Iranian Foreign Minister to Visit China

[Indus Pakistan]

What is wrong with wanting your country to be independent?

Don't you get it man, the only independant country is United States. All the rest have to a degree compromise. If you live in UK you should know that. Hell the proud Germans and Japanese who did far more fighting against US then anybody else have to put up with US bases.

You make it sound like black and white. Like master/slave relationship. In real life it's not that simple - there are shades of grey. All I said was you have to make a choice - you can't act like a marooned nation in middle of the ocean. With all what you guy's have. Oil, gas and literate population you could be regional power. Instead you insist fighting ghosts of the past. I know Iran has been scarred by the experiance ever since Anglo-Persian oil company, Dr Mossadeq's removal and Shah being installed but you got to move past that now.

Instead your paranoid about your sovreignty being compromised not realizing that you yourself have spoiled it by your fear of everything. Anyway it's your country, you know best and I wish the best for you guy's. I really do but it is pity such a country with such huge potential lives trapped in the past.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Don't you get it man, the only independant country is United States. All the rest have to a degree compromise. If you live in UK you should know that. Hell the proud Germans and Japanese who did far more fighting against US then anybody else have to put up with US bases.

You make it sound like black and white. Like master/slave relationship. In real life it's not that simple - there are shades of grey. All I said was you have to make a choice - you can't act like a marooned nation in middle of the ocean. With all what you guy's have. Oil, gas and literate population you could be regional power. Instead you insist fighting ghosts of the past. I know Iran has been scarred by the experiance ever since Anglo-Persian oil company, Dr Mossadeq's removal and Shah being installed but you got to move past that now.

Instead your paranoid about your sovreignty being compromised not realizing that you yourself have spoiled it by your fear of everything. Anyway it's your country, you know best and I wish the best for you guy's. I really do but it is pity such a country with such huge potential lives trapped in the past.

Again, I implore you to find anywhere that I have opposed cooperation with China at all. Or where Iran has stood in the way of Chinese interests.

When you say Iran should be "aligned with" China, damn well I'll think of our past, after all those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Personally I find it funny when someone says Iran is "aligned with" Russia in Syria, when we have our own interests there, which happen to have found common ground with Russia. Hence the cooperation. That sort of strategic cooperation is the type Iran has repeatedly said it wants to have on a permanent basis with Russia and China.

But yes, the word "aligned" stood out to me, since Iran is a leading member of the Non-Aligned Movement and the 16th NAM summit was held in Tehran 4 years ago. Cold war alliances stood out to me. A better description of what you are talking about is strategic cooperation, since I hardly think you expect Iran to allow China any military bases in Iran.

Hell the proud Germans and Japanese who did far more fighting against US then anybody else have to put up with US bases.

Because they lost.

Instead your paranoid about your sovreignty being compromised

Middle East politics is cut-throat, but paranoia is not an accurate description of my state of mind.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

16th NAM summit

You believe in this NAM thing do you? Indian's will jump into bed with American's faster then addict whore would jump in the sack for crack cocaine. Just check out the Indian members here, half of them have elevated Trump to a Hindu god. Saudia Arabia is in it as well, a country that is a American orphan.

China any military bases in Iran.

Here you go, you reveal the insecurities of the past. Pakistan has a very close strategic relationship with China and even it does not have military base with that country so what makes you think Chinese are going to open a military base in Iran or indeed want to? Paranoia?

I think the first Chinese military base is going to be set up in Eritea, Djiboiuti or Horn of Africa.

 

[mohsen]

Iran will cooperate with anyone (but not be "into alignment" with, we are aligned with ourselves) who wants to do so and who shares common interests. China and Iran have lots of economic (oil), military, trade (New Silk Road) and geopolitical (countering US hegemony) common interests, so I don't see why there should be any obstacles from Iran.

the biggest obstacle which you could find, economy.
China's economy is heavily depended on west, their whole industry is depended on importing west tech, mass producing and exporting again a big part of it to west. take it from them and their whole economy and industry will collapse.

