Iranian Chill Thread

[rmi5]

LOL, you are just fooling yourself, your denial and name calling doesn't help

I am done talking to some one blind and as you.

OK, Mr. educated idiot, only quote me again, if you knew the basic requirements. Then I will consider responding to your comment

 

[mohsen]

3, 4 nafar rou eshtebah mention kardi. ona az taraf darayeh Pourpirar hastan.

اگه منظورت من بود که من طرفدار هیچکدوم نیستم، تاریخدانهای ایران هم میتونن تا ابد بزنن تو سر هم، هر کس با مدرک و مستند حرف بزنه حرفش رو قبول میکنم

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MTN1917
اصلا با این رمی5 هم دهن نشو، فعلا شخصیت ترول این آدم حکم میکنه که از پورپیرار دفاع کنه و گرنه قبلا حتی در برابر حرفهای مستند پورپیرارهم موضع میگرفت

 

[Ostad]

اگه منظورت من بود که من طرفدار هیچکدوم نیستم، تاریخدانهای ایران هم میتونن تا ابد بزنن تو سر هم، هر کس با مدرک و مستند حرف بزنه حرفش رو قبول میکنم

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good

 

[Serpentine]

watch that posted interview, he also talks about Kianouri, and explains why Tudeh Party hates him. In summary, Tudeh Party is butt-hurt since he has made many communists to resign from that retarded party.

I do agree that Tudeh party was a retarded one, which Pourpirar himself was a part of it, but he has been able to make some sound for his controversial allegations and the thing is that he is not being taken serious by ANY major academic society or historian. If he has been able to reveal such a breathtaking and shocking revelation that Achaemenids were a savage empire or that Sassanids and Parthians didn't exist, why hasn't any other major and 'real' historian agreed with him?

You can't just agree with those parts of his 'research' that you like, which happens to be the ones targeting Persians specifically and disagree with those parts after Islam. A 'real' historian can't write the right thing about some part of history (more than 1100 years from Cyrus to Islam) and suddenly go the wrong way after Islam came to ME.

Here are some good reads answering his claims, you can read them if you have time.

Here's one:

یکی از مهمترین وی‍ژگی‌های نوشتاری ناصر پورپیرار (ناصر بناکننده) وجود تناقض‌های آشکار و عدم همخوانی نوشتار وی با اسناد و منابع تاریخی است. از آنجاییکه وی فاقد هرگونه مدرک دانشگاهی و آشنایی تخصصی با منابع تاریخی و باستانی است، بروز چنین تناقض‌هایی در نوشتار وی چندان دور از انتظار نیست. به عنوان نمونه وی در کتاب برآمدن اسلام، بخش دوم: بررسی اسناد ص ۲۶۹، مدعی می‌شود که «توطئه مشترک یهود و کلیسا و زمین‌داران عرب حریص خراسان و 'بقایای ساسانیان'» باعث فروپاشیبنی امیه شده است؛ و مدتی بعد، ادعا می‌کند که اصلا ساسانیان وجود خارجی نداشته‌اند! در جایی مدعی است که منظور آیه ۱۰۳ سوره نحل، سلمان فارسی است و در جایی دیگر وجود سلمان فارسی را منکر شده و آن را ساخته یهود می‌داند! در جایی اسکندر مقدونی را به خاطر بر انداختن پادشاهی هخامنشیان می‌ستاید و در جای دیگر منکر بروز جنگ بین هخامنشیان و اسکندر مقدونی شده و مدعی است که یهودیان داستان این جنگ را ساخته‌اند تا پوریم پنهان بماند و کسی نفهمد که ایران خالی از سکنه بوده است! از این نمونه، در نوشتار او بسیار است.
وجود دوگانگی و تناقض در نوشته ها و آثار او البته عجیب نیست بلکه در جای جای آن به چشم می خورد چنانکه وی دو هزار سال از تاریخ ایران را(بعد از پوریم!) جعل دانشگاههای آمریکا، انگلیس ، فرانسه و آلمان ( !!) خوانده و وجود سلسله هایی مانند" اشکانی" و" ساسانی" را انکار می کند با این وصف در جای دیگرمی گوید:« «توطئه مشترک یهود و کلیسا و زمین‌داران عرب حریص خراسان و 'بقایای ساسانیان' باعث فروپاشی بنی امیه شده است »(قبلن گفتم)
معلوم نیست بقایای سلسله ای که به زعم ایشان هرگز وجود نداشته چگونه موجبات فروپاشی" بنی امیه" را فراهم ساخته؟؟!​

تالار گفتگوی بیداری اندیشه-ناصر پورپیرار دشمن شماره یک شیعه و ایران!

