Iranian Ground Forces | News and Equipment

[TheImmortal]

Iran has already showed off an assembly line. Iran is producing a small number a year no more than a a dozen or two. But even 20 a year,in 20 years that will be 400 right ? That makes sense since Iran's military doctrine is based on defense anyways and Iran already has more than 1000 upgraded and well maintained tanks in inventory.

In 20 years karrar would be long in the tooth. It already lacks an APS system and its armament (shells) is lacking as great penetration power as western shells.

Iran should try to build at least 200-300 Karrar in next 5-7 years or upgrade existing inventory to that standard. I would then begin work on Karrar-2. A smaller more automated tank with drone capability and active protection system. That would represent “tank of the future”.

 

[sha ah]

APS can always be added later. Tanks have not advanced that much in the last 20-30 years. Most western tanks don't even have autoloaders. Look at what ISIS did to Leopard 2s in Syria with just RPGs.

Karrar is a fine platform, with upgrades over the years even better and hopefully in the future Iran can get its hands on Armata or something similar. Most countries even in the west aren't even thinking of anything that advanced yet anyways.

Japan, South Korea, French have autoloaders. Stubborn Americans are stuck on the whole "having a loader is better" One line kills that argument "Comparing a manual loader to an autoloader is like comparing a revolver to a glock, sure the revolver has certain advantages but in the end automation wins" The END

and the whole myth that American tanks are better than Soviet/Russian tanks is nonsense. I guarantee that if Abrams were sent into Ukraine instead of T-72s they wouldn't have faired much better. Look at what the Houthis did to the Abrams in Yemen. The Saudis gave up using them after losing dozens and dozens nonstop.

In 20 years karrar would be long in the tooth. It already lacks an APS system and its armament (shells) is lacking as great penetration power as western shells.

Iran should try to build at least 200-300 Karrar in next 5-7 years or upgrade existing inventory to that standard. I would then begin work on Karrar-2. A smaller more automated tank with drone capability and active protection system. That would represent “tank of the future”.

 

[Stryker1982]

Iran has already showed off an assembly line. Iran is producing a small number a year no more than a a dozen or two. But even 20 a year,in 20 years that will be 400 right ? That makes sense since Iran's military doctrine is based on defense anyways and Iran already has more than 1000 upgraded and well maintained tanks in inventory.

Lets just say on the high end----20 a year, that is much to slow, not for the type of system they are offering. If we were talking 200, jacked units with APS, very up-armoured (designed for urban warfare, and VBIEDs), counter-battery system, top-attack protection. I would be thrilled.

These tanks are specifically designed for low-cost mass manufacturing, unlike more difficult western models. So I do expect more.

They are also producing 1-3 Kowsar a year, this is not useful. Plus costs are also maximized with this slower production

How many times have we seen doubters on this site claims that Iran is NOT producing one thing or another just to see dozens of them later on ?

I'd say a majority of the products unveiled are usually not produced because they sit on the shelf due to YEARLY decreases in military budget. Money doesn't fall out of the sky. I don't think you understand the complexity of these processes. Can you blame them? We are still using helmets from the Shah era. How much do you expect them to produce with a few billion$ military budget? Not everything is being churned out in a factory 24/7.

Like what do they expect for Iran to show the world every single weapon they have ever produced ? and if not they don't exist ? Like come on seriously... "Oh I have only seen so many bullets so Iran cannot possibly have tens or hundreds of thousands of bullets, impossible, where are they then..."

What kind of silly logic is that ? By that logic we should assume that Iran only has a few hundred missiles then since that's all they've shown ? LOL

The fools perspective is to assume everything undergoes production, Iran like other nations produces tons of prototypes that are not produced for preference to another prototype. This isn't a video game where you click a few button and things get done, this is real life. The distinction with missiles is that is an IRGC project of extreme importance, unlike Karrar and Kowsar which are both VASTLY more expensive than your typical missile per unit. Money and industry and inextricably linked.

My hope Dadash, is that they do pump out Karrars, and be capable with defending itself against the latest gen anti-armor weaponry. Karrar thankfully is a modular design, so I can see them adding APS in at a later date. Most countries don't have the ATGM capacity Iran has, so countering Kornets and BGM-Tows will be a death blow to anyone who wants to fight Iran on land.

