Iranian Chill Thread

[Cthulhu]

@haman10

https://tinyurl.com/y7d5fpd5

 

[TheImmortal]

Islam has 1000 years history in Iran as religion of majority. Zoroastrianism has been 2500 years religion of the majority of Iranians.

Islam will fade away from Iran and central asia, this proces is somehow slowed by conservative politicians who will soon die of old age. Nationalists will wake their place.

Even if Nationalism takes over Iran, it will not take over the Middle East. That is because for decades Saudi’s and Persian Gulf Arabs used the only tool in their toolbox to control the Sunni world which was religion.Many sunni’s are tribal and thus identify via their ancestral tribe not some borders made up by Western Powers less than 200 years ago.

The last nationalistic Arab countries were Syria and Egypt back in the 60’s. Nationalism is gone from the Arab world. Arabs view themselves either by their tribe or religion sect. That is because of the Persian gulf Monarchs trying to keep control over the Sunni Arab world in the only way they could.

Now Iran is different as they have long been nationalistic and identified via their race over their religion. But Islam will still reign in Iran because Zoroastrianism is long gone from
That society.

Virtually no religious text of Zoroastrianism remain. The religion is an ancient religion that has very few followers around the world currently. To expect Iranians to suddenly pick up Zoroastrianism as their religion is quite frankly a joke.

 

[Arab Sword]

Wake up arabs hate you and you can't fight them if you believe in their religion you have to return to your roots


A war which khomeni refused to stop it

Why “Arabs hate you”?
If Arabs do hate Iran, who is Iran supporting in Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain, and others, aren’t they Arabs?
Also, Zorastianism is not Persian religion, there are non-Persian Zorastians. Prior to Islam much of Iraq Arabs & Arabian peninsula were Zorastians.

Also, lets assume Arabs hate Iran, how come this legislate Israel?
You are implicitly condemning Israel. It is like you say : Israel is a crime. But only if ‘Arabs’ loved us we should consider it a crime, but when ‘Arabs’ dont then we should consider what is originally a crime, we consider it a right thing only as a retaliation on ‘Arabs’.

Excuse me if your morals are replaceable, what I know is : a criminal is always a criminal, no matter your selfish standpoint of the victim. Pure selfishness.

 

[07_SeppDietrich]

Wake up arabs hate you and you can't fight them if you believe in their religion you have to return to your roots


A war which khomeni refused to stop it

Lmao i bet Houthis and Hezbollah which is Arabs hate Iran!

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

Now Iran is different as they have long been nationalistic and identified via their race over their religion.

Virtually no religious text of Zoroastrianism remain. The religion is an ancient religion that has very few followers around the world currently. To expect Iranians to suddenly pick up Zoroastrianism as their religion is quite frankly a joke.

25% of texts are available and many second sources. Hinduism is even older or as old as zoroastrianism.... 1.2 billion people follow this ancient religion. So both arguments are not really strong.
However I don't expect that Iranians suddenly become zoroastrian. They're to stupid/uninformed for such revolutionary changes. They are now in a fase of identity crisis. Next fase will be nationalism. Therefore there is no need to convert to zoroastrianism. Just let islam fade away/weaken in Iran, nationalism will follow.

 

[Arab Sword]

25% of texts are available and many second sources. Hinduism is even older or as old as zoroastrianism.... 1.2 billion people follow this ancient religion. So both arguments are not really strong.
However I don't expect that Iranians suddenly become zoroastrian. They're to stupid/uninformed for such revolutionary changes. They are now in a fase of identity crisis. Next fase will be nationalism. Therefore there is no need to convert to zoroastrianism. Just let islam fade away/weaken in Iran, nationalism will follow.

The time for faith changing has longly ended. If you think a human group living in post-modernity state will change its faith then -with all my respects to you- its an illusion.

Barzani government tried to convert Kurds to zorastian religion for over 20 years, tell me now how many Kurds have converted? Kurdistan is still & will stay a muslim country.

Saudi funds billions to preach Islam in poor African countries, could they make a significant change in demography, other than converting individuals?

Anyone that dreams of shifting a modernized human group’s faith, for his/her illusion ancient might, will likely stay dreaming this fantasy to the end of his/her life.

Moreover, Islam now plays a big role in Iranian identity, and Iran integrated fairly well in Islam’s identity.

 

[Arab Sword]

Even if Nationalism takes over Iran, it will not take over the Middle East. That is because for decades Saudi’s and Persian Gulf Arabs used the only tool in their toolbox to control the Sunni world which was religion.Many sunni’s are tribal and thus identify via their ancestral tribe not some borders made up by Western Powers less than 200 years ago.

The last nationalistic Arab countries were Syria and Egypt back in the 60’s. Nationalism is gone from the Arab world. Arabs view themselves either by their tribe or religion sect. That is because of the Persian gulf Monarchs trying to keep control over the Sunni Arab world in the only way they could.

Now Iran is different as they have long been nationalistic and identified via their race over their religion. But Islam will still reign in Iran because Zoroastrianism is long gone from
That society.

Virtually no religious text of Zoroastrianism remain. The religion is an ancient religion that has very few followers around the world currently. To expect Iranians to suddenly pick up Zoroastrianism as their religion is quite frankly a joke.

Arabs did not define themselves by tribe. Tribes existed in all the Oriental world including Iran.
However, you are right that 200 years ago the people defined themselves based on their religion, even Shiites, Durzies and Alawites perceived themselves mainly as Muslims. Including Iran. There was no such thing as the Nation-State in the oriental mind, it was a fruit of hundreds years of Western philosophy.