For that reason, we will never be close allies.

 

[AmirPatriot]

what makes you think Chinese are going to open a military base in Iran or indeed want to

I don't think they will, but its that sort of level of "alignment" which I want to avoid.

And yes, they are insecurities. So much so that it is written in our constitution that foreign countries cannot establish military bases in Iran. That doesn't mean I do not want my country to cooperate closely with China.

China's economy is heavily depended on west

China's economy is so huge that the west is as if not more dependent on China. They are buying huge companies. Nobody is going to sanction them simply because to do so would be economic suicide. The global economy would completely collapse, and most countries in the world would go into deep recession.

China gets away with a lot of their actions because they have a huge population and a huge economy that keeps the rest of the world going.

 

[mohsen]

China's economy is so huge that the west is as if not more dependent on China. They are buying huge companies. Nobody is going to sanction them simply because to do so would be economic suicide. The global economy would completely collapse, and most countries in the world would go into deep recession.

China gets away with a lot of their actions because they have a huge population and a huge economy that keeps the rest of the world going.

and yet people like trump talk about what you called suicide!
Accept that the biggest loser will be China. West will just experience a drop (mostly temporary) in their market (Chinese wont disappear), China will loose everything.

though what you said is the only card which Chinese have and that's why they can export some of their products to us, NOTHING BEYOND THAT.

 

[AmirPatriot]

and yet people like trump talk about what you called suicide!
Accept that the biggest loser will be China. West will just experience a drop (mostly temporary) in their market (Chinese wont disappear), China will loose everything.

though what you said is the only card which Chinese have and that's why they can export some of their products to us, NOTHING BEYOND THAT.

Yes, Trump is talking about suicide, because he is a populist. And by the way, he isn't sanctioning them, he is talking about an import tax. In another way, he is actually helping China by scrapping the TPP, which was hugely in America's favour and against China's. Believe me, just because the US will reduce its trade with China doesn't mean the rest of the world won't be dependent on them.

 

[Shotgunner51]

https://defence.pk/threads/afp-chin...ion-of-iran-nuclear-deal.464961/#post-8979938

In message to Trump, China, Iran say nuclear deal must stand
Published December 05, 2016 Associated Pres

Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif, left, poses with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi
before a meeting in Beijing Monday, Dec. 5, 2016.
(Greg Baker/Pool Photo via AP) (The Associated Press)​

China Warns Against Obstruction of Iran Nuclear Deal
AFP 1 hr ago

© Provided by AFP
Iran's Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif (L) shakes hands with his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi
after a joint press conference in Beijing, on December 5, 2016​

 

[mohsen]

Yes, Trump is talking about suicide, because he is a populist. And by the way, he isn't sanctioning them, he is talking about an import tax. In another way, he is actually helping China by scrapping the TPP, which was hugely in America's favour and against China's. Believe me, just because the US will reduce its trade with China doesn't mean the rest of the world won't be dependent on them.

Yes, trump isn't sanctioning them, and China isn't challenging the U.S too.
If west (U.S isn't alone) want to sanction the china, then there will be no more production in China for other countries to be dependent on. from small electronic parts to manufacturing infrastructures, they are either under license productions or heavily rely on subsidiary imports from west, do you think Chinese suddenly turned into an electronic manufacturing giant?! no. they are producing them under license.
even if they pull out their factories from China, still they can easily find cheap labors around the world. They Chose china in the past, cause it was a concession to keep China in control. the more Chinese disobey = the more lose of that concession.

 

[royalharris]

funny

 

[AmirPatriot]

Yes, trump isn't sanctioning them, and China isn't challenging the U.S too.
If west (U.S isn't alone) want to sanction the china, then there will be no more production in China for other countries to be dependent on. from small electronic parts to manufacturing infrastructures, they are either under license productions or heavily rely on subsidiary imports from west, do you think Chinese suddenly turned into an electronic manufacturing giant?! no. they are producing them under license.
even if they pull out their factories from China, still they can easily find cheap labors around the world. They Chose china in the past, cause it was a concession to keep China in control. the more Chinese disobey = the more lose of that concession.