ذوالقرنین | نقد یاوه‌های ناصر پورپیرار
هزاره‌های باشکوه
ناصر پورپیرار چه می‌گوید؟
جواب سایت محدثه به ناصر پورپیرار - صفحه 3
yoosef - ذوالقرنین -هخامنشی ها -کوروش کبیر - ناصر پورپیرار - پاسخ به پورپیرار

 

[mohsen]

@mohsen به نظر شما هلوکاست واقعیت نداشته ؟ حتی اگرم نداشته ما چرا باید دخالت کنیم؟

به نظر من نه واقعیت نداشته، وقتی میشه یه آدم رو با یه چاقو کشت و بعد هم دفنش کرد برای چی اتاقک گاز درست کنن، خطر مسمومیت نیروهای خودی رو به جون بخرن. برای چی بخوان بسوزنشون اونم در زمان جنگ که آلمان با کمبود سوخت مواجه بود اصلا سوزوندن چند ملیون آدم با این کوره ها از نظر منطقی در اون فاصله زمانی هم غیر ممکن بوده، خیلی وقت پیش ها یه مستند دیدم در مورد به اصطلاح اتاقهای گاز آلمان، اتاقهای دارای پنجره!!! بودن و تحقیقات نشون میداد هیچ اثری از اون نوع گاز که دارای ماندگاری بسیار بالا هست وجود نداشت

در مورد سوال دومتون هم چطور اسراییل میتونه در مورد برنامه هسته ای ما دخالت کنه ولی ما نمیتونیم دروغهای اونا رو به زبون بیاریم
در ثانی دخالت نکردن یعنی حرف روحانی که برگشت گفت من تاریخدان نیستم، تایید کردن هولوکاست توسط ظریف (اونم زمانی که تهدیدهای اونها بیشتر هم شده) یعنی دخالت کردن به سود دشمنمون

 

[Targon]

Whats up Iranians

 

[rmi5]

I do agree that Tudeh party was a retarded one, which Pourpirar himself was a part of it, but he has been able to make some sound for his controversial allegations and the thing is that he is not being taken serious by ANY major academic society or historian. If he has been able to reveal such a breathtaking and shocking revelation that Achaemenids were a savage empire or that Sassanids and Parthians didn't exist, why hasn't any other major and 'real' historian agreed with him?

That is just propaganda against him. Shahbazi, and Kermani who are literally some of the most important alive Iranian historians, have a lot of respect for him, and vice versa. Even Kermani kinda worship him. So, what you have heard about him is not true. Kermani has an interview with persian section of radio france, which if you could find it, he totally defends him.

You can't just agree with those parts of his 'research' that you like, which happens to be the ones targeting Persians specifically and disagree with those parts after Islam. A 'real' historian can't write the right thing about some part of history (more than 1100 years from Cyrus to Islam) and suddenly go the wrong way after Islam came to ME.

I told you before, if he shows proofs, I will accept it, otherwise, I won't. BTW, he is an ultra religious person, and tries to justify islam. even in post islamic part, I don't reject all of his words, but I will reject ones that are not backed by proof. BTW, he is a persian and you cannot claim to call him an anti-persian.

Here are some good reads answering his claims, you can read them if you have time.

Here's one:

تالار گفتگوی بیداری اندیشه-ناصر پورپیرار دشمن شماره یک شیعه و ایران!

ذوالقرنین | نقد یاوه‌های ناصر پورپیرار
هزاره‌های باشکوه
ناصر پورپیرار چه می‌گوید؟
جواب سایت محدثه به ناصر پورپیرار - صفحه 3
yoosef - ذوالقرنین -هخامنشی ها -کوروش کبیر - ناصر پورپیرار - پاسخ به پورپیرار

I will need some time to look into these links

 

[Serpentine]

That is just propaganda against him. Shahbazi, and Kermani who are literally some of the most important alive Iranian historians, have a lot of respect for him, and vice versa. Even Kermani kinda worship him. So, what you have heard about him is not true. Kermani has an interview with persian section of radio france, which if you could find it, he totally defends him.

I assume you mean Abdullah Shahbazi, well this is his take on Pourpirar:

سميعي: ديدگاه‌هاي شما در زمينه ايران باستان چه تناسبي با نظرات آقاي ناصر پورپيرار دارد.

