Iran’s Chabahar won’t vie with Pakistan’s Gwadar: Experts

[Arsalan]

Can you give me examples of high speed freight corridors that have been built and are in use? As far as I know, HSR for passengers isn't that profitable, I don't know if it'll be cost effective for freight.



Umm no. Most, even you, bring forth "knowledge" of CPEC from our newspapers and love to play critic, thinking you've brought forward some unseen information, while Pakistanis here see that as unconstructive trolling. CPEC isn't something new, it was initiated in 2006 - let the experts figure it out because no Pakistani here gives a flying f*ck about what some random Indian has to say.


CPEC is a $50 Billion project - I'm sure that the relevant people have a plan in place when India plays that card. Meanwhile, don't lose sleep over it.




No, i've only mentioned benefits of CPEC to China because that's what we were talking about vis a vis Global trade. See, you're all over the place. Stick to one thing. CPEC benefits to Pakistan are numerous. Infra upgrade and expansion, energy projects, set up of economic zones in more backward areas - all are industry triggers which have to potential to revitalize the economy.


Being built - KKH upgrade underway, motorways being built, trucking companies witnessing an increased trend in truck purchases. Go through the CPEC pictures thread.




You answered that yourself - 2030 remember? Feasibility studies have been conducted already? I'm pretty sure in the attempt to bring inane arguments forward, you've already licked the wikipedia page on CPEC clean.


Good! You have homework to do! Now run along and find the answers.



Not just roads being built - Rail is being upgraded - oil pipepline feasibility being done. Don't hurt your little head over these issues. I may not have the answers (because frankly i don't really give a shit about your questions to begin to dig deeper), but it's cute to see that to assuage your ego after all your previous questions have been satisfactorily answered, you've begun to get anal about small things (and let's be honest, you're just regurgitating the questions more informed people have already asked). Quit being a smartass.

@Arsalan could you deal with this troll.

You have made you point as best as you could made it, I tried with this debate as well but as i concluded, a decision had been made, a conclusion have been drawn and all this debate and discussion is just to prove that the conclusion drawn is the right one. How constructive you think such a debate can be?

Still, what @randomradio have to say is his point of view and not matter is it have some substance or not, he is entitles to that. The best that you and me could have done was to present all the facts and explain our point. That we have. Now let the people and time decide how things pan out. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever he thinks is right.

 

[randomradio]

You are a special kind, aren't you... Let me break it down for your little Indian brain.
It cost US $1.6 billion dollar to dredge New York harbor from 45 feet to 50 feet. That's $1.6 Billion for just 5 ft.
Gwadar was way deeper to any port in the region to begin with. Chabhar is no where close to 48-50 ft (Phase -II) that of Gwadar .
Now you are telling me that Indian where 600 million people still defecate in open, will spend several Billion dollars to dredge a foreign port whose current total pledge budget (only talk no walk) is $500 million, infrastructure included . On top port has low to no economic viability .

Tut, tut.

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/p...s-contract-to-deepen-Mumbai-port-channel.html

“The Rs380-crore, two-year contract was given to Jaisu Shipping on 1 April,”

Jaisu Shipping, owned by the Kewalramani family and based out of Kandla, Gujarat, will have to deepen the water channel that will lead to the terminal from its existing 4m to 16.5m.

That's over 40 feet for a cost of $84M in 2009 dollars.

Then there's these projects.
http://www.newsonprojects.com/story.asp?news_code=13760

Kakinada Deep Water Port is all set to invest Rs 650 crore over the next two years for deepening the entrance channel upto the depth of 16 metre from the current 14 metre, stated its chairman KV Rao.

650 crores today is $96M.

You have made you point as best as you could made it, I tried with this debate as well but as i concluded, a decision had been made, a conclusion have been drawn and all this debate and discussion is just to prove that the conclusion drawn is the right one. How constructive you think such a debate can be?

Still, what @randomradio have to say is his point of view and not matter is it have some substance or not, he is entitles to that. The best that you and me could have done was to present all the facts and explain our point. That we have. Now let the people and time decide how things pan out. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever he thinks is right.

