Iranian Chill Thread

[haman10]

Sorry for the delay. I was busy and your question is very complicated and needed a proper response. I will write in English so that others might find the response useful too.

We have to know the history and socio-political factors that make cold hearted mass murderer out of people. We can not form simplistic and moronic views on such phenomenon without knowing the depth of the issue. For instance, how Hitler becomes Hitler and mass murders tens of millions of people? How Stalin a mediocre and frail person manages to drive back Lenin and take over Soviet Union, causing one of the biggest mass murders of human history? We can not go on and answer these questions without knowing the history.

The group that has caused this latest mass murder is actually a follower of Deobandism. Almost all the horrible things that are happening in South Asia and attributed to "Muslims" are actually the doings of Deobandis. As you might also know Taleban were also Deobandis. So are the scumbags in Iranian Baluchistan. Now Deobandism has a very peculiar history shrouded in lots of secrecy. We don't exactly know what motivated its founding fathers to make it and for what purpose, but we know that they did. And boy, they were successful. But I can give you a condensed version of their history so that you can go and understand these people and the phenomena they cause better.

It all starts with Indian rebellion of 1857. What the Indians themselves call "Jang e Azadi e 1857". You see, at the height of British Raj (the name of the colonial government of India under the monarch of England), there were only one thousand British military officers in India. These one thousands officers from the rank of General to lieutenant ruled the whole of India (todays' India, Pakistan and Bangladesh). The rest of British army was actually made up of Indian soldiers who took their orders from British officers. This Indian army had been created by British government, based on the ethnicity, race and caste of Indians. For example British army would almost never hire a Brahman (an upper Hindu caste) because they were seen as too proud and unruly. They would hire say Punjabi Sikh, because they were seen docile yet brave enough.

But because of a multitude of factors from nationalism to freedom seeking feelings of Indians, a rebellion happened in the army of British Raj among these ordinary soldiers which were called "Sepoy", which is Anglicized of Farsi's Sepahi, meaning soldier. This rebellion spread throughout India and went beyond the barracks into civilian population, and it was nearly successful, threatening to wipe out the British presence in South Asia with certain massacre of all British people living luxurious lives there. But the bravery of British officers, their iron command system and the resolute will of the British Generals saved the day. You have to remember that these were not the days of Air support so the British officers were on their own as any help from England would have taken months to arrive probably even a year.

But two things saved the British without which the locals would have over-run them, no matter the bravery of British officer core. One was the railway that British had built at great cost, which then allowed the movement of loyal British troops and thus giving them mobility to mass troops and encircle the mutineers. And the second was the recent invention of telegraph, which was the top most technology of its time and that British Raj had also implemented it throughout India at great cost just before 1857. This allowed faster information processing by British military command than the leaders of mutiny were capable of coping with. The mutiny failed, at great human cost. But British learned a lesson. The greatest lesson that a colonial power can ever learn. That is to rule over a colony effectively, the most precious tools are socio-political tools. So they implemented alot of these in the days after this mutiny from categorizing the people of subcontinent into loyal feudals who were bestowed with land, power and money/disallowing education, land and wealth for disloyal tribes to more darker methods such as religious manipulations.

After this incident, Hindus were prioritized to receive secular education and were increasingly hired in bureaucracy of British Raj. Then a vast university sized, Sunni learning center was built, by British civil engineers to teach Sunnis. This university is located in Deoband, and Reza Shah's Tehran University or Amir Kabir's Dar-ul-Fonon dwarf in comparison to it both in beauty and massiveness. Out of this place a brand of Sunnism came out that is called deobandi. During the British Raj, this place used to take Muslim students from all over India, with fully paid scholarship for its several years of study (its policy was zero fee). It was a boarding university, meaning that during the time of the study, the pupil was fully committed, living on university campus and following a grilling and no nonsense schedule of studies. When these scholars were sent back to their villages and cities throughout India, they were appointed "Imams" to mosques and received salaries and food rations from the nearby British army cantonment.

