Iranian military engine development news and updates

[Blue In Green]

Good post, and I do agree with your analysis. Perhaps with the incremental exception of a few details, which do not affect your conclusions. Now I haven't read subsequent posts in detail yet, including EvilWestener's comprehensive reply, so some of what I will now write might turn out to be redundant - forgive me if this is the case.



About the missile farms: I'm asking myself why should Iran configure its buried container-based BM launchers in large clusters to start with? If a minimum distance of 500 meters or more is kept between each buried container, and if there are many thousands of these (plus ten times that amount of decoys), then even nuclear devices will not be of any help to the aggressor. Also I don't know to what extent nuclear weapons other than dedicated nuclear-tipped bunker busters cause damage underground.

As for which stage of a hypothetical conflict I was contemplating, essentially the opening stage, yes. My reflection is mostly centered on what's needed for Iran to effectively deter any and all realistic possibility of a major aggression by her enemies.



(Much) greater distance to fly = more fuel needed thus potentially decreased weapons payload, smaller sortie rates, increased financial mission costs etc. They cannot easily replicate the same type of a massive operation out of Diego Garcia and/or aircraft carriers stationed afar.



This is where I would - respectfully - differ most, if I may.

Like I wrote in the Chill Thread, it wouldn't be surprising nor a stretch by any means if Iran possessed 20.000, 50.000 or even 80.000 operational ballistic missiles.

Why? Because afterall, these are being produced since around 1987, that is nearly 34 years now... And ever since, Iran's official yearly defence budget has revolved at around 10 to 15 billion USD. I don't know what percentage of this has gone to procurement of new weaponry, but in EU countries, the figure in 2019 stood at some 23%, while it reached no less than 29% in the USA. India dedicated nearly 28% of its 2020 defence budget to fresh additions.

So even if we suppose Iran channeled only 10% of its military spending towards producing or purchasing additional arms, that's more than a billion USD on average per year since 1987. We know how little Iran bought from foreign suppliers. And we know that the bulk of Iran's defence investments first and foremost went into ballistic missiles, followed by air defence and UAV's (both R&D, setting up of mass-production facilities and bases, and manufacturing of missiles).

At no more than some 200.000 USD - let's take a more conservative estimate and assume it's 300.000 USD per missile, even a mere 300 million USD spent each year on these weapons, would have given Iran one thousand missiles per year. Multiply this by 34 and you're beginning to get the picture (we arrive at a total of 34.000 ballistic missiles already!)...

Notice that this is without counting in other sources of revenue that the IRGC might have partly used to fund missile production, such as possible profits stemming from its economic activities.

So once again, we must logically conclude that Iran's BM arsenal is so massive that there are strictly no worries to have as to Iran's overwhelming deterrence power against a major attack, including against an impressive force such as the US plus its entire host of both western and regional allies.

The "estimates" of Iranian BM numbers announced by US authorities in public represent nothing more than propaganda and psy-ops, aimed not only at Iranian audiences but also and mostly at their own, including their armed forces personnel, who, should they learn the real extent of Iran's deadly missile arsenal, would see their morale take a serious hit in any contingency scenario in which a large scale war against Iran should actually break out.



Hundreds of missile bases I don't know, but tens there definitely are.

As for (tens of) thousands of TEL's along with a reliable fueling system, it sounds completely feasible to me. Wouldn't you say?

About the missile farms: I'm asking myself why should Iran configure its buried container-based BM launchers in large clusters to start with? If a minimum distance of 500 meters or more is kept between each buried container, and if there are many thousands of these (plus ten times that amount of decoys), then even nuclear devices will not be of any help to the aggressor. Also I don't know to what extent nuclear weapons other than dedicated nuclear-tipped bunker busters cause damage underground.

I'm not personally convinced that Iran will have or will be employing 1,000s of these static underground container launched BMs per missile-farm, maybe 1,000s overall (total launcher count between all farms) but each missile farm will probably consist of 100s (idk about this as well) in number and that would be a mix of decoys, real missiles and spread out just as you said. The importance of striking such suspected sights, even with low efficacy, is quite crucial since these static underground launchers are meant to be launched in a tactical manner against time crucial targets (?) in real time, essentially whilst the shooting is going on actively. Where as the larger missile bases that fire off Ghadrs, Shahabs, Khoramshahrs, Seijils, EMAD etc, are more for strategic objectives. In this regard the Americans would have bite the bullet and lob what they would deem to be the necessary amount of low-yield nukes to pacify this threat as it can and will destroy their immediate ability to retaliate. Basically I'm assuming the missiles farms purpose is to attack nearby air-fields, stations and other adjunct facilities the opponent uses to support their minute-by-minute operations. Such

As for which stage of a hypothetical conflict I was contemplating, essentially the opening stage, yes. My reflection is mostly centered on what's needed for Iran to effectively deter any and all realistic possibility of a major aggression by her enemies.