Unlike Gwadar, Chabahar has been in use since 1970. It's a large port with 10 berths. Gwadar has barely 3 operational today and that will rise to 6.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/col...ty-in-Iran-Port/2014/06/03/article2259689.ece

Chabahar Port has good growth potential. It is functional and is already handling 2 million tonnes (MT) of cargo every year. On completion of the three proposed phases of development, the port will have the capacity to handle 82MT of cargo per year by 2020.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1083410/gwadar-port-to-be-operational-by-2017-chinese-official/

Gwadar port, on Pakistan’s southwest coast, will see roughly one million tonnes of cargo going through it by 2017, said Zhang Baozhong, chairman of the Chinese public company in charge of the development.

Current trade there is “basically nothing”, he told reporters on the sidelines of a seminar about the port’s development Tuesday.

There really is no comparison.

 

[MULUBJA]

Any transportation from Dubai via gwadar to china will cost about 28 times higher than the sea route. So Gwadar is not viable. They real deal is chhabhar as it will be the most cost effective route of transportation inspite of having strategic importance.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Question asked - any idea about a difference between dredging & oil explorations and cost estimations
---
Answer : Difference between Dredging and Oil explorations - Nil batta sifar...
: Cost estimation between Dredging and Oil explorations -
Answer - NewYork Harbor cost + 600 million people defecate in open + economic viability (Don't worry on it.. Short, Dark Baniya knowz it better than you)..


Man Rozza(if fasting) and Heat is taking a big toll on you.. take rest

$1.6 billion dollar to dredge 5 ft New York harbor. FACT
Gwadar was way deeper to any port in the region. FACT
600 million people still defecate in open. FACT
Chabar total pledge budget (only talk no walk) is just $500 million. FACT
Port has low to no economic viability. FACT
You are asking irrelevant stuff and posting BS retarded replies because you are totally out of argument and got owned. FACT

Any transportation from Dubai via gwadar to china will cost about 28 times higher than the sea route. So Gwadar is not viable. They real deal is chhabhar as it will be the most cost effective route of transportation inspite of having strategic importance.

 

[BABA AGHORI]

$1.6 billion dollar to dredge 5 ft New York harbor. FACT
Gwadar was way deeper to any port in the region. FACT
600 million people still defecate in open. FACT
Chabar total pledge budget (only talk no walk) is just $500 million. FACT
Port has low to no economic viability. FACT
You are asking irrelevant stuff and posting BS retarded replies because you are totally out of argument and got owned. FACT

$1.6 billion dollar to dredge 5 ft New York harbor.
Out of Context - Question was on the difference between dredging and Oil explorations and cost estimation.
Gwadar was way deeper to any port in the region.
Out of Context - Question was on the difference between dredging and Oil explorations and cost estimation.
Chabar total pledge budget (only talk no walk) is just $500 million.
Out of Context - Question was on the difference between dredging and Oil explorations and cost estimation.
Port has low to no economic viability.
Out of Context - Question was on the difference between dredging and Oil explorations and cost estimation.

You are asking irrelevant stuff and posting BS retarded replies because you are totally out of argument and got owned. Introspect.

 

[Genghis khan1]

$1.6 billion dollar to dredge 5 ft New York harbor.
Out of Context - Question was on the difference between dredging and Oil explorations and cost estimation.
Gwadar was way deeper to any port in the region.
Out of Context - Question was on the difference between dredging and Oil explorations and cost estimation.
Chabar total pledge budget (only talk no walk) is just $500 million.
Out of Context - Question was on the difference between dredging and Oil explorations and cost estimation.
Port has low to no economic viability.
Out of Context - Question was on the difference between dredging and Oil explorations and cost estimation.

You are asking irrelevant stuff and posting BS retarded replies because you are totally out of argument and got owned. Introspect.

Question is, who the f**k's cares what's your irrelevant -oil estimation- question is. What matter is the viability of dredging chabar and cost to benefit ratio. Fact is India will end up selling half of itself just to make chabahar equivalent to gwadar and fact is hard for your swallow.