These deobandis were the most loyal subjects that British Raj had among Muslim population of India. They pacified the population, and issued fatwas favorable to British Raj. To the extent that when the British government decided to breakup the British Raj and partition India, the deobandis were the only group in India which opposed it. They preferred to remain British subjects. When they saw that the die is cast and British were about to leave, they opposed the creation of Pakistan, preferring Hindu rule. But British abandoned them and created Pakistan over their objections.

When Pakistan was built, understandably, there was little sympathy for deobandis in this new state. They were almost seen as traitors and they were kept at fringes of political and military power of the new state. This changed during the Bengal uprising. During that uprising the Pakistan army was left alone fighting its own population. The only group that offered help to kill Bengalis was the deobandis. This was their chance to prove that they were "patriotic" Pakistanis. But these efforts failed and Pakistan partitioned in 1971. When West Pakistan became today's Pakistan, they were a defeated and humiliated nation. The political and military elite of Pakistan were in search of giving a new meaning to the demoralized nation of Pakistan. This new version came in the form of a harder Utopian Islam, predominantly deobandi version. Deobandis offered their services to Pakistan's military to unify the broken nation. This almost reached epic proportion under General Zia-ul-Haq's rule who elevated the deobandis from the fringes of political power into the center of the nations power politics. He needed them for his secret war that he was waging on Soviet Union in Afghanistan on the order of United States. In order to make deobandi even more hardcore and capable of withstanding Soviet military, Wahabi/Salafi preachers were imported from Saudi Arabia and these preachers upgraded the deobandis into a monstrous war ideology, which was fiercely anti-communist and anti-Shia. I guess you can figure it out yourself why.

After the Soviet withdrawal, Pakistan thought that it could use this same ideology to take Kashmir from India. But the Indian army in Kashmir did not budge as the Soviet military had in Afghanistan. During this time, a cold war of sorts also happened between Pakistan and Iran each supporting opposite groups in Afghanistan which resulted in Iranian diplomats being hanged in front of Iranian embassy when Taleban took over the embassy. Taleban were the ultimate deobandi force that ever came to existence. For a short while. Until, 9/11 happened. The monster had gone the full circle, hitting New York.

The rest you must know well. US went in to Afghanistan promising to hunt down each one of them "dead or alive". Pakistan till 2008 tried its best to atleast partially protect Taleban elements for later use in Afghanistan/Kashmir. But then the monster again went full circle and had started to hit Pakistan. Still Pakistan tried to protect them, since this ideology had become so central to "unity" of Pakistan and its strategic power, believing that this is just a misunderstanding and the Taleban will soon realize that, Pakistan is their master. But by 2013, it became clear in upper echelon of Pakistan's military structure that this was not a misunderstanding anymore and that Taleban had truly gone full circle, so a plan was put in motion for their complete termination despite strenuous objections of deobandis. Whether Pakistan army will ever be able to finish them is up for debate. But even if they do, new groups will emerge. Since the ideology and sympathies for this ideology is deep rooted in Pakistan's society now.

Now with this history in our hand, you will have the minimum requirement to understand the answer to your question. First of all, you should not underestimate the dark desires of humans, specially those arising from hatred and sense of being back-stabbed. From 1970, Pakistani army has been buddy buddy with this ideology and posing as its true friend. When in 2007, Pakistan army decided that it has had enough of deobandi friendship and attacked their flagship mosque in Islamabad as a warning to deobandis that their special relationship was over, the deobandis felt they had been betrayed and back-stabbed by Pakistan. Since deobandis always saw that Pakistan army eventually some day will become a deobandi army. It was too much for them. It was the second time that they were being betrayed. First by the British and now by Pakistan. So they declared war on Pakistan army.

These kids are just the latest causality of this war. A war that is going on in almost every territory of Pakistan nowadays. The reason, that the kids were targeted is rather technical. You see, Pakistan army is quite a powerful army and relatively well equipped, so taking it head-on is suicidal with no tactical benefit. But killing the children of Pakistan army officers and their teacher wives, drives the message right into the heart of Pakistan army. So attacking a school that caters to the children of personnel of Pakistan army becomes their plan. The choice of target is of course, inhuman and despicable but from the view point of deobandis who practice Takfirism, it is acceptable, since they sincerely believe that they are killing kafer, their wives and their illicitly begotten zena-zadeh children. Their enemies. From their ideology's point of view, Pakistan army has become mortad and thus a fair game along with their families.