I think you are underestimating the power 1.4 billion people and a 16 trillion dollar economy hold. Nobody in their right minds is going to sanction China because of the repercussions for their own economies. Everyone and their mother wants access to that market, it simply represents too huge a source of revenue for the entire world. Sanction China and you have the collapse of the oil price to single digits, every western country losing a monumental amount of export revenue and of course, a very pissed off dragon.

 

[psr540]

Yes, trump isn't sanctioning them, and China isn't challenging the U.S too.
If west (U.S isn't alone) want to sanction the china, then there will be no more production in China for other countries to be dependent on. from small electronic parts to manufacturing infrastructures, they are either under license productions or heavily rely on subsidiary imports from west, do you think Chinese suddenly turned into an electronic manufacturing giant?! no. they are producing them under license.
even if they pull out their factories from China, still they can easily find cheap labors around the world. They Chose china in the past, cause it was a concession to keep China in control. the more Chinese disobey = the more lose of that concession.

You are so wrong on too many things. U.S is working so hard trying to contain a rising China and you think we only have cheap labors?

 

[The SC]

You know it struck me now. Mullahs in Iran, Mullahs in Pakistan, Mullahs in UK mean only one thing. Bad, bad, real bad news. They seem to have corrosive effect on reason and rationale.

Anyway my best wishes to Iran.

Just explain to him the difference between buying influence while keep being independent, and being aligned with some side..
PS: Ksa plays it right somehow, while it appears to be totally aligned with the US, it is not.. it might buy influence, but it keeps its sovereign independence, like in the case of the Chinese ballistic missiles bought some years ago; When the US got too nosy, KSA expelled their Ambassador..

 

[mohsen]

You are so wrong on too many things. U.S is working so hard trying to contain a rising China and you think we only have cheap labors?

No, read carefully, I said IF it was cheap labors they could find it easily around the world from Latin America to south east Asia.

 

[OldTwilight]

Yes, trump isn't sanctioning them, and China isn't challenging the U.S too.
If west (U.S isn't alone) want to sanction the china, then there will be no more production in China for other countries to be dependent on. from small electronic parts to manufacturing infrastructures, they are either under license productions or heavily rely on subsidiary imports from west, do you think Chinese suddenly turned into an electronic manufacturing giant?! no. they are producing them under license.
even if they pull out their factories from China, still they can easily find cheap labors around the world. They Chose china in the past, cause it was a concession to keep China in control. the more Chinese disobey = the more lose of that concession.

China has plan to make China as biggest market in the world and with 1 billion people , they can do it .... they just need to increase their people income for this ...

تنها دلیلی که غرب قوی ترین اقتصاد رو داره اینه که درآمد مردمش بالاست و در نتیجه یک بازار داخلی قوی درشون وجود داره ... نکته ی جالب اینجاست که ما در ایران از زمان هاشمی رفسنجانی طبق سیاست های صندوق بین المللی پول شروع کردیم به بی ارزش کردن پول ملی و در نتیجه کاهش قدرت خرید مردم که نتیجه ش شد اینکه تمام نیروی کار ماهر از کشور خارج شدن و اقتصاد داخلی رو به نابودی رفت و با فسادی که به خاطر کاهش ارزش پول ملی به وجود آمد ، مردم به فقر و بدبختی افتادن ...

زمانی که شما 800 تومن در ماه می گیری ، به تنها چیزی که فکر می کنی اینه که ارزون ترین جنس رو بگیری و هیچ وقت نمی تونی به فکر تولید داخلی باشی ...

No, read carefully, I said IF it was cheap labors they could find it easily around the world from Latin America to south east Asia.

cheap labor is just a lie by western to increase their wealth ... did cheap labor endanger western countries !? no , they just used other countries as their slave to increase their wealth and improve their economy ...

cheap labor in long term will crush countries ... China found out about this and they are improving their economy and increase their people income to use their own country potential for stable economic growth ...