Iranian Ground Forces | News and Equipment

[sanel1412]

I was a little bit confused bro.

They're planning on just upgrading some T-72s to a 'Karrar' standard or are they also building these tanks from scratch?

It is very simple...They will produce new MBTs but also there is upgrade process for existing large fleet of T-72...Iran has 570 T72S and also around 200 T 72M/M1(M/M1 can be easily spoted by lak of ERA,has 4 smoke lunchers in front unlike S that has aside..also snorkel is aside(even this is not alwas ase). And considering now they have new FCS and other tech developed for Karrar I would not surprise if they upgrade other type of MBts with some of tech available..There is doumentary on Y.T where they talk about MBTs production in Iran..around 700 new Karrar are planed for next 10 years along with upgrade of existing fleet. This is logical since older MBTs need replacment in next 5-10 years

 

[TheImmortal]

It is very simple...They will produce new MBTs but also there is upgrade process for existing large fleet of T-72...Iran has 570 T72S and also around 200 T 72M/M1(M/M1 can be easily spoted by lak of ERA,has 4 smoke lunchers in front unlike S that has aside..also snorkel is aside(even this is not alwas ase). And considering now they have new FCS and other tech developed for Karrar I would not surprise if they upgrade other type of MBts with some of tech available..There is doumentary on Y.T where they talk about MBTs production in Iran..around 700 new Karrar are planed for next 10 years along with upgrade of existing fleet. This is logical since older MBTs need replacment in next 5-10 years

Not to mention the Shrota like system just passed trials in Iran. It was developed in Syria to jam TOWs.

Still without an APS kinetic system, I don’t see Iran building many “new” tanks. APS kinetic system is key or else system is vulnerable to Top attack/TV/and FWB missiles.

Shrota can only jam laser guided missiles I believe maybe RF guided as well tho I can’t even remember if there are even RF guided anti missiles. I might be confusing them with MM radar guided missiles.

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

Not to mention the Shrota like system just passed trials in Iran. It was developed in Syria to jam TOWs.

Still without an APS kinetic system, I don’t see Iran building many “new” tanks. APS kinetic system is key or else system is vulnerable to Top attack/TV/and FWB missiles.

Shrota can only jam laser guided missiles I believe maybe RF guided as well tho I can’t even remember if there are even RF guided anti missiles. I might be confusing them with MM radar guided missiles.

What is FWB missile?

 

[TheImmortal]

What is FWB missile?

Typo....ment to say fire by wire (fbw) Missile or wired guidance.

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

Typo....ment to say fire by wire (fbw) Missile or wired guidance.

Not to mention the Shrota like system just passed trials in Iran. It was developed in Syria to jam TOWs.

Still without an APS kinetic system, I don’t see Iran building many “new” tanks. APS kinetic system is key or else system is vulnerable to Top attack/TV/and FWB missiles.

Shrota can only jam laser guided missiles I believe maybe RF guided as well tho I can’t even remember if there are even RF guided anti missiles. I might be confusing them with MM radar guided missiles.

The soft Kill APS Iran has developed is specifically designed against SACLOS (Wire guided) missiles like T.O.W (Tube launched. Optically tracked. Wire Guided) . There for Wire guided missiles are not a threat to Karrar but Laser beam riding missiles like Kornet and Infrared Imaging Guidance like Spike missiles.

 

[Messerschmitt]

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

View attachment 803558

Unfortunatly the Border Guard in the picture was Martyred recently!

 

[TheImmortal]

The soft Kill APS Iran has developed is specifically designed against SACLOS (Wire guided) missiles like T.O.W (Tube launched. Optically tracked. Wire Guided) . There for Wire guided missiles are not a threat to Karrar but Laser beam riding missiles like Kornet and Infrared Imaging Guidance like Spike missiles.

Correct, but it still attempts to disrupt laser rangefinder or designator of TOW. However, a skilled operator could fire and guide to target manually if close enough to target thus by passing the system. It is not different than aerosol in reality, in aerosol once tank detects it is being lasered it fires aerosols to disperse the lasers strength causing misfire.

The latest systems will automatically realign the turret to where the target is lasering from and fire in hopes of killing the anti tank crew.

Iran still needs kinetic APS system on top of Shorta system. We know one is/was in development as it was being tested on Zolfighar-3 years ago.

 

[Natalya Shadova]

1.The main gun in the top picture has a muzzle cover on it. the cover is removed in the bottom picture.
2. In the top Phot the Crew commander's remote weapons system is pointed to the rear of the vehicle and in the bottom picture it is pointed to the front.

