Iranian Navy | News and Discussions

[TheImmortal]

I would say there are 2 main reasons. 1. The problems with the 1st Fateh clearly caused delays in the construction and clearly caused budgeting problems for the Beesat 2.Leadership and lack of budget.

Rohani has destroyed Iran's space program too. At Iran's level of technology we need to have 3 launches a year (SLV launches & or new booster test) to keep our space program moving forward and improve on our SLV's until we get to a point where we can launch heavy Sat's to GEO orbit and ability to deploy a good number of sat's in a single launch where 1 launch every 1-2 years will be sufficient.

Without a SLCM capability the fateh and Besat are too vulnerable relying on torpedoes. Iran needs to be able to park these in the Indian Ocean and be able to target any ship/land based target within 1000KM! (minimum)

 

[yavar]

Is this the new build Fateh with new structure?

no old one
the new gen looks different, like the caspian sea one

 

[VEVAK]

Is this the new build Fateh with new structure?

Because I think some video-sequences we saw already couple years ago, so some parts of the video are showing definitely the old Fateh which had structure problems.

I somewhere read Fateh will be unveiled at the end of the Iranian year (March 2019?)

Fatteh started it's field testing in March of 2017 it's an active sub basically that's going under 2 years of testing and training which is NORMAL. And it will probably officially Join the Navy on March of 2019 but between now and then Iran can unveil it any time it wants that's a political decision. The sub is ready for combat if need be there is no reason to rush training & testing and the rest is just a political decision.

And the images you see are of field testing!

 

[VEVAK]

Without a SLCM capability the fateh and Besat are too vulnerable relying on torpedoes. Iran needs to be able to park these in the Indian Ocean and be able to target any ship/land based target within 1000KM! (minimum)

No doubt Iran is trying to get to that point but for now how many cruise missiles do you think a 600-1200 tone subs can carry? They aren't +10,000 tone guided missile submarines

A larger Iranian diesel sub will at best be something alone the line of a German Type 209's built between 2000-2008 with at BEST more advanced processing capabilities and software
And for a 1200 ton sub we are looking at a mix of 8-12 torpedo's with 2-4 missiles (likely anti ship with the capability to go after coastal targets and at best they'll have a range of 300km at best 700km against fixed costal targets) and that's just not enough missiles to go after well protected sites like Diego Garcia

And I'm not disagreeing with you Iran most definitely needs a large sub that can sit in the Indian Ocean and fire on land targets 1000km out but we would need a much larger sub that can fire a larger number of missiles to be able to do that but these subs are mainly for hiding, laying mines & firing torpedo's and subs under water are far from being an easy target

 

[skyshadow]

 

[TheImmortal]

No doubt Iran is trying to get to that point but for now how many cruise missiles do you think a 600-1200 tone subs can carry? They aren't +10,000 tone guided missile submarines

A larger Iranian diesel sub will at best be something alone the line of a German Type 209's built between 2000-2008 with at BEST more advanced processing capabilities and software
And for a 1200 ton sub we are looking at a mix of 8-12 torpedo's with 2-4 missiles (likely anti ship with the capability to go after coastal targets and at best they'll have a range of 300km at best 700km against fixed costal targets) and that's just not enough missiles to go after well protected sites like Diego Garcia

And I'm not disagreeing with you Iran most definitely needs a large sub that can sit in the Indian Ocean and fire on land targets 1000km out but we would need a much larger sub that can fire a larger number of missiles to be able to do that but these subs are mainly for hiding, laying mines & firing torpedo's and subs under water are far from being an easy target

An israeli dolphin class submarine could carry 16 SLCMs or torpedos.

Even if the Besat can only carry 12.......8 advanced SLCMs will be a lot more realiable than a sub carrying only torpedos.

Iran’s larger submarine force should solely be focused on sinking any fleet within the Indian Ocean.

Iran needs at the minimum 50 Fateh submarines and 25 Besats.

Deigo Garcia should be left to Iran’s ballistic and long range cruise missile force.

For Iran, a 10,000 ton submarine is at least 20 years away due to lack of nuclear propulsion engines among many other things. At that point you wonder wether smaller Unmanned submarines are more viable.

Iran should seek to acquire 5000-10,000 ton submarines from China or Russia If the political climate ever becomes favorable (unlikely without complete reapproachment with the US).

 

[VEVAK]

An israeli dolphin class submarine could carry 16 SLCMs or torpedos.