As long as the IRGC is happy or interested in the Karrar project, I do expect it to be produced but I was not sure when they were going to pump them out in a high rate. The regular army simply can't afford such a project.

 

[Stryker1982]

APS can always be added later. Tanks have not advanced that much in the last 20-30 years. Most western tanks don't even have autoloaders. Look at what ISIS did to Leopard 2s in Syria with just RPGs.

Karrar is a fine platform, with upgrades over the years even better and hopefully in the future Iran can get its hands on Armata or something similar. Most countries even in the west aren't even thinking of anything that advanced yet anyways.

Japan, South Korea, French have autoloaders. Stubborn Americans are stuck on the whole "having a loader is better" One line kills that argument "Comparing a manual loader to an autoloader is like comparing a revolver to a glock, sure the revolver has certain advantages but in the end automation wins" The END

and the whole myth that American tanks are better than Soviet/Russian tanks is nonsense. I guarantee that if Abrams were sent into Ukraine instead of T-72s they wouldn't have faired much better. Look at what the Houthis did to the Abrams in Yemen. The Saudis gave up using them after losing dozens and dozens nonstop.

Don't get me wrong, I am not "disappointed" with Karrar. I think it is a good platform that is modular and can be improved with more upgrades over time. But if you are not going to fit it with these very sexy modules, then you should expect faster production no?

It's simple, the project is running, but not "mass produced", just normal produced lol

 

[Hack-Hook]

LOL!!
You`re preaching to the choir my friend.
But seriously tho,does anyone know if anything came of it,did it fail for lack of effort,or was it simply just all a snow job from the get go?.

What you expect, Like other National vehicle 50% of it must come from Germany

ابهام درباره تولید اولین کامیون ایرانی

رئیس کانون انجمن‌های صنفی رانندگان حمل‌ونقل جاده‌ای می‌گوید: با وضعیت فعلی تحریم‌ها امکان انبوه‌سازی این خودرو وجود ندارد. درحال‌حاضر سایپا و ایران خودرو دیزل به ثبت نام‌کنندگان خودروهای سنگین پیشنهاد داده است که پراید را جایگزین خودروهای سنگین کنند.

www.khodrotak.com

Iran has already showed off an assembly line. Iran is producing a small number a year no more than a a dozen or two. But even 20 a year,in 20 years that will be 400 right ? That makes sense since Iran's military doctrine is based on defense anyways and Iran already has more than 1000 upgraded and well maintained tanks in inventory.

It's based on deterrence not defense . they are somehow different

 

[sha ah]

Anyone seen this PMU/PMF built tank ? It's called the Al Khafeel based on an upgraded T-55 I believe ? What do you guys think ? I think Iran's T-55 upgrades are much better but this is better than just a stock T-55 I guess. I can't help but think that the reactive armor plates on the turret are way too tiny.

 

[TheImmortal]

Anyone seen this PMU/PMF built tank ? It's called the Al Khafeel based on an upgraded T-55 I believe ? What do you guys think ? I think Iran's T-55 upgrades are much better but this is better than just a stock T-55 I guess. I can't help but think that the reactive armor plates on the turret are way too tiny.

View attachment 838708

You can make a tank “look” cool, but that doesn’t mean the armour protection that is between the layers of steel is any different. The

That’s why you see an export Abrams get destroyed by a 20K kornet, but an Abrams with depleted uranium survive the same hit.

and the whole myth that American tanks are better than Soviet/Russian tanks is nonsense. I guarantee that if Abrams were sent into Ukraine instead of T-72s they wouldn't have faired much better. Look at what the Houthis did to the Abrams in Yemen. The Saudis gave up using them after losing dozens and dozens nonstop.

The Abrams that are in Yemen are standard export Abrams. The ones the US uses has depleted uranium armour which to my knowledge is not offered for export. Nor do Saudi Abrams tanks have any APS like a Merkava does. Granted none of these features will make a tank immune to any destruction, but it increases survival rates.

