Iranian Navy | News and Discussions

[DoubleYouSee]

Germany built 703 U-boat submarines bigger than Fateh in a period of decade basically 80 years ago. Iran is at 1 after a decade with all the advancement and technology that has happened in 80 years.

Too much pandering and apologists on this board. Iran war machine capability is extremely slow.

It excels in missiles (even that capability has slowed down after Tehrani Moghadam’s death).

Soon you guys will understand what I understand.

They built a u boat less than 10 years,because they attended in a war and had to invest max part of their gdp on their war machine.....why should Iran do like them

 

[TruthHurtz]

Yeah and Iran had millennium experience in developing arms and warfare if you use the Persian Empire as an example. By your logic England and France should be massive military powers yet are former shells of themselves.

This board will make excuses for anything. People act like Iran was created 10 years ago. Iran had imperial Navy while Europe was a bunch of nation states with no power.

Multi-millenia old successes don't translate well to the modern day.

 

[TheImmortal]

Multi-millenia old successes don't translate well to the modern day.

Yeah and building a wooden propellor plane during WWI doesn’t translate to jack**** today. Iran with no aviation experience can build a 4th gen fighter (Kowsar). They didn’t have to start at wooden planes first.

The major world powers (England, France, Germany, Russia, and US) were building massive war machines while China was sitting in rice patties poor as dirt. Yet in half century, China has passed 4 out of 5 world powers and are on track to achieve parity with the US Empire war machine within 15-20 years.

 

[PeeD]

Submarines are a special category.
- Reliability is of greatest importance especially for economic and continuous operation.
- Next to no foreign subsystems will be available to Iran
- AIP is critical technology that is owned by few companies and even Japan just goes to buy AIP tech.
- Automation is key for next generation submarines and requires more subsystems that need to be reliable.
- A cost effective design is key for Irans doctrine

Australia ordered subs in Besat's class from experienced France and will get the first one no sooner 2030.
Same timeline with Sweden and their next generation design.

There is a roadmap for such projects. The Fateh is Irans first serious design and needs to achieve the required reliability levels. When that is achieved, AIP needs to be added to it. Then everything needs to be upscaled for the Besat and novel subsystems like the VLS tested and added.
For ASW proposes for example weaponry such as the IRGC tested RPK-7 rocket launched torpedo needs to be ready, supersonic submarine launched cruise missiles, sub launched LACM.

Its a system of systems and all those subsystems and weapons need to be ready for it

 

[TruthHurtz]

Yeah and building a wooden propellor plane during WWI doesn’t translate to jack**** today. Iran with no aviation experience can build a 4th gen fighter (Kowsar). They didn’t have to start at wooden planes first.

The major world powers (England, France, Germany, Russia, and US) were building massive war machines while China was sitting in rice patties poor as dirt. Yet in half century, China has passed 4 out of 5 world powers and are on track to achieve parity with the US Empire war machine within 15-20 years.

Kowsar isn't a real domestically built jet it's an upgrade derived from pre-existing stockpiles of F-5s.

 

[TheImmortal]

Submarines are a special category.
- Reliability is of greatest importance especially for economic and continuous operation.
- Next to no foreign subsystems will be available to Iran
- AIP is critical technology that is owned by few companies and even Japan just goes to buy AIP tech.
- Automation is key for next generation submarines and requires more subsystems that need to be reliable.
- A cost effective design is key for Irans doctrine

Australia ordered subs in Besat's class from experienced France and will get the first one no sooner 2030.
Same timeline with Sweden and their next generation design.

There is a roadmap for such projects. The Fateh is Irans first serious design and needs to achieve the required reliability levels. When that is achieved, AIP needs to be added to it. Then everything needs to be upscaled for the Besat and novel subsystems like the VLS tested and added.
For ASW proposes for example weaponry such as the IRGC tested RPK-7 rocket launched torpedo needs to be ready, supersonic submarine launched cruise missiles, sub launched LACM.

Its a system of systems and all those subsystems and weapons need to be ready for it

Please do not use the French deal as a barometer of submarine construction. The deal was signed in 2016 and construction isn’t expected till 2023 because of nuances over negotiations of certain things.

This is all you need to know, the US built 41 nuclear power SLBM in 8 years in the 50’s-60’s because of the URGENCY of establishing deterrence against the Soviet Union.

Keyword here is URGENCY people. US, Australia, England, France they have NO URGENCY right now. They are not under imminent threat of war.

Iran is a country that has been under the threat of imminent war since 2008. Yet it’s war machine is moving at pace as if it has secured ultimate deterrence.

If France wanted they could pump out ALL those submarines in 5 years. The issue is funds, overtime, workers, etc.

The world hasn’t seen what a country can build when it puts its mind to it. The closest thing is the EXPLOSION of the Iranian air defense umbrella in 10 years. Go look at what Iran had for air defense in 2009 and look at what It has now. Simply remarkable.