As it stands currently, Iran has effectively deterred any aggressor from launching sweeping air-strikes against Iranian soil. So, I don't think we need to worry about Iran being subjected to a military campaign of any sort for now although things can change and times are changing.

Israel is becoming alarmingly frantic and is finding itself more and more boxed in without much breathing room. Both Iran's nuclear, missile and regional footprint presents an existential threat to them and it must be pacified (no matter what). Regardless of what we say or do, the larger war between Iran and Israel proper is going to start sooner rather than later.

(Much) greater distance to fly = more fuel needed thus potentially decreased weapons payload, smaller sortie rates, increased financial mission costs etc. They cannot easily replicate the same type of a massive operation out of Diego Garcia and/or aircraft carriers stationed afar.

Agreed, once America (and Co.) regional war conducting capacity is hindered they will have to rely on assets stationed thousands of miles (or just further) away to conduct operations that severely reduces their sortie rate and ability to get at time-crucial targets. If Iran can manage to destroy the larger regional military bases, then their TEL fleet should be able to move-scoot-fire and get away without much worry of reprisal since the air-bases that would normally be flying F15s, F16s, F22s etc... would be defunct and the assets coming in from far away wouldn't reach them in time before they moved. At-least I think this is the case, please feel free to add or correct me.

Still, Diego Garcia can accommodate America's most powerful air-borne platforms. The B52, B2 B-1 lancers and these can carry massive amounts of stand-off munitions that can fire at Iran from range. It's still a massive threat to Iranian military operations no matter how one cuts it.

This is where I would - respectfully - differ most, if I may.

Like I wrote in the Chill Thread, it wouldn't be surprising nor a stretch by any means if Iran possessed 20.000, 50.000 or even 80.000 operational ballistic missiles.

I don't really have much of an argument against this position believe it not, if this is indeed the case then I'm all for it lol. I know we'll never find out how many Iran has, so I think we just have to confide in our assumptions about the total count thus far.

The "estimates" of Iranian BM numbers announced by US authorities in public represent nothing more than propaganda and psy-ops, aimed not only at Iranian audiences but also and mostly at their own, including their armed forces personnel, who, should they learn the real extent of Iran's deadly missile arsenal, would see their morale take a serious hit in any contingency scenario in which a large scale war against Iran should actually break out.

The woeful efforts of the West to portray Iran as weak are simply dangerous in the worst way possible.... God forbid a war starts and Iran just start laying absolute waste to region. They'd be caught with their pants down with angry populace asking "WTF happened? I thought you said they were weak and only hand a handful of missiles?!".

Fully agreed Salar, this is something many must come to understand. Iran's military might is not to be taken as a joke whatsoever but nevertheless, they still act as if Iran can be conquered within the fortnight.

As for (tens of) thousands of TEL's along with a reliable fueling system, it sounds completely feasible to me. Wouldn't you say?

I would agree with this as well, although the exact number alludes me but it's definitely in the thousands (in total).

Thank you very much for the discussion! and thank you to everyone else as well!!

Much appreciated as always!!

 

[jauk]

Thank you Jauk for your kind words. I have so much respect for most of the wonderful people here in Iran section of this forum.

What do I mean with "...the RESULTS will force U.S. to end it fast, ..." ?

U.S. is in a position of a super power, and currently the most economically powerful super power that controls the entire global structure in ways that really count. Hence why they manage to make sanctions against Iran work, even with Iranian so-called friends.

U.S. State Dept and also Pentagon, have many strategists and they think 10 steps ahead. In their conclusion, Iran is a very significant country, it has people that have a lot of pride in their country and their nationalism, huge population, huge resources, and it is a country that fought Roman Empire (Persian Roman wars), for about 700 years. Millions poured into the streets for General Sulleimani funeral. U.S. recognizes Iran's real strength and would like to be friends with Iran one day, although if you read Balfour Doctrine which was the British & French attempt to please the Jews in U.S. to get the U.S. to join the war against the Axis of WW1 or in particular the Ottoman Empire, it becomes quite apparent that Jews/zionists in U.S. truly control U.S. foreign policies unproportionally, compared to others. Just look back and tell me how many U.S. sectretary of States were Jewish or zionist in the last 75 years: Shultz, Albright, Blinken, ... etc.