Even if the Besat can only carry 12.......8 advanced SLCMs will be a lot more realiable than a sub carrying only torpedos.

Iran’s larger submarine force should solely be focused on sinking any fleet within the Indian Ocean.

Iran needs at the minimum 50 Fateh submarines and 25 Besats.

Deigo Garcia should be left to Iran’s ballistic and long range cruise missile force.

For Iran, a 10,000 ton submarine is at least 20 years away due to lack of nuclear propulsion engines among many other things. At that point you wonder wether smaller Unmanned submarines are more viable.

Iran should seek to acquire 5000-10,000 ton submarines from China or Russia If the political climate ever becomes favorable (unlikely without complete reapproachment with the US).

50 Fatteh! Come one man!

At an absolute max Iran might build 10 Fateh and that's if the tests show it's worth producing that many & 1 or 2 ~1200 ton subs and maybe 1 or 2 Kilo size sub if we're lucky in the next 2 decades and even that would require Iran to build more than 1 sub every other year which is something Iran is not even doing right now!

The cost of production, maintenance and upkeep for that many subs is simply NOT within Iran's budget.

 

[Hack-Hook]

@TheImmortal Traditionally ssubmarines wont go after warship . they usually target support ships and tankers and other form of merchant ships

 

[TheImmortal]

50 Fatteh! Come one man!

At an absolute max Iran might build 10 Fateh and that's if the tests show it's worth producing that many & 1 or 2 ~1200 ton subs and maybe 1 or 2 Kilo size sub if we're lucky in the next 2 decades and even that would require Iran to build more than 1 sub every other year which is something Iran is not even doing right now!

The cost of production, maintenance and upkeep for that many subs is simply NOT within Iran's budget.

Nazi Germany was able to produce many submarines under the toughest war conditions possible!

This is exactly the mindset that prevents Iran from being a global power.

Iran built up to 50 Ghadir subs by 2008 and then magically stopped!

50 Fateh subs over next 30 years is ~2 subs per year. The reason Fateh is expensive is because it is not being developed in a mass production way!

The focus is not on Iran’s Navy! Iran needs big boost to shipbuilding capability!

What do you think is going to happen in war when you have 3 of them (Fateh)? A loss of one destroys 33% of your capability!

Take the Zumwalt Destroyer, only 3 of these highly advanced destroyers were made! Yet no matter how advanced they are no matter how great they could be! Only 3 exist! 3 is a lot easier to destroy than 30!

So if Iran’s wartime stratergy for the next 30 years is to protect and deny the PG and Indian Ocean to its enemies then it needs a SIGNIFICANT submarine force.

@TheImmortal Traditionally ssubmarines wont go after warship . they usually target support ships and tankers and other form of merchant ships

Throw tradition out the window. Tradition doesn’t bring down enemies. In war innovation is what is needed. Iran doesn’t have a advanced surface fleet and probably won’t have one in the next 30 years barring some major breakthrough.

Thus Iran needs advanced submarines with supersonic cruise missile capability that are designed to specifically target Warships. Relying on just land based CM and Fatten-110 antiship variants is a mistake.

 

[scythian500]

Is this the new build Fateh with new structure?

Because I think some video-sequences we saw already couple years ago, so some parts of the video are showing definitely the old Fateh which had structure problems.

I somewhere read Fateh will be unveiled at the end of the Iranian year (March 2019?)

Yes apparently there are two different Submarines in this video. We can see some clear visible differences. The position of Iranian flag, the rubber cover shape and quality, surface radar, depth markings, etc... or maybe it is the very same machine but in different development and testing stages...

 

[Hack-Hook]

Nazi Germany was able to produce many submarines under the toughest war conditions possible!

This is exactly the mindset that prevents Iran from being a global power.

Iran built up to 50 Ghadir subs by 2008 and then magically stopped!

50 Fateh subs over next 30 years is ~2 subs per year. The reason Fateh is expensive is because it is not being developed in a mass production way!

The focus is not on Iran’s Navy! Iran needs big boost to shipbuilding capability!

What do you think is going to happen in war when you have 3 of them (Fateh)? A loss of one destroys 33% of your capability!

Take the Zumwalt Destroyer, only 3 of these highly advanced destroyers were made! Yet no matter how advanced they are no matter how great they could be! Only 3 exist! 3 is a lot easier to destroy than 30!

So if Iran’s wartime stratergy for the next 30 years is to protect and deny the PG and Indian Ocean to its enemies then it needs a SIGNIFICANT submarine force.