The potential is there, the issue is the urgency there as well. And so far for Iranian Air Force and Iranian Navy the answer has been no.

 

[925boy]

Germany built 703 U-boat submarines bigger than Fateh in a period of decade basically 80 years ago. Iran is at 1 after a decade with all the advancement and technology that has happened in 80 years.

Too much pandering and apologists on this board. Iran war machine capability is extremely slow.

It excels in missiles (even that capability has slowed down after Tehrani Moghadam’s death).

Soon you guys will understand what I understand.

THis argument you make about the German Uboats on the surface looks good, but on deeper inspection, it exposes many holes. First of all, why do you act as though the military technology Germany used back then is the same as now? You're sort of comparing apples and oranges. What sort of guidance and targetting system did those German subs use? And what technology did the Iranian subs use for guidance and targetting? Are the engines the same? How different are they? You're comparing military technologies from 2 different eras and 2 different economic situations, so i feel your comparisons here are invalid bro.

 

[TheImmortal]

THis argument you make about the German Uboats on the surface looks good, but on deeper inspection, it exposes many holes. First of all, why do you act as though the military technology Germany used back then is the same as now? You're sort of comparing apples and oranges. What sort of guidance and targetting system did those German subs use? And what technology did the Iranian subs use for guidance and targetting? Are the engines the same? How different are they? You're comparing military technologies from 2 different eras and 2 different economic situations, so i feel your comparisons here are invalid bro.

are you dense?

I clarified this point several times German U-Boat AT ITS TIME was the most advanced designed and FOR ITS TIME it was expensive and highly technological. Fateh is hardly the most advanced submarine built today in the world. A German U-Boat could travel to Argentina from Europe, the Fateh cannot do that today.

Also by the end of the war, Germany was building the Wonder Weapon Submarine known as Type XXI

So yes Germany was way more advanced and capable 80 years ago than Iran is today. If you gave Nazi scientists the same technology, tools, advanced software, supercomputers that Iran has today they would run circles around Iran. Even if the Nazi scientists had to start at 1940’s knowledge while Iran starts at 2019.

So I won’t be impressed by this. I’m impressed by developments in UAV tech, air defense tech, cruise missile tech, even the ability to incorporate advanced subsystems on Mowj vessels. But not we “hope” to see Besat in 15 years.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Also by the end of the war, Germany was building the Wonder Weapon Submarine known as Type XXI

I don't call Type XXI a wonder weapon it was a rushed out weapon , they made something that could wondrous to something normal because they were in hurry to send them to war front.
and if you give today technology to German scientist of 1940 let me be honest with you , they could not do shit with them because they had no experience using them and implementing them. they could built those subs because they had experience building them . they were the people who designed the technology to build those subs and they very well knew how to implement them . you gave them today technology and they did not knew what to do with them.

Also by the end of the war, Germany was building the Wonder Weapon Submarine known as Type XXI

I don't call Type XXI a wonder weapon it was a rushed out weapon , they made something that could wondrous to something normal because they were in hurry to send them to war front.
and if you give today technology to German scientist of 1940 let me be honest with you , they could not do shit with them because they had no experience using them and implementing them. they could built those subs because they had experience building them . they were the people who designed the technology to build those subs and they very well knew how to implement them . you gave them today technology and they did not knew what to do with them.

 

[PeeD]

We could say that Iran now has 15 or more Ghadir class subs that are effective in the Persian Gulf and especially the straight of Hormuz.

We could say that with the Fateh class Iran now has a new product to become active in the gulf of Oman and northern Indian Ocean (Kilos aside).

A next generation submarine like the Besat would be needed to expand further to the Indian ocean and red sea (favorably littoral areas to benefit from stealthiness and lack of nuclear propulsion).
It would add a new capability of deep CM strikes thousands of kilometers away from Iran.
This is beyond anti shipping and a capability that is in line for a regional superpower that is becoming a transregional superpower.
The next step would be a nuclear submarine of a superpower.

6 Fateh are certain and maybe in 10 years there is a fleet of ~15 Fateh that represent a serious anti shipping obstacle in the north western Indian ocean.

 

[925boy]

are you dense?

I clarified this point several times German U-Boat AT ITS TIME was the most advanced designed and FOR ITS TIME it was expensive and highly technological. Fateh is hardly the most advanced submarine built today in the world. A German U-Boat could travel to Argentina from Europe, the Fateh cannot do that today.

Also by the end of the war, Germany was building the Wonder Weapon Submarine known as Type XXI

So yes Germany was way more advanced and capable 80 years ago than Iran is today. If you gave Nazi scientists the same technology, tools, advanced software, supercomputers that Iran has today they would run circles around Iran. Even if the Nazi scientists had to start at 1940’s knowledge while Iran starts at 2019.