At the end of the tactics play a big part in how armour losses play out. Sending 1-2 tanks into urban setting or parking them out in the open fields without air support or infantry support is never gonna be a good outcome.

Look at how Saudi’s utilized Abrams tanks and how Russia has also utilized tanks and how Ukraine. Flaws begin to appear when you don’t use tanks in a coordinated manner. I mean look at Bradley IFV did to Iraqi tanks. Tactics play a big role.

The biggest disadvantage to some Russian tanks is the “cook off” that happens due to the ammo storage not being separated from crew storage. It doesn’t give the tank crew time to escape, they get vaporized instantly.

Saving a experienced tank crew is more important than the tank.

Has Karrar fixed this design issue?

 

[Stryker1982]

The Abrams that are in Yemen are standard export Abrams. The ones the US uses has depleted uranium armour which to my knowledge is not offered for export. Nor do Saudi Abrams tanks have any APS like a Merkava does. Granted none of these features will make a tank immune to any destruction, but it increases survival rates.

At the end of the tactics play a big part in how armour losses play out. Sending 1-2 tanks into urban setting or parking them out in the open fields without air support or infantry support is never gonna be a good outcome.

Look at how Saudi’s utilized Abrams tanks and how Russia has also utilized tanks and how Ukraine. Flaws begin to appear when you don’t use tanks in a coordinated manner. I mean look at Bradley IFV did to Iraqi tanks. Tactics play a big role.

The biggest disadvantage to some Russian tanks is the “cook off” that happens due to the ammo storage not being separated from crew storage. It doesn’t give the tank crew time to escape, they get vaporized instantly.

Saving a experienced tank crew is more important than the tank.

Has Karrar fixed this design issue?

Dude has such a childish view on things like he's playing a video game. "The myth". How many tanks did the US lose in Iraq?

 

[TheImmortal]

Dude has such a childish view on things like he's playing a video game. "The myth". How many tanks did the US lose in Iraq?

Depends which Iraq.

1991 Iraq which was a formidable beast on paper. Battle of Medina Ridge US lost 4 tanks to Iraqs 186 tanks.

2003 Iraq and subsequent insurgency.... very little mostly because RPG-7 (weapon of the insurgents) cannot penetrate an Abrams from the front or side. It can disable if it hits the tracks. Most were repaired and put into action. Some losses were suspected to be kornets or an unknown ATGM.

The real damage to tanks was the subsequent insurgency going over massive IEDs and EFPs that would shoot a projectile of molten lead into the crew area or ammo storage. Over 500 Abrams tanks had to be sent for repairs.

 

[GrandBotBoi]

You can make a tank “look” cool, but that doesn’t mean the armour protection that is between the layers of steel is any different. The

That’s why you see an export Abrams get destroyed by a 20K kornet, but an Abrams with depleted uranium survive the same hit.



The Abrams that are in Yemen are standard export Abrams. The ones the US uses has depleted uranium armour which to my knowledge is not offered for export. Nor do Saudi Abrams tanks have any APS like a Merkava does. Granted none of these features will make a tank immune to any destruction, but it increases survival rates.

At the end of the tactics play a big part in how armour losses play out. Sending 1-2 tanks into urban setting or parking them out in the open fields without air support or infantry support is never gonna be a good outcome.

Look at how Saudi’s utilized Abrams tanks and how Russia has also utilized tanks and how Ukraine. Flaws begin to appear when you don’t use tanks in a coordinated manner. I mean look at Bradley IFV did to Iraqi tanks. Tactics play a big role.

The biggest disadvantage to some Russian tanks is the “cook off” that happens due to the ammo storage not being separated from crew storage. It doesn’t give the tank crew time to escape, they get vaporized instantly.

Saving a experienced tank crew is more important than the tank.

Has Karrar fixed this design issue?

An Abrams with depleted Uranium is still not going to stop a Kornet/Dehlavieh with 1.3 meters of penetration.