شهبازي: من مطالب آقاي پورپيرار را از آغاز دنبال مي‌کردم. ايشان از نظر نگاه تاريخي و فکري هيچ تجانسي و نسبتي با من ندارد. من براي تاريخ تمدن ايراني، ايران باستان و به‌ويژه تمدن هخامنشي احترام فراوان قائلم و ميراث تمدن ايراني را بسيار مهم و ارزشمند مي‌دانم. مي‌دانيد که واژه «باستان گرايي» را من ساختم ولي منظورم از اين واژه ايجاد تقابل کاذب ميان ايران باستان و ايران اسلامي بود که بنيان تاريخنگاري رسمي دوران پهلوي را شکل مي‌داد. پرستش اغراق‌آميز تصويري خودساخته از ايران باستان، به عنوان حکومت‌هايي متمرکز و توتاليتر، و انطباق آن با حکومت پهلوي به عنوان وارث تاج‌وتخت کيان. اين تصوير را نفي کردم. از سوي ديگر، براي تاريخ ايران در دوره اسلامي نيز ارج فراوان قائلم. اگر کسي جلد اوّل کتاب‌ زرسالاران مرا به دقت خوانده باشد مي‌داند که من اصولاً يهوديت را، به معنايي که امروزه مي‌شناسيم، مولود دوران مسيحي مي‌دانم يعني از دوران يهودا ناسي (يهودا بن شمعون بن جماليل دوّم) است که فقه مدوّن يهودي، به شکل کتاب «ميشنا» که مادر «تلمود» است، شکل گرفت و نهادهاي سياسي جديد يهودي تکوين يافت. يهودا ناسي از سال 192 ميلادي به مدت پنجاه سال رياست يهوديان را به دست داشت و با خاندان حکومتگر سوروس (امپراتوران روم) پيوند نزديک داشت و به تأثير از او بود که خاندان سوروس به آئيني گرايش يافت که آميزه‌اي از پاگانيسم رومي و يهوديت بود. پيوند آلکساندر سوروس، امپراتور روم، با يهودان اسي در حدي بود که سوروس از سوي دشمنانش به «آرکي سيناگوگوس» (رئيس کنيسه) معروف شود. اين دوران مقارن است با فروپاشي دولت اشکاني و صعود دولت ساساني و قرن‌ها با دوره هخامنشي فاصله دارد.

بنابراين، در زمان هخامنشيان يهوديان (بني‌اسرائيل) جامعه‌اي کوچک و کم‌اهميت، مانند ساير جوامع شرق مديترانه چون کنعاني‌ها (فنيقي‌ها)، بودند و اصلا در قد و قواره‌اي نبودند که بر تمدني بزرگ چون ايران هخامنشي تأثير گذارند. افسانه استر و مردخاي هم فقط يک افسانه است. قدمت کتاب استر به حوالي قرن اوّل ميلادي مي‌رسد. استر واقعيت تاريخي نيست و ملکه ايران و همسر خشايارشا نبود. ساخته يهوديت جديد است و البته بسيار نژادپرستانه.

به اين ترتيب، آقاي پورپيرار جنجال عجيبي ايجاد کرد و فضايي پديد آورد که راه بر هر گونه نقادي جدّي و علمي تاريخنگاري ايران باستان بسته شد. او فعاليت خود در اين زمينه را چند ماه پس از مصاحبه مفصل من با آقاي محمدرضا ارشاد آغاز کرد. اين مصاحبه از 17 تا 21 فروردين 1379 در چهار قسمت يک صفحه‌اي در روزنامه انتخاب منتشر شد.

And about Kermani, please post some info about him, don't know him very well.

I told you before, if he shows proofs, I will accept it, otherwise, I won't. BTW, he is an ultra religious person, and tries to justify islam. even in post islamic part, I don't reject all of his words, but I will reject ones that are not backed by proof. BTW, he is a persian and you cannot claim to call him an anti-persian.

Since when being a Persian makes you a 'Pro-Persian'?
I remember a while ago, when we were discussing about Bakhtiaris' protests, you said it's no surprise that traitors exist among Azeris (referring to Kamal Tabrizi), so can't we generalize it?
Being a Persian doesn't mean you are a sane person or an unbiased one.

I really don't care about this guy since he has no say in any important academic society and he doesn't have even a university degree, but I just wanted to say that his allegations are not unanswered. I can post tons of articles, videos or books here proving/mentioning or praising the pre-Islamic history of Iran. But it has no point.

I do agree that there has been some stupid exaggerations in our history (exactly just like other countries and empires), that's why I believe all extremist Pans (Pan-Persians, Pan Arabs, Pan Turks and etc) can go to hell, because they do nothing except manipulating the history and flaming and dividing people based on ethnicity.