So I won’t be impressed by this. I’m impressed by developments in UAV tech, air defense tech, cruise missile tech, even the ability to incorporate advanced subsystems on Mowj vessels. But not we “hope” to see Besat in 15 years.

You're the one that must be dense, becase WHY TF are you comparing Current Iranian navy to "great old" Germany Navy that was great AT THAT TIME but today is a very DIFFERENT TIME than that time?????? If you say that GErmany was great back then, then why do you have to compare it to modern day Iran in the first place?

Also maybe GErmany placed more emphasis on naval strategy back then than Iran does today???? EITHER WAY, you're making some bogus comparisons. cheers.

 

[TheImmortal]

You're the one that must be dense, becase WHY TF are you comparing Current Iranian navy to "great old" Germany Navy that was great AT THAT TIME but today is a very DIFFERENT TIME than that time?????? If you say that GErmany was great back then, then why do you have to compare it to modern day Iran in the first place?

Also maybe GErmany placed more emphasis on naval strategy back then than Iran does today???? EITHER WAY, you're making some bogus comparisons. cheers.

Listen apparently your mind can not comprehend cross historical technological economic cost comparisons between military powers. No one is comparing Iranian Navy to German Navy.

I am comparing the cost of building a highly technological product in 1940 to the cost of building a technological product in 2019. This is done routinely through economic history and date aggregation hence why the term “adjusted for inflation” exists for data mining.

Dear lord go improve your reading comprehension. But I guess it’s easier to just sit around and say everything is great like Baghdad Bob on here. That wins upvotes from the simpleton. But I am not on here for internet popularity and following crowd opinion.

I praise and I critique when warranted. Not blindly kiss ***. Loyalty lies with the motherland not the military.

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

Listen apparently your mind can not comprehend cross historical technological economic cost comparisons between military powers. No one is comparing Iranian Navy to German Navy.

I am comparing the cost of building a highly technological product in 1940 to the cost of building a technological product in 2019. This is done routinely through economic history and date aggregation hence why the term “adjusted for inflation” exists for data mining.

Dear lord go improve your reading comprehension. But I guess it’s easier to just sit around and say everything is great like Baghdad Bob on here. That wins upvotes from the simpleton. But I am not on here for internet popularity and following crowd opinion.

I praise and I critique when warranted. Not blindly kiss ***. Loyalty lies with the motherland not the military.

But @immortal, do you realize that, in 1940 Germany, all resources were diverted to the war effort and everything else was considered secondary?

Iran today that is sanctioned by the whole world both economically and militarily for over 40 years, it still doesn't have the luxury to divert all of its resources to military expenditure. Recently, some of the fuel subsidies were reduced and we all saw the uprising and how hidden hands took advantage of it. Over several thousand people lost their lives. Imagine Iran diverting all of its resources or roughly 50% of it to military projects. A civil war would unsue (God forbid). I think Iranian policy makers are spending what they can on military while taking care of the population.

I think what you describe would only work if Iran was run like DPRK, where significant resources could be diverted to military projects while the population and the political establishment would still accept the less expenditure on civilian projects.

 

[TruthHurtz]

But @immortal, do you realize that, in 1940 Germany, all resources were diverted to the war effort and everything else was considered secondary?

Iran today that is sanctioned by the whole world both economically and militarily for over 40 years, it still doesn't have the luxury to divert all of its resources to military expenditure. Recently, some of the fuel subsidies were reduced and we all saw the uprising and how hidden hands took advantage of it. Over several thousand people lost their lives. Imagine Iran diverting all of its resources or roughly 50% of it to military projects. A civil war would unsue (God forbid). I think Iranian policy makers are spending what they can on military while taking care of the population.

I think what you describe would only work if Iran was run like DPRK, where significant resources could be diverted to military projects while the population and the political establishment would still accept the less expenditure on civilian projects.

Lol @ believing Reuters/Amnesty casualty claims.

 

[Sineva]

But @immortal, do you realize that, in 1940 Germany, all resources were diverted to the war effort and everything else was considered secondary?

Iran today that is sanctioned by the whole world both economically and militarily for over 40 years, it still doesn't have the luxury to divert all of its resources to military expenditure. Recently, some of the fuel subsidies were reduced and we all saw the uprising and how hidden hands took advantage of it. Over several thousand people lost their lives. Imagine Iran diverting all of its resources or roughly 50% of it to military projects. A civil war would unsue (God forbid). I think Iranian policy makers are spending what they can on military while taking care of the population.

I think what you describe would only work if Iran was run like DPRK, where significant resources could be diverted to military projects while the population and the political establishment would still accept the less expenditure on civilian projects.

Exactly!.
This sort of thing is only possible if you decide to operate your economy on a war time "military first" command type model,just like the ussr or the dprk did/does,which basically means that the military gets FIRST CALL on everything,every resource.Not only do you run the risk of completely bankrupting yourself economically but politically you run the risk of ending up not as a state with an army but as an army with a state.