Throw tradition out the window. Tradition doesn’t bring down enemies. In war innovation is what is needed. Iran doesn’t have a advanced surface fleet and probably won’t have one in the next 30 years barring some major breakthrough.

Thus Iran needs advanced submarines with supersonic cruise missile capability that are designed to specifically target Warships. Relying on just land based CM and Fatten-110 antiship variants is a mistake.

Using these small submarine with limited ammunition against battlegroups is a sure re cciepe to loose them .

 

[VEVAK]

Nazi Germany was able to produce many submarines under the toughest war conditions possible!

This is exactly the mindset that prevents Iran from being a global power.

Iran built up to 50 Ghadir subs by 2008 and then magically stopped!

50 Fateh subs over next 30 years is ~2 subs per year. The reason Fateh is expensive is because it is not being developed in a mass production way!

The focus is not on Iran’s Navy! Iran needs big boost to shipbuilding capability!

What do you think is going to happen in war when you have 3 of them (Fateh)? A loss of one destroys 33% of your capability!

Take the Zumwalt Destroyer, only 3 of these highly advanced destroyers were made! Yet no matter how advanced they are no matter how great they could be! Only 3 exist! 3 is a lot easier to destroy than 30!

So if Iran’s wartime stratergy for the next 30 years is to protect and deny the PG and Indian Ocean to its enemies then it needs a SIGNIFICANT submarine force.



Throw tradition out the window. Tradition doesn’t bring down enemies. In war innovation is what is needed. Iran doesn’t have a advanced surface fleet and probably won’t have one in the next 30 years barring some major breakthrough.

Thus Iran needs advanced submarines with supersonic cruise missile capability that are designed to specifically target Warships. Relying on just land based CM and Fatten-110 antiship variants is a mistake.

The Nazi were obsessed with conquering the world!!!!

And tools and facilities they built in WW1 and after it allowed them to produce large number of U-Boats and they used slave labor and the entire country was at war and helping the war effort and they stole other countries resources......!
Iran is not in the same conditions! And equipment needed on sub's today are nothing like the ones used in German U-boats

 

[SubWater]

Nazi Germany was able to produce many submarines under the toughest war conditions possible!

This is exactly the mindset that prevents Iran from being a global power.

Iran built up to 50 Ghadir subs by 2008 and then magically stopped!

50 Fateh subs over next 30 years is ~2 subs per year. The reason Fateh is expensive is because it is not being developed in a mass production way!

The focus is not on Iran’s Navy! Iran needs big boost to shipbuilding capability!

What do you think is going to happen in war when you have 3 of them (Fateh)? A loss of one destroys 33% of your capability!

Take the Zumwalt Destroyer, only 3 of these highly advanced destroyers were made! Yet no matter how advanced they are no matter how great they could be! Only 3 exist! 3 is a lot easier to destroy than 30!

So if Iran’s wartime stratergy for the next 30 years is to protect and deny the PG and Indian Ocean to its enemies then it needs a SIGNIFICANT submarine force.



Throw tradition out the window. Tradition doesn’t bring down enemies. In war innovation is what is needed. Iran doesn’t have a advanced surface fleet and probably won’t have one in the next 30 years barring some major breakthrough.

Thus Iran needs advanced submarines with supersonic cruise missile capability that are designed to specifically target Warships. Relying on just land based CM and Fatten-110 antiship variants is a mistake.

Where do u get your numbers ????
Iran at best would build less than 10 Fateh class sub and 3 or 4 Besa't class submarine in next 20 yrs. we do not have any will to build subs more than 1500 ton in near future.
your plan can bankrupt Iran navy.

I think at the moment we have enough ability to build at least on Fateh class sub per year.

 

[yavar]

 

[TheImmortal]

Using these small submarine with limited ammunition against battlegroups is a sure re cciepe to loose them .

Not if they are equipped with long range SLCM. If it can safely engage a battle group from 200-300 KM, even if the battle group pinpoints its exact location of fire. By the time another submarine or a sub hunter aircraft arrives the sub will be long gone.

The ghadirs and some fatehs would keep the PG clear for submarines like Fateh, Besat, and Russian kilos to return to refuel and resupply. Besat and Russian kilos main job will be to keep Indian Ocean clear so battle groups have to launch air strikes from further away.

It would be a two stage area denial tactic.

One thing you must realize is, the US Navy doesn’t have experience hunting small diesel submarines. They are trained to hunt Russian and chinese behemoth nuclear submarines.