Jews control U.S. foreign policies for decades now.

If U.S. gets entangled into a war with Iran, it will need a way OUT, quickly, as in the case of 1988, or with Iran's shooting down the U.S. drone.

U.S. does not want and ongoing war with Iran. Iran is at a point where it can hurt U.S. global control and economic structure serving it.

Additionally, U.S. does not want to tangle with a country that will fight it for decades, and it knows Iran is a fighter, not a quitter like SA or Libya. Iran also has lots of allies. It has also proven that it can use drones/UAV and BM to completely destroy SA/UAE. These are not outcomes that U.S. would want.

If Iran can damage enough of the global economic growth, U.S. would want Iran to have a way out as quickly as possible and end the conflict. They are also weary that Iran CAN BUILD a nuclear weapon if pushed.

A formidable RESULT in the first few days of a conflict with U,S., and it will want a QUICK end to conflict with Iran.


Excellent point.

This is very true. U.S. paid $5m consulting fee to Sweden to help it plan a strategic defence against Iran's subs in shallow water in 2003. Sweden is one of the best sub strategists for naval warfare in the world. U.S. is very concerned with Iran's shallow water subs.

Understood and many thanks. I'd like to point out that with current much lower bars to going to war the bar has also substantially dropped in using nuclear weapons as a practical means of imposing your will. I strongly believe if the US is pushed into a corner it will seriously consider use of these types as an effective battlefield tactic. I believe any strategy the IRI carries out must seriously consider this possibility.

 

[Amin Bactria]

Given that Iran has made impressive achievements in the field of engine development in aerospace, marine and others sector, I think a dedicated thread should be in order.

Let me start by first saying by the orders of Iranian leader, a company dedicated solely for the design and manufacture of engines had been established and now we are starting to see results. So please use this thread to post about development in this area.

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Below are some pictures taken from an exhibition last week in August 21st 2016.

this page started with rouhanis ugly face on it so no suprise that it went nowhere in the last 8 years and the only thing one can say about these treasonous greencard officials is "atleast they didnt crash this one as they did the car industry or blow it up as they did irans space agency or cement it as they did irans nuclear reactor or sell it out as they did irans most important seaport etc pp" we can be soo glad that they stalled us for 8 years in this industry

 

[Hack-Hook]

this page started with rouhanis ugly face on it so no suprise that it went nowhere in the last 8 years and the only thing one can say about these treasonous greencard officials is "atleast they didnt crash this one as they did the car industry or blow it up as they did irans space agency or cement it as they did irans nuclear reactor or sell it out as they did irans most important seaport etc pp" we can be soo glad that they stalled us for 8 years in this industry

We will see in 4 years.

 

[Amin Bactria]

a

We will see in 4 years.

revolutionaries bring merit to the discussion always merit so just look at the history and everything revolutionaries touched turned into a success for iran during a 40 years mess of factionalism they are the only ones with merit btw irans history teaches us that factionalism inside iran only creates poison brewing backstabbing snakes to be all over the place and it renders iran always throughout our history utterly useless and defenseless in many times aswell

 

[Hack-Hook]

a

revolutionaries bring merit to the discussion always merit so just look at the history and everything revolutionaries touched turned into a success for iran during a 40 years mess of factionalism they are the only ones with merit btw irans history teaches us that factionalism inside iran only creates poison brewing backstabbing snakes to be all over the place and it renders iran always throughout our history utterly useless and defenseless in many times aswell

In 4 years

 

[PeeD]

Turbine stator production, and thats not even single crystal, just one of several turbine stages and the second stage not the more critical first stage.

Just to put the difficulty into perspective

 

[EvilWesteners]

Turbine stator production, and thats not even single crystal, just one of several turbine stages and the second stage not the more critical first stage.

Just to put the difficulty into perspective

Great post PeeD. Brings back memories.

Couple of points, which I am sure no one there would think that I am ruffling feathers.

There are Iranians (actually somewhat young) that work there. There is an amazing young Iranian in Chemical Composition, and another in stage monitoring IT tools, and there are others which I do not know them personally, just know of them.

PeeD is correct about the difficulty, but I do want to add a different perspective.