Karrar does kinda fix the cook off issue. Extra ammo is separated and has blowout panels. Assumably the autoloader is also armored like on T-90M

Also I'd like to address the previous discussion on Karrar. Iran is not going to make only 400 in 2 decades lol. I'd expect the order of 800 to be finished by 2025-2026, with a total cost of about 2 billion USD. For a Karrar MK2, what you described is good but not entirely what I think will happen nor what Iran needs. Iran will probably take an improved version of the Karrar's turret, and mate it with a Zulfiqar-3 based chassis. It would assumably be optionally manned, and replace the soft kill APS with a hard kill one.

 

[Stryker1982]

I'd expect the order of 800 to be finished by 2025-2026

Yeah I expect something like this to be done by that time frame, can't pinpoint a number but a substantial amount should be available by then. Probably first acquired by IRGC-GF and probably the Artesh later, or maybe they will stay on their Zulfiqar work. They seems to have paraded it during the army parade this year so It's not like it disappeared.

A while ago, but they are on the right track I think. Probably budgetary constraints are stopping it from full speed ahead.

Iran tested its first home-made Active Protection System (APS) mounted

Iran tested its first home-made Active Protection System (APS) mounted on Zolfaqar tanks

www.armyrecognition.com

 

[GrandBotBoi]

Depends which Iraq.

1991 Iraq which was a formidable beast on paper. Battle of Medina Ridge US lost 4 tanks to Iraqs 186 tanks.

2003 Iraq and subsequent insurgency.... very little mostly because RPG-7 (weapon of the insurgents) cannot penetrate an Abrams from the front or side. It can disable if it hits the tracks. Most were repaired and put into action. Some losses were suspected to be kornets or an unknown ATGM.

The real damage to tanks was the subsequent insurgency going over massive IEDs and EFPs that would shoot a projectile of molten lead into the crew area or ammo storage. Over 500 Abrams tanks had to be sent for repairs.

There's a video on youtube of a bunch of non-export abrams destroyed

Yeah I expect something like this to be done by that time frame, can't pinpoint a number but a substantial amount should be available by then. Probably first acquired by IRGC-GF and probably the Artesh later, or maybe they will stay on their Zulfiqar work. They seems to have paraded it during the army parade this year so It's not like it disappeared.

A while ago, but they are on the right track I think. Probably budgetary constraints are stopping it from full speed ahead.

Iran tested its first home-made Active Protection System (APS) mounted

Iran tested its first home-made Active Protection System (APS) mounted on Zolfaqar tanks

www.armyrecognition.com

Artesh always parades Zulfiqar. We saw already that Artesh got some Karrars too, the armored unit in Shiraz to be specific. Hopefully those were just for testing, as they lost the soft kill APS

 

[sha ah]

Even APS dont guarantee protection for tankers. RPS-30 can already do the job. Never mind launching multiple ATGMs and using IEDs at once. Where there's a will there's a way. Even countries with massive budgets with the extremely powerful militaries are not adding aps to all their tanks. Proficient logistics and an efficient arms doctrine is more important than the the most "cutting edge" tech. Look at what Hezb did to the invincible Merkava in 2006 or what Houthis did to the mighty Abrams.

Also hasn't the army increased its budget recently ? If u consider ppl or the cost of labour and materials in Iran then Iran does now have a decent budget.

Lets just say on the high end----20 a year, that is much to slow, not for the type of system they are offering. If we were talking 200, jacked units with APS, very up-armoured (designed for urban warfare, and VBIEDs), counter-battery system, top-attack protection. I would be thrilled.

These tanks are specifically designed for low-cost mass manufacturing, unlike more difficult western models. So I do expect more.

They are also producing 1-3 Kowsar a year, this is not useful. Plus costs are also maximized with this slower production



I'd say a majority of the products unveiled are usually not produced because they sit on the shelf due to YEARLY decreases in military budget. Money doesn't fall out of the sky. I don't think you understand the complexity of these processes. Can you blame them? We are still using helmets from the Shah era. How much do you expect them to produce with a few billion$ military budget? Not everything is being churned out in a factory 24/7.



The fools perspective is to assume everything undergoes production, Iran like other nations produces tons of prototypes that are not produced for preference to another prototype. This isn't a video game where you click a few button and things get done, this is real life. The distinction with missiles is that is an IRGC project of extreme importance, unlike Karrar and Kowsar which are both VASTLY more expensive than your typical missile per unit. Money and industry and inextricably linked.

