ?

 

[Genghis khan1]

ooooOOOOO so a oil rig and a dregger has a connection .. m glad you know a subsea/offshore operations... any idea about a difference between dredging & oil explorations and cost estimations ?

You are a special kind, aren't you... Let me break it down for your little Indian brain.
It cost US $1.6 billion dollar to dredge New York harbor from 45 feet to 50 feet. That's $1.6 Billion for just 5 ft.
Gwadar was way deeper to any port in the region to begin with. Chabhar is no where close to 48-50 ft (Phase -II) that of Gwadar .
Now you are telling me that Indian where 600 million people still defecate in open, will spend several Billion dollars to dredge a foreign port whose current total pledge budget (only talk no walk) is $500 million, infrastructure included . On top port has low to no economic viability .

 

[BABA AGHORI]

You are a special kind, aren't you... Let me break it down for your little Indian brain.
It cost US $1.6 billion dollar to dredge New York harbor from 45 feet to 50 feet. That's $1.6 Billion for just 5 ft.
Gwadar was way deeper to any port in the region to begin with. Chabhar is no where close to 48-50 ft (Phase -II) that of Gwadar .
Now you are telling me that Indian where 600 million people still defecate in open, will spend several Billion dollars to dredge a foreign port whose current total pledge budget (only talk no walk) is $500 million, infrastructure included . On top port has low to no economic viability .

Question asked - any idea about a difference between dredging & oil explorations and cost estimations
---
Answer : Difference between Dredging and Oil explorations - Nil batta sifar...
: Cost estimation between Dredging and Oil explorations -
Answer - NewYork Harbor cost + 600 million people defecate in open + economic viability (Don't worry on it.. Short, Dark Baniya knowz it better than you)..


Man Rozza(if fasting) and Heat is taking a big toll on you.. take rest