Deobandis are searching for an identity, they never had. For a religion, they never had. For a country they never had. For a Utopia that is never possible. They were just a tool. Created and used. Who and for what purpose if at all, they are now being used, is a matter for future historians to ponder over their cup of coffee.

And rest assured, this is not the first or the last tragedy in human history. Take the example of female Chinese and Korean children who were used as sex slaves by Japanese army during the World War II. Each had to cater near to couple of hundred men each day. From morning to night, the soldiers were standing in line, and these little girls used to have a small break for lunch only (usually 10 minutes). Refusal meant torture to death or a quick dispatch to the dreaded and horrifying Unit 731 of Japanese Army for the termination as a test subject. After the war those who survived had told their liberators that they had lost all feelings, emotions, humanity and everything else. This is what happens when there is no religion. And that is what happens when we have "religion".

Wow !! man , U have done some serious research on these scums !!

Tnx for the detailed post . do i have the permission to copy paste it ?

 

[Azizam]

I think the opposite is true. TYT is one of the few news outlets that are truly indpendent. They get their funds from the viewer instead of rich politicians or lobbist. Also I wouldn't call Cenk a failure. He has the biggest internet show on the internet and starting to get more popular with the day. Cenk even did mainstream media but he got in a fight over him being too outspoken and angering people at Washington and he got kicked out.

He wasn't a failure but now he's becoming a failure because of his excessive sympathy towards islamists. If you watch his videos you will notice that after each attack by Islamists, Cenk comes to whitewash them but he criticises the right wing ideologies. Each and every ideology/party/individual should be criticised according to the threat it/he/she poses but cenk is just trying to create a bigger picture out of threats don't even exist while igboring the real threat. There's no doubt that the islamism is the most destructive ideology that currently exists. He keeps saying that religion or ideology should be kept away whenever there is an attack happens but for instance when some woman posed with a bible and a gun he was going on a long rant against her and the ideologies she represents. She should be criticised but if she and the ideologies she represent are criticised then surely the islamists and the ideologies they represent should be criticised too. The fact there are many muslim-majority countries that punish apostates by death alone is just good enough of a reason to consider that there is a huge problem with islamism. Also he is someone who talks againt generalisation yet he brands entire Texas as a sea full of craziness. So you see the hypocrisy? I am not saying that he's a secret islamist but he is more like another liberal who works for the trends and refuse to go against the tide.

 

[IRAN 1802]

Me too.

Thanks brother, I am too.

 

[atatwolf]

He wasn't a failure but now he's becoming a failure because of his excessive sympathy towards islamists. If you watch his videos you will notice that after each attack by Islamists, Cenk comes to whitewash them but he criticises the right wing ideologies. Each and every ideology/party/individual should be criticised according to the threat it/he/she poses but cenk is just trying to create a bigger picture out of threats don't even exist while igboring the real threat. There's no doubt that the islamism is the most destructive ideology that currently exists. He keeps saying that religion or ideology should be kept away whenever there is an attack happens but for instance when some woman posed with a bible and a gun he was going on a long rant against her and the ideologies she represents. She should be criticised but if she and the ideologies she represent are criticised then surely the islamists and the ideologies they represent should be criticised too. The fact there are many muslim-majority countries that punish apostates by death alone is just good enough of a reason to consider that there is a huge problem with islamism. Also he is someone who talks againt generalisation yet he brands entire Texas as a sea full of craziness. So you see the hypocrisy? I am not saying that he's a secret islamist but he is more like another liberal who works for the trends and refuse to go against the tide.