Race and ethnicity was not relevant. But after the Western conquest and Western infiltration to the East, all the people were influenced by these thoughts and region suddenly torn apart; kurds, turks, persians, arabs, azers, and then even sub ethnicities.

I think there must be a way to connect West Asia & North Africa to settle these tensions.

 

[yavar]

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

Arabs did not define themselves by tribe. Tribes existed in all the Oriental world including Iran.
However, you are right that 200 years ago the people defined themselves based on their religion, even Shiites, Durzies and Alawites perceived themselves mainly as Muslims. Including Iran. There was no such thing as the Nation-State in the oriental mind, it was a fruit of hundreds years of Western philosophy.

Race and ethnicity was not relevant. But after the Western conquest and Western infiltration to the East, all the people were influenced by these thoughts and region suddenly torn apart; kurds, turks, persians, arabs, azers, and then even sub ethnicities.

I think there must be a way to connect West Asia & North Africa to settle these tensions.

Iran is an exception to this rule, it was a kind of multi-cultural country, defined people, religion, borders, government. But this is off-topic, i've written about this in my discussions with @Full Moon

The time for faith changing has longly ended. If you think a human group living in post-modernity state will change its faith then -with all my respects to you- its an illusion.

Barzani government tried to convert Kurds to zorastian religion for over 20 years, tell me now how many Kurds have converted? Kurdistan is still & will stay a muslim country.

Saudi funds billions to preach Islam in poor African countries, could they make a significant change in demography, other than converting individuals?

Anyone that dreams of shifting a modernized human group’s faith, for his/her illusion ancient might, will likely stay dreaming this fantasy to the end of his/her life.

Moreover, Islam now plays a big role in Iranian identity, and Iran integrated fairly well in Islam’s identity.

I've never preached for Iranians to change their religion. This is indeed something that does not fit current world. People should be free in their choice of religion.
However state could define/form the identity of a country, based on the historical core values of the country, but people should not be obligated to follow that view. This is my idea about how a future Iranian government should be.

 

[yavar]

Al-Jazeera arabic report and aired images of Yemen resistance force Ansarullah still in control of al-Hadida airport and city

 

[skyshadow]

https://financialtribune.com/articl...-no-obstacles-to-iran-military-bases-in-syria

 

[Arab Sword]

Iran is an exception to this rule, it was a kind of multi-cultural country, defined people, religion, borders, government. But this is off-topic, i've written about this in my discussions with @Full Moon


I've never preached for Iranians to change their religion. This is indeed something that does not fit current world. People should be free in their choice of religion.
However state could define/form the identity of a country, based on the historical core values of the country, but people should not be obligated to follow that view. This is my idea about how a future Iranian government should be.

I respect you but I disagree with your opinion. Our brothers in Iran seem to forget that there are like idk 5 ethnicities calling for independence in Iran?
Iran is a defined country for the Persian ethnicity, but not much for the Kurds and Azers and Balluchs and Arabs.
You even implicitly prove what i say; when you call for returning to Zorastianism, for example do you think the Balluches will say “go for it!!”, do it represents their history?
So you are implicitly stating that Iran is a homeland for one particular ethnicity, but maybe occupation for others, who knows?

Which refers that Iran -which I love and respect very much- , like others in the region, failed with the identity and ethnicity problem.

Face it, Nationalism is a failed project here, the only solution would be the region to unite.

 

[yavar]

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

@Arab Sword

I respect you but I disagree with your opinion. Our brothers in Iran seem to forget that there are like idk 5 ethnicities calling for independence in Iran?

No, we don't have any polls on that and we have had no war over ethnicity like ex-yugoslavia.

Iran is a defined country for the Persian ethnicity, but not much for the Kurds and Azers and Balluchs and Arabs.

Well Kurds and Baluchis are Iranians and Azeris are considered as Iranians if we define who's an Iranian. Arabs and Turkmens are not Iranian from ethnic point of view, but by nationality they're.

You even implicitly prove what i say; when you call for returning to Zorastianism, for example do you think the Balluches will say “go for it!!”, do it represents their history?

Baluchis, Pashtuns and even a part of "persians" don't have much information about their past, due to Islamic propaganda in todays Iran. I don't call anyone to return to zoroastrianism, people should be free to choose their faith. Maybe nowadays the baluch will find such suggestion offensive or strange, but we don't know how people think over 50 or 100 years. Things are changing fast, indeed at the expense of islamism.

So you are implicitly stating that Iran is a homeland for one particular ethnicity, but maybe occupation for others, who knows?

Iran is the homeland of Ethno-linguistic group called the Iranians. The character of the country should stay like this just like how Israel does not accept the jewish character of Israel to be changed. Our interest and policies should be based on the interest of Iranians and nothing else.

Which refers that Iran -which I love and respect very much- , like others in the region, failed with the identity and ethnicity problem.

?

Face it, Nationalism is a failed project here, the only solution would be the region to unite.

Nationalism failed in some places in the region, but not in Iran. Everytime nationalism was implemented in Iran, it brought us forward. Reza Shah was the last example. Anti-nationalist movements like vilayat-e-faqih/islamism or communism have caused destruction in the last 40 years. So there is no other option for Iran except nationalism. We already are experimenting 40 years with internationalism. The system of Iran is a mixture of Islam and communism.

 

[skyshadow]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/world/middleeast/israel-iran-spying-segev.html

Israel charges ex-minister Gonen Segev with spying for Iran

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44520850