 

[randomradio]

Question is, who the f**k's cares what's your irrelevant -oil estimation- question is. What matter is the viability of dredging chabar and cost to benefit ratio. Fact is India will end up selling half of itself just to make chabahar equivalent to gwadar and fact is hard for your swallow.

Wow, man. You're in denial.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Wow, man. You're in denial.

Alright, I want fact and figures. All i hear from Indian's is oh,man this , oh man that... tell me oil estimation... tell me that..

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Exactly, there are so many things at play here. Perhaps this is the reason the argument have changed from:

1. Chabahar is more suitable for Africa-China trade
   
2. It is at least more suitable access to Europe for Africa
3. Not Africa, but it provides better access to Afghanistan for India
4. It is going to replace Suez canal

The ground realities remain that Gwadar, a deep sea port sitting at a strategic locations and being of great interest to both Pakistan and China will, if utilized to its true potential, be way more beneficial for the region compared to Chabahar. Chabahar is surely of great importance to India but that is about it.

What amazes me if that our neighbors do have the never to comment when we talk about CPEC and its potential and call it delusions and boasting, all while trying to prove Chabahar have one advantage or another (switching quite rapidly).

I for one if of the view that no mere port or road will be bring any good, it will be the parties that are involved in the project, not construction but future use that will determine the success of one project. Chabahar and Gwadar wont be on a head on collision course for years to come at least. Plus the clergy in Iran, you never can be sure what it to come. Unth kis karwat bathya,, no one knows!

First I would like to thank you all for very insightful analysis from the Pak side. Indian opposition is understandable for they want Pak, China and many others dead and gone. Even to a novice like me, a grand project of this sort itself is extremely interesting from the engineering point of view. My long association with Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc. colleagues have taught me one thing- they somehow don't believe in shortcuts. If there're 100 alternatives, they wanna try all to have an extensive database, and then come to a decision. You can very well understand how painful and frustrating and boring it is for the folks like me who are at the receiving end. As for CPEC, I am pretty sure they have discussed all the ins and outs within themselves and with Paks and documented them well. You won't go wrong with CPEC inshaAllah or with any other major projects now. Why? Well, it's from Marifet, which is beyond the scope of this forum. Good luck and fast speed...

 

[Arsalan]

Tut, tut.

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/p...s-contract-to-deepen-Mumbai-port-channel.html


That's over 40 feet for a cost of $84M in 2009 dollars.

Then there's these projects.
http://www.newsonprojects.com/story.asp?news_code=13760


650 crores today is $96M.



Unlike Gwadar, Chabahar has been in use since 1970. It's a large port with 10 berths. Gwadar has barely 3 operational today and that will rise to 6.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/col...ty-in-Iran-Port/2014/06/03/article2259689.ece


http://tribune.com.pk/story/1083410/gwadar-port-to-be-operational-by-2017-chinese-official/


There really is no comparison.

I already have no hope to convincing you dear, i wont give it another shot.
I along with some others here have given enough points for you to work on but as i mentioned, there is nothing any amount of proof can do if the decision or conclusion have already been decided upon. You are entitled to your opinion and point of view dear, have a good day.

 

[randomradio]

Alright, I want fact and figures. All i hear from Indian's is oh,man this , oh man that... tell me oil estimation... tell me that..

I've already posted it here. I've even quoted you.
https://defence.pk/threads/iran’s-c...’s-gwadar-experts.433181/page-10#post-8385277

I already have no hope to convincing you dear, i wont give it another shot.
I along with some others here have given enough points for you to work on but as i mentioned, there is nothing any amount of proof can do if the decision or conclusion have already been decided upon. You are entitled to your opinion and point of view dear, have a good day.

So a port that would at best be about a few million tonnes capacity will be as good as a port that will handle over 50MT a year?

Chabahar is already handling two times the amount of cargo Gwadar is planning to handle a year after it is ready. This is getting ridiculous.