My hope Dadash, is that they do pump out Karrars, and be capable with defending itself against the latest gen anti-armor weaponry. Karrar thankfully is a modular design, so I can see them adding APS in at a later date. Most countries don't have the ATGM capacity Iran has, so countering Kornets and BGM-Tows will be a death blow to anyone who wants to fight Iran on land.

As long as the IRGC is happy or interested in the Karrar project, I do expect it to be produced but I was not sure when they were going to pump them out in a high rate. The regular army simply can't afford such a project.

 

[sha ah]

Many Abrams tanks in Iraq were destroyed just by RPGs hitting the right spot. Of course Americans downplay any losses as much as they can to hype up their weapons. Even Merkava have been destroyed by Hamas by being hit in the weak spot.

In Ukraine hundreds of British, American, Canadian mercenaries have been slaughtered but this is being kept under wraps. In a few decades once the documents are declassified you'll hear all about it.

There are countless foolish sheep who were drawn into Ukraine by the propaganda to fight for democracy only to find out that the entire operation is being run by the US (CIA)
Many of these fools who escaped alive claim that dozens of their compatriots died by Russian missile strikes and that the Ukrainian contracts did not even have a section for "next of kin" information.

Currently the Russians have captured countless Javelins. I'm Curious to see how the Abrams would fair against Javelins or even a direct hit from an Iranian made TOW on a week point.

Also as for APSs, the RPG-30 which Iran producers can already overcome them.

Yes Bradley's destroyed Iraqi made variants of the T-72 or export variants and yes combined arms tactics and good leadship, strategy are more important than technology itself.

However as for the Saudis in many cases they had no choice but it turn them off in the middle of the desert to contact nseeve gas or bcuz they had nowhere else to hide them.

You can make a tank “look” cool, but that doesn’t mean the armour protection that is between the layers of steel is any different. The

That’s why you see an export Abrams get destroyed by a 20K kornet, but an Abrams with depleted uranium survive the same hit.



The Abrams that are in Yemen are standard export Abrams. The ones the US uses has depleted uranium armour which to my knowledge is not offered for export. Nor do Saudi Abrams tanks have any APS like a Merkava does. Granted none of these features will make a tank immune to any destruction, but it increases survival rates.

At the end of the tactics play a big part in how armour losses play out. Sending 1-2 tanks into urban setting or parking them out in the open fields without air support or infantry support is never gonna be a good outcome.

Look at how Saudi’s utilized Abrams tanks and how Russia has also utilized tanks and how Ukraine. Flaws begin to appear when you don’t use tanks in a coordinated manner. I mean look at Bradley IFV did to Iraqi tanks. Tactics play a big role.

The biggest disadvantage to some Russian tanks is the “cook off” that happens due to the ammo storage not being separated from crew storage. It doesn’t give the tank crew time to escape, they get vaporized instantly.

Saving a experienced tank crew is more important than the tank.

Has Karrar fixed this design issue?

 

[GrandBotBoi]

Even APS dont guarantee protection for tankers. RPS-30 can already do the job. Never mind launching multiple ATGMs and using IEDs at once. Where there's a will there's a way. Even countries with massive budgets with the extremely powerful militaries are not adding aps to all their tanks. Proficient logistics and an efficient arms doctrine is more important than the the most "cutting edge" tech. Look at what Hezb did to the invincible Merkava in 2006 or what Houthis did to the mighty Abrams.

Also hasn't the army increased its budget recently ? If u consider ppl or the cost of labour and materials in Iran then Iran does now have a decent budget.

Indeed, but only 2 countries on earth have RPG-30 or a similar weapon. Those being Iran and Russia. An APS for Iran needs to guarantee top attack protection like Afghanit. So unlike Trophy or Arena. Pair it with soft kill jammers, special IR smoke like in Afghanit, and the thermal camo seen on Karrars recently.

Iran has essentially perfected weaponry against the APS used by it's enemies. Dual Dehlavieh or quad Pirooz launchers to swarm APS, Almas with a trajectory that can't be stopped by trophy, RPG-30 copies, etc.