He doesn't have sympathy towards Islamists. He just underlines that extremists are only small part of Islam community which is 1.5 billion of the world population. Actually what you are trying to do is more dangerous. You want to categorize all the Muslims as terrorists. Cenk is agnostic so he wouldn't have anything in common with islamist anyway. I think people get angry at him who are islamophobic. They want Cenk to be like the other main stream media who are bashing and blaming all the muslims for what a couple of idiotic extremist do.

 

[Azizam]

He doesn't have sympathy towards Islamists. He just underlines that extremists are only small part of Islam community which is 1.5 billion of the world population. Actually what you are trying to do is more dangerous. You want to categorize all the Muslims as terrorists. Cenk is agnostic so he wouldn't have anything in common with islamist anyway. I think people get angry at him who are islamophobic. They want Cenk to be like the other main stream media who are bashing and blaming all the muslims for what a couple of idiotic extremist do.

I am not saying that all muslims are terrorists and I am also not saying that extremists are in minority. Aprrently not. The fact that there more than 10 muslim-majority countries that have ultra ridiculous concepts like issuing death penalty for apostates imposed on STATE LEVEL shows that the extremists are not in minority whereas the number non-muslim countries that have such laws is zero. There are certain rights of people that should not be taken away under any reason and some/most muslim majority countries violate them and that should be criticised, especially if muslim want others to treat them fairly in non-muslim countries. This is a simple fact that many people forget.

 

[rmi5]

He doesn't have sympathy towards Islamists. He just underlines that extremists are only small part of Islam community which is 1.5 billion of the world population. Actually what you are trying to do is more dangerous. You want to categorize all the Muslims as terrorists. Cenk is agnostic so he wouldn't have anything in common with islamist anyway. I think people get angry at him who are islamophobic. They want Cenk to be like the other main stream media who are bashing and blaming all the muslims for what a couple of idiotic extremist do.

There are some facts here.
1. There are some ultra right wings who want to get rid of muslims in their own countries
2. There are some islamofacsist who are really a dangerous breed and cannot coexist with any people. They are not a minority, eitehr.
3. There are people like Reza Aslan and Cenk who want to counter the first group, but what they do is apologizing for the 2nd group, and rationalizing their inhumane acts, and trying to show muslims as victims which is a hilarious BS lie.

What I believe is that the muslim community wordwide, needs to understand that there are many inhumane laws in their religion which avoids them from peaceful coexistence with others. So, they need to forget about these laws, and don't take their religion seriously anymore, like what Christians did after the dark ages of Europe.

 

[Daneshmand]

Wow !! man , U have done some serious research on these scums !!

Tnx for the detailed post . do i have the permission to copy paste it ?

Sure. You can copy and paste it as much as you want.

 

[atatwolf]

I am not saying that all muslims are terrorists and I am also not saying that extremists are in minority. Aprrently not. The fact that there more than 10 muslim-majority countries that have ultra ridiculous concepts like issuing death penalty for apostates imposed on STATE LEVEL shows that the extremists are not in minority whereas the number non-muslim countries that have such laws is zero. There are certain rights of people that should not be taken away under any reason and some/most muslim majority countries violate them and that should be criticised, especially if muslim want others to treat them fairly in non-muslim countries. This is a simple fact that many people forget.

Those idiotic muslim dictators are put there by westerners. I only see you making excuses to believe your own narrative.

There are some facts here.
1. There are some ultra right wings who want to get rid of muslims in their own countries
2. There are some islamofacsist who are really a dangerous breed and cannot coexist with any people. They are not a minority, eitehr.
3. There are people like Reza Aslan and Cenk who want to counter the first group, but what they do is apologizing for the 2nd group, and rationalizing their inhumane acts, and trying to show muslims as victims which is a hilarious BS lie.

What I believe is that the muslim community wordwide, needs to understand that there are many inhumane laws in their religion which avoids them from peaceful coexistence with others. So, they need to forget about these laws, and don't take their religion seriously anymore, like what Christians did after the dark ages of Europe.

I think Cenk never appologized for islamofascist. I could be wrong though. For example in this last video, he condemned the islamofascist.

 

[rmi5]

I think Cenk never appologized for islamofascist. I could be wrong though. For example in this last video, he condemned the islamofascist.