The German and French high level automation that you find in Safran MF, are NOT necessarily NEEDED. They are competing with P&W and a little with GE (kind of a partner), and others (at sub-system level). So this is as much marketing as it is manufacturing. You really don't NEED all this to make these components, and it can be done with a lot LESS cost, less automation, less optimization, less fancy equipment and robotics. These same components were made in 1968 by U.S. when there were virtually not a single computer in a manufacturing plant, let alone robotics or manufacturing process engineering. People working there, in fact, use to die of chemical poisoning and no one was ever bothered by it.

But from marketing point of view Safran is really trying to kick *** and beat P&W, so every time you go to their MF you will see 'tours' of Chinese, Dutch, and Australian investors and co-producers, walking around being shown how advanced their MF is. Safran is also working with GE on a new apparently high-efficiency engine to compete against P&W and got India to get involved with cost reduction for parts of LEAP. So lots of "marketing" going on here. Jean-Paul has done a great job bringing "marketing American style" to Safran which use to be an "engineering with arrogance style". There are about 70k people working there, and based on external surveys, they have never been happier (context: French people are particularly unhappy with working, any kind of working). Of course, they have hundreds of locations, and hence 25+ countries (I think may be more now), where they have manufacturing facilities (MF), or distribution, training, support, marketing, etc. So they are quite "international" now.

But all this brings back memories. Thank you PeeD for the post.

 

[PeeD]

Great post PeeD. Brings back memories.

Couple of points, which I am sure no one there would think that I am ruffling feathers.

There are Iranians (actually somewhat young) that work there. There is an amazing young Iranian in Chemical Composition, and another in stage monitoring IT tools, and there are others which I do not know them personally, just know of them.

PeeD is correct about the difficulty, but I do want to add a different perspective.

The German and French high level automation that you find in Safran MF, are NOT necessarily NEEDED. They are competing with P&W and a little with GE (kind of a partner), and others (at sub-system level). So this is as much marketing as it is manufacturing. You really don't NEED all this to make these components, and it can be done with a lot LESS cost, less automation, less optimization, less fancy equipment and robotics. These same components were made in 1968 by U.S. when there were virtually not a single computer in a manufacturing plant, let alone robotics or manufacturing process engineering. People working there, in fact, use to die of chemical poisoning and no one was ever bothered by it.

But from marketing point of view Safran is really trying to kick *** and beat P&W, so every time you go to their MF you will see 'tours' of Chinese, Dutch, and Australian investors and co-producers, walking around being shown how advanced their MF is. Safran is also working with GE on a new apparently high-efficiency engine to compete against P&W and got India to get involved with cost reduction for parts of LEAP. So lots of "marketing" going on here. Jean-Paul has done a great job bringing "marketing American style" to Safran which use to be an "engineering with arrogance style". There are about 70k people working there, and based on external surveys, they have never been happier (context: French people are particularly unhappy with working, any kind of working). Of course, they have hundreds of locations, and hence 25+ countries (I think may be more now), where they have manufacturing facilities (MF), or distribution, training, support, marketing, etc. So they are quite "international" now.

But all this brings back memories. Thank you PeeD for the post.

Yes, no need for that high level of automation and robotics.
As you said, the have to compete commercially with P&W.

Great post

 

[PeeD]

@EvilWesteners

I would like to hear your opinion on the JT8D core for re-engineing F-4 and F-14 fleet.
Its a rather simple turbofan for which Iran already builds all important parts, including hot ones.

Volvo RM8 of Saab 37 is also based on it, but in that version it would be probably to heavy for the F-4.
But its simple, old school core could be used for a engine for both, F-4 and -14.

The turbofan would allow for fuel efficient cruise and transits.

The only problem is that such a deep modification is probably outside Irans current capabilities (copy level)

 

[Hack-Hook]

@EvilWesteners

I would like to hear your opinion on the JT8D core for re-engineing F-4 and F-14 fleet.
Its a rather simple turbofan for which Iran already builds all important parts, including hot ones.

Volvo RM8 of Saab 37 is also based on it, but in that version it would be probably to heavy for the F-4.
But its simple, old school core could be used for a engine for both, F-4 and -14.

The turbofan would allow for fuel efficient cruise and transits.