I am a Big Fan of the Karrar MBT project and it is not my intention to spread false negative information to discredit it. I had looked closely at he Photos presented and came to the conclusion that there where 2 Karrars present but then I saw this picture.
View attachment 803042
By looking at the camo pattern on the exposed parts of the Barrel it became clear to me that this was the same Karrar as the one without the added Camouflage netting and shrouds.

Look again

So IRGC lead organization got priority funding for their projects as usual...

View attachment 803155

...and then those IRGC fanboys brag about "achievements and successes of IRGC" made possible by nepotism, cronyism and favoritism when IRGC milks Iran-Iraq War for all its worth.

Karrar was simply a better and more realistic project. Zulfiqar lacked commander's sights and a modern FCS. Karrar has better protection it seems, and would be multitudes cheaper because it uses T-72S hulls

 

[yugocrosrb95]

Karrar was simply a better and more realistic project. Zulfiqar lacked commander's sights and a modern FCS. Karrar has better protection it seems, and would be multitudes cheaper because it uses T-72S hulls

I am sure you believe that you have an argument yet you clearly failed to consider fact that both Zulfigar and Karrar are Iranian projects done by separate entities.

What Karrar has over Zulfigar is what Zulfigar could have had were there cooperation, instead there is mediocrity.

Karrar potency is limited by higher ground pressure, increase stress and load on engine, gearbox, road wheels and tracks along autoloader having a limit on length of munition hence need for exotic solution in order to increase performance such as on APFSDS versus manual loaders like M1 Abrams or Leopard 2 or with turret basket autoloader such as K2 and Type 90 / 10.

If there was goal to have tank go from southernmost to northernmost Iranian territory then crew of Karrar would need to change damaged or broken sections of track would have to do it at minimum once if not twice while Zulfigar may not even need it once during entire trip. Thus in time of crisis Zulfigar would be more reliable than Karrar.

 

[Natalya Shadova]

I am sure you believe that you have an argument yet you clearly failed to consider fact that both Zulfigar and Karrar are Iranian projects done by separate entities.

What Karrar has over Zulfigar is what Zulfigar could have had were there cooperation, instead there is mediocrity.

Karrar potency is limited by higher ground pressure, increase stress and load on engine, gearbox, road wheels and tracks along autoloader having a limit on length of munition hence need for exotic solution in order to increase performance such as on APFSDS versus manual loaders like M1 Abrams or Leopard 2 or with turret basket autoloader such as K2 and Type 90 / 10.

If there was goal to have tank go from southernmost to northernmost Iranian territory then crew of Karrar would need to change damaged or broken sections of track would have to do it at minimum once if not twice while Zulfigar may not even need it once during entire trip. Thus in time of crisis Zulfigar would be more reliable than Karrar.

Iran uses trucks to transport all it's tanks across the country though, so it's not a problem at all. If I remember correctly, Zulfiqar also had an autoloader. Also autoloader completely reduces the stress of a gunner constantly reloading

Karrar on the other hand could be fitted to the hundreds of T-72s Iran has for much cheaper.

 

[sanel1412]

Karrar is DIO project(defense ministry or better say government) and it will be delivered to Artesh and IRGC,in fact first examples after it is was unveiled were given to Army. Zulfiqar was projet of Artesh,or to be precise it is developed by the Research and Self-Sufficiency Jihad Organization of the Iranian Army, They build many stuff up to prottype,from own founds they have and latter some got in production some not,most of their projects are actually upgrades. As mentioned,FCS and everything else Karrar have,you can install on ulfiqar...that is not issue..and every parade on April 18 (army day) I see more Zulfiqar 3...first was one..than 2....last parade there was 5 without FCS installed and one fully equiped..so they work still some low level stuff...Problem with Zulfiqar 3...it is almost same as Abrams...in size...unlike all other Iranian MBTs whih belongs in to lass of medium MBTs....with 5 and 6 wheels,Zulfiqar 3 has 7 wheels...it is significantly heavier and larger. Zulfiqar 1 was based on M-60...at least hull,with 6 wheels..but Z3 is much larger,Abrams size...now Z-3 use same gun as Karrar and t-72, and probably now would use same FCS...than there is no sense introduce new hull,new heavy MBT and everything else when for sake of production and maintaince it has more sense to go for Karrar..as I said,Z3 use same gun,auto loader,ammunition as Karrar...so why then look like it.and dont forget,it was after IRGC and Hezbollah saw T-90 adventage in Syria Iran decided,first to buy T-90 than latter to go with domestic Karrar..when it was 2013-2014...correct me if I miss year...Zulfiqar started in 1993..

 

[yugocrosrb95]

Iran uses trucks to transport all it's tanks across the country though, so it's not a problem at all. If I remember correctly, Zulfiqar also had an autoloader. Also autoloader completely reduces the stress of a gunner constantly reloading. Karrar on the other hand could be fitted to the hundreds of T-72s Iran has for much cheaper.