 

[rmi5]

I assume you mean Abdullah Shahbazi, well this is his take on Pourpirar:
And about Kermani, please post some info about him, don't know him very well.

Since when being a Persian makes you a 'Pro-Persian'?
I remember a while ago, when we were discussing about Bakhtiaris' protests, you said it's no surprise that traitors exist among Azeris (referring to Kamal Tabrizi), so can't we generalize it?
Being a Persian doesn't mean you are a sane person or an unbiased one.

I really don't care about this guy since he has no say in any important academic society and he doesn't have even a university degree, but I just wanted to say that his allegations are not unanswered. I can post tons of articles, videos or books here proving/mentioning or praising the pre-Islamic history of Iran. But it has no point.

I do agree that there has been some stupid exaggerations in our history (exactly just like other countries and empires), that's why I believe all extremist Pans (Pan-Persians, Pan Arabs, Pan Turks and etc) can go to hell, because they do nothing except manipulating the history and flaming and dividing people based on ethnicity.

Actually we have more than one Shahbazi in this field, and people sometimes gets confused about them. I will send you their interview in youtube if I find them. You may also know Ghias aabaadi as well. he is an ultra pan persian, but he still has respect for Pourpirar. They are many like these guys.Anyway, about being a persian, at least it voids the argument that he is an ethnic arab who is a hardcore Pan-Arab, which it claimed by some users here. Anyway, I have worked on Cuneiform some years ago, when I was in high school, and middle school, and then this experience helped me a lot to understand that most of the quotes about those era are simply BS. since it is literally impossible to understand those languages, and they use very stupid and inaccurate ways to just guess what is written. So, I just laugh very hard when people tell me that Cyrus has said this or that. Some languages are readable, though, like ancient greek, but many of the remaining greek writings that are found in Iran, contradict what Iranologists have told us. There are tons of examples for it. I can mention you many examples of them.

 

[Nomad16]

Whats up Iranians

you jump in middle of battlefield not a good time bro

 

[KingMamba]

Actually we have more than one Shahbazi in this field, and people sometimes gets confused about them. I will send you their interview in youtube if I find them. You may also know Ghias aabaadi as well. he is an ultra pan persian, but he still has respect for Pourpirar. They are many like these guys.Anyway, about being a persian, at least it voids the argument that he is an ethnic arab who is a hardcore Pan-Arab, which it claimed by some users here. Anyway, I have worked on Cuneiform some years ago, when I was in high school, and middle school, and then this experience helped me a lot to understand that most of the quotes about those era are simply BS. since it is literally impossible to understand those languages, and they use very stupid and inaccurate ways to just guess what is written. So, I just laugh very hard when people tell me that Cyrus has said this or that. Some languages are readable, though, like ancient greek, but many of the remaining greek writings that are found in Iran, contradict what Iranologists have told us. There are tons of examples for it. I can mention you many examples of them.

Ooh please do sounds interesting lol.

 

[rmi5]

 

[rmi5]

yek baar e dige hamleh be facebook.
in baar be facebook e Daniel Davari hamleh kardand. ghablan ha saali yek baar hamleh mikardan, alaan har hafteh be yek jaa hamle mikonand.
فوتبالی‌ترین | برنامه نود دوشنبه
haalaa baaz biyaayd dobaareh maaleh bekeshid.

 

[Nomad16]

yek baar e dige hamleh be facebook.
in baar be facebook e Daniel Davari hamleh kardand. ghablan ha saali yek baar hamleh mikardan, alaan har hafteh be yek jaa hamle mikonand.
فوتبالی‌ترین | برنامه نود دوشنبه
haalaa baaz biyaayd dobaareh maaleh bekeshid.

man nafahmidam in mardom che margeshune chera inkar roo mikonan kheli dust darn fosh bedan makhsusan age taraf sastesh behesh narese yani to khiyabun in chiz ha roo nemibini ha ama to fazaye majazi pore key mikhan adam beshan malum nist be khatere nahayat 100 hezar nafar 80 million zire soal miran !

 

[Serpentine]

man nafahmidam in mardom che margeshune chera inkar roo mikonan kheli dust darn fosh bedan makhsusan age taraf sastesh behesh narese yani to khiyabun in chiz ha roo nemibini ha ama to fazaye majazi pore key mikhan adam beshan malum nist be khatere nahayat 100 hezar nafar 80 million zire soal miran !

Moteasefane ye aghaliate oghdei darim ke tuie internet khub sedashun shenide mishe. In ye bimarie khod kam Bini hast ke yek Adam hamchin kari mikone.