The only problem is that such a deep modification is probably outside Irans current capabilities (copy level)

The modified JT8Dwon't be JT8D anymore , wonder which will be easier , design a new engine or try to design a new engine with parts compatible with the parts that remain from the original engine. when Volvo built RM8 they designed a new combustion chamber, they modified Fans and turbines, anew fuel control system was designed and well they designed a new afterburner and a new Fuel system for that afterburner . and this was for AJ-37 Viggen for 5 years latter JA-37 Viggen was introduced which had the role of a fighter, well they had to modify engine farther and add another stage to it and at the end it become a 6.1m long monster
If you ask me it was easier to build a new engine from scratch

 

[PeeD]

The modified JT8Dwon't be JT8D anymore , wonder which will be easier , design a new engine or try to design a new engine with parts compatible with the parts that remain from the original engine. when Volvo built RM8 they designed a new combustion chamber, they modified Fans and turbines, anew fuel control system was designed and well they designed a new afterburner and a new Fuel system for that afterburner . and this was for AJ-37 Viggen for 5 years latter JA-37 Viggen was introduced which had the role of a fighter, well they had to modify engine farther and add another stage to it and at the end it become a 6.1m long monster
If you ask me it was easier to build a new engine from scratch

The idea is to leave the hot section unchanged, alter the cold section and add an afterburner.
Smaller diameter fan, add a fan stage and change compressor stages.

It would need to be a rather low effort project to make sense.
Iran already produced (at least) the cold section of JT8D in 2014/15 and seems to be building the hot section too today.
So they have a working production of its hot section going on, which is the critical part.

RM8 added 2 booster compressor stages with a smaller dia. fan to make it a fighter engine

 

[Hack-Hook]

The idea is to leave the hot section unchanged, alter the cold section and add an afterburner.
Smaller diameter fan, add a fan stage and change compressor stages.

It would need to be a rather low effort project to make sense.
Iran already produced (at least) the cold section of JT8D in 2014/15 and seems to be building the hot section too today.
So they have a working production of its hot section going on, which is the critical part.

RM8 added 2 booster compressor stages with a smaller dia. fan to make it a fighter engine

they built two RM8 one is RM8a for reconnaissance and strike version of the pane they later built RM8b for the fighter version of the viggen with more modification

 

[EvilWesteners]

@EvilWesteners

I would like to hear your opinion on the JT8D core for re-engineing F-4 and F-14 fleet.
Its a rather simple turbofan for which Iran already builds all important parts, including hot ones.

Volvo RM8 of Saab 37 is also based on it, but in that version it would be probably to heavy for the F-4.
But its simple, old school core could be used for a engine for both, F-4 and -14.

The turbofan would allow for fuel efficient cruise and transits.

The only problem is that such a deep modification is probably outside Irans current capabilities (copy level)

Good morning my friend. It's about 6am here in Everett WA. I'm getting ready to go to gym and then off to work, so I'll make it short and quick.

JT8D is well within Iran's capabilities. They know this engine like the back of their hand and even get the few necessary parts, easily, from outside. Can this be used for F4 and/or F14? Yeah, sure. Indeed they can. There have been may be 30 or so variations of this engine, it is well tested, well documented, and still holds its own against everything else that has come out since 1960s after it. In fact some of the most profound technologies (or may be better said, would be innovations and ideas) are still from 1960s. We just are doing it better and smarter and more optimized in the aviation engine industry.

From what I see (and I am almost every week on the phone with someone in Iran), the issues in Iran ... 1) project commitment/funding/management and 2) long term "visionary" planning.

Iran as you said so correctly, can develop this engine and use it and even use it for multiple applications. It is a GREAT engine from the point of view of reliability. Iran has so many workshops right now maintaining, repairing, even modifying this engine and they are very comfortable with it. But the funds for a REAL SERIOUS project to build an aviation propulsion industry in Iran is lacking.

Under Rouhani the decision making process was so absurd that some amazing Iranian engineers went back to Germany. It was heart breaking. The ****ind idiots didn't understand motivation, management, vision, or project planning.

Iranian engineers (and Jewish engineers working all over the world on behalf of Israel), are some of the most motivated engineers you can ever come across. I know Iranians (I am sure you do too), that would work for Iran for free just to see Iran progress. It's a love in our hearts, no matter how long we live outside. Iranians kids born in Bevarely Hills (I was there over the weekend for a funeral) love Iran to death, even though they have never been there. They are disgusted with U.S. and its bullying of Iran. This is tremendous amount of motivation that can be harnessed in complex and challenging projects.

Iran can build engines. And I have been a project manager for a long time in the aviation industry, meaning I know to under-promise.

This engine would be perfectly fine. Lots of applications, all helping Iran, from aviation to energy to marine. Yes, not perfect. But who gives a damn about perfection when you need to accomplish "good enough".