My point was being about endurance of the gearbox, road wheels and tracks and you can't count on trucks to transport tanks when they can be adapted to transport supplies.

Karrar is DIO project(defense ministry or better say government) and it will be delivered to Artesh and IRGC,in fact first examples after it is was unveiled were given to Army. Zulfiqar was projet of Artesh,or to be precise it is developed by the Research and Self-Sufficiency Jihad Organization of the Iranian Army, They build many stuff up to prottype,from own founds they have and latter some got in production some not,most of their projects are actually upgrades. As mentioned,FCS and everything else Karrar have,you can install on ulfiqar...that is not issue..and every parade on April 18 (army day) I see more Zulfiqar 3...first was one..than 2....last parade there was 5 without FCS installed and one fully equiped..so they work still some low level stuff...Problem with Zulfiqar 3...it is almost same as Abrams...in size...unlike all other Iranian MBTs whih belongs in to lass of medium MBTs....with 5 and 6 wheels,Zulfiqar 3 has 7 wheels...it is significantly heavier and larger. Zulfiqar 1 was based on M-60...at least hull,with 6 wheels..but Z3 is much larger,Abrams size...now Z-3 use same gun as Karrar and t-72, and probably now would use same FCS...than there is no sense introduce new hull,new heavy MBT and everything else when for sake of production and maintaince it has more sense to go for Karrar..as I said,Z3 use same gun,auto loader,ammunition as Karrar...so why then look like it.and dont forget,it was after IRGC and Hezbollah saw T-90 adventage in Syria Iran decided,first to buy T-90 than latter to go with domestic Karrar..when it was 2013-2014...correct me if I miss year...Zulfiqar started in 1993..

Greatest threat for T-90 in Syria involving tanks is T-72 that it faced off and those explosive reactive armor are single use.

China has in service MBTs with weight of 55 tons, as too South Korea, Japan, America, Germany, France, Britain...

Zulfigar-3 would at least have chance to survive being shot at from front by American M1A2 Abrams with latest APFSDS.

Karrar is adequate to deal with Pakistan, Azerbaijan and any other country with medium weight class MBT.

Zulfigar being derived from M60 probably had also much better gun depression and elevation hence greater suitability for warfare in hilly, mountainous and urban setting than Karrar.

 

[sanel1412]

My point was being about endurance of the gearbox, road wheels and tracks and you can't count on trucks to transport tanks when they can be adapted to transport supplies.


Greatest threat for T-90 in Syria involving tanks is T-72 that it faced off and those explosive reactive armor are single use.

China has in service MBTs with weight of 55 tons, as too South Korea, Japan, America, Germany, France, Britain...

Zulfigar-3 would at least have chance to survive being shot at from front by American M1A2 Abrams with latest APFSDS.

Karrar is adequate to deal with Pakistan, Azerbaijan and any other country with medium weight class MBT.

Zulfigar being derived from M60 probably had also much better gun depression and elevation hence greater suitability for warfare in hilly, mountainous and urban setting than Karrar.

I am not against Zulfiqar,I just present you facts...for 20 yrs Zulfiqar was without competition...and it is not Karrar what killed it...in fact,considering how many parallel projects for same role was unveiled,I would not be surprised even if Z3 goes in production...IRIAF had fortros,Shahed 129 to procure without hassle but they built mq9 alike drone..many other examples...like air defense...IRGC 3th of Khordar ....IRIAD khordar 15...IRGC Dezful....IRIAD Maid and 2nd I cant remember with VLS

 

[Natalya Shadova]

My point was being about endurance of the gearbox, road wheels and tracks and you can't count on trucks to transport tanks when they can be adapted to transport supplies.


Greatest threat for T-90 in Syria involving tanks is T-72 that it faced off and those explosive reactive armor are single use.

China has in service MBTs with weight of 55 tons, as too South Korea, Japan, America, Germany, France, Britain...

Zulfigar-3 would at least have chance to survive being shot at from front by American M1A2 Abrams with latest APFSDS.

Karrar is adequate to deal with Pakistan, Azerbaijan and any other country with medium weight class MBT.

Zulfigar being derived from M60 probably had also much better gun depression and elevation hence greater suitability for warfare in hilly, mountainous and urban setting than Karrar.

Iran has dedicated tank transporters. They won't be used for other purposes, and Iran has more than enough of them. Tanks would be driving across the country by themselves. You seem to think Karrar's turret is bad or something, but in reality it is extremely well protected and has great ammunition storage compared to other tanks with autoloaders. The only way I can see Zulfiqar being brought back is either using the hull with a Karrar turret after all T-72s are modernized or a Zulfiqar-4 next generation tank.