Iran can do this. Just needs political will that is willing to put the right project managers in charge and give them the funding and the staff to get the job done. Or, get the **** out of the way and let some of our industrialists do this on their own. There are Iranians I have met in San Francisco with $800M net worth, who would love to go to Iran (If CIA doesn't kill em first) and work on water projects, IT projects, microchip manufacturing projects, and they could easily fund an aviation engine manufacturing. You should see how many Iranians have worked for RR since 1988. Most are still alive, extremely knowledgeable in their own area, and in my opinion, most would be willing to help Iran build up its aviation engine industry.

However, the problem we all know is resting somewhere else. Pointless to beat up this dead horse. All we can do (as IRIAF) just wait for the right changes and keep up with things (overhauls) as much as we can until there are solid changes in political will. Israel and U.S. are doing everything they can to make sure it doesn't happen. We all can do our part and keep ourselves fit (mentally and technically) until the right moment when we are called up for duty.

Off to gym. Have a wonderful day my friend.

 

[PeeD]

Good morning my friend. It's about 6am here in Everett WA. I'm getting ready to go to gym and then off to work, so I'll make it short and quick.

JT8D is well within Iran's capabilities. They know this engine like the back of their hand and even get the few necessary parts, easily, from outside. Can this be used for F4 and/or F14? Yeah, sure. Indeed they can. There have been may be 30 or so variations of this engine, it is well tested, well documented, and still holds its own against everything else that has come out since 1960s after it. In fact some of the most profound technologies (or may be better said, would be innovations and ideas) are still from 1960s. We just are doing it better and smarter and more optimized in the aviation engine industry.

From what I see (and I am almost every week on the phone with someone in Iran), the issues in Iran ... 1) project commitment/funding/management and 2) long term "visionary" planning.

Iran as you said so correctly, can develop this engine and use it and even use it for multiple applications. It is a GREAT engine from the point of view of reliability. Iran has so many workshops right now maintaining, repairing, even modifying this engine and they are very comfortable with it. But the funds for a REAL SERIOUS project to build an aviation propulsion industry in Iran is lacking.

Under Rouhani the decision making process was so absurd that some amazing Iranian engineers went back to Germany. It was heart breaking. The ****ind idiots didn't understand motivation, management, vision, or project planning.

Iranian engineers (and Jewish engineers working all over the world on behalf of Israel), are some of the most motivated engineers you can ever come across. I know Iranians (I am sure you do too), that would work for Iran for free just to see Iran progress. It's a love in our hearts, no matter how long we live outside. Iranians kids born in Bevarely Hills (I was there over the weekend for a funeral) love Iran to death, even though they have never been there. They are disgusted with U.S. and its bullying of Iran. This is tremendous amount of motivation that can be harnessed in complex and challenging projects.

Iran can build engines. And I have been a project manager for a long time in the aviation industry, meaning I know to under-promise.

This engine would be perfectly fine. Lots of applications, all helping Iran, from aviation to energy to marine. Yes, not perfect. But who gives a damn about perfection when you need to accomplish "good enough".

Iran can do this. Just needs political will that is willing to put the right project managers in charge and give them the funding and the staff to get the job done. Or, get the **** out of the way and let some of our industrialists do this on their own. There are Iranians I have met in San Francisco with $800M net worth, who would love to go to Iran (If CIA doesn't kill em first) and work on water projects, IT projects, microchip manufacturing projects, and they could easily fund an aviation engine manufacturing. You should see how many Iranians have worked for RR since 1988. Most are still alive, extremely knowledgeable in their own area, and in my opinion, most would be willing to help Iran build up its aviation engine industry.

However, the problem we all know is resting somewhere else. Pointless to beat up this dead horse. All we can do (as IRIAF) just wait for the right changes and keep up with things (overhauls) as much as we can until there are solid changes in political will. Israel and U.S. are doing everything they can to make sure it doesn't happen. We all can do our part and keep ourselves fit (mentally and technically) until the right moment when we are called up for duty.

Off to gym. Have a wonderful day my friend.

Thanks for the good answer.

When you said Iran should build R-35 or Al-21 turbojets instead of turbofans, I was not convinced.
Only when I recently checked the data on these both engines I realized how close they are to comparable western turbofans in terms of thrust and fuel consumption.
So your point was a very good one.

For commercial high volume production Iran will go with the CFM56-5 in the future, probably with Mapna as producer.
But for limited numbers and non-commercial fighter applications, JT8D is the technology that has been mastered and is working.

The Spey on British F-4 was around 30% more fuel efficient then other F-4 with J79.
JT8D could do the same for Irans F-4 and make a better and somewhat more efficient engine for the F-14.

Getting R-35/Al-21 TBO levels high enough could be a challenge.