Let me disagree with you my bro, a good propagandist would always try to say 10 positives and 10 mild negatives to make him sound fair and unbiassed, and never says 20 strong positives in favor of something. Otherwise, he would be easily exposed like PressTV, Al-Jazeera, ...
Whether intentionally, or non-intentionally, he and Reza Aslan are apologizing islamo-fascists

 

[atatwolf]

Let me disagree with you my bro, a good propagandist would always try to say 10 positives and 10 mild negatives to make him sound fair and unbiassed, and never says 20 strong positives in favor of something. Otherwise, he would be easily exposed like PressTV, Al-Jazeera, ...
Whether intentionally, or non-intentionally, he and Reza Aslan are apologizing islamo-fascists

Ok, if you say so.

 

[Azizam]

Those idiotic muslim dictators are put there by westerners. I only see you making excuses to believe your own narrative.


I think Cenk never appologized for islamofascist. I could be wrong though. For example in this last video, he condemned the islamofascist.

Read what @rmi5 said. And no I don't have any narrative. For me it should be either equal rights for everyone or equal persecution.

 

[rmi5]

Read what @rmi5 said. And no I don't have any narrative. For me it should be either equal rights for everyone or equal persecution.

What do you mean by equal persecution?

 

[KingMamba]

He had some connections to Aljazeera, I think @KingMamba knows about it.
Every media has its own thick agenda. It's stupid to think that media are freely and for god's sakes showing us the non-distorted honest news. TYT is no exception.

No he has no connection to them. He left current tv after aljazeera bought them.

Sorry for the delay. I was busy and your question is very complicated and needed a proper response. I will write in English so that others might find the response useful too.

We have to know the history and socio-political factors that make cold hearted mass murderer out of people. We can not form simplistic and moronic views on such phenomenon without knowing the depth of the issue. For instance, how Hitler becomes Hitler and mass murders tens of millions of people? How Stalin a mediocre and frail person manages to drive back Lenin and take over Soviet Union, causing one of the biggest mass murders of human history? We can not go on and answer these questions without knowing the history.

The group that has caused this latest mass murder is actually a follower of Deobandism. Almost all the horrible things that are happening in South Asia and attributed to "Muslims" are actually the doings of Deobandis. As you might also know Taleban were also Deobandis. So are the scumbags in Iranian Baluchistan. Now Deobandism has a very peculiar history shrouded in lots of secrecy. We don't exactly know what motivated its founding fathers to make it and for what purpose, but we know that they did. And boy, they were successful. But I can give you a condensed version of their history so that you can go and understand these people and the phenomena they cause better.

It all starts with Indian rebellion of 1857. What the Indians themselves call "Jang e Azadi e 1857". You see, at the height of British Raj (the name of the colonial government of India under the monarch of England), there were only one thousand British military officers in India. These one thousands officers from the rank of General to lieutenant ruled the whole of India (todays' India, Pakistan and Bangladesh). The rest of British army was actually made up of Indian soldiers who took their orders from British officers. This Indian army had been created by British government, based on the ethnicity, race and caste of Indians. For example British army would almost never hire a Brahman (an upper Hindu caste) because they were seen as too proud and unruly. They would hire say Punjabi Sikh, because they were seen docile yet brave enough.

But because of a multitude of factors from nationalism to freedom seeking feelings of Indians, a rebellion happened in the army of British Raj among these ordinary soldiers which were called "Sepoy", which is Anglicized of Farsi's Sepahi, meaning soldier. This rebellion spread throughout India and went beyond the barracks into civilian population, and it was nearly successful, threatening to wipe out the British presence in South Asia with certain massacre of all British people living luxurious lives there. But the bravery of British officers, their iron command system and the resolute will of the British Generals saved the day. You have to remember that these were not the days of Air support so the British officers were on their own as any help from England would have taken months to arrive probably even a year.

But two things saved the British without which the locals would have over-run them, no matter the bravery of British officer core. One was the railway that British had built at great cost, which then allowed the movement of loyal British troops and thus giving them mobility to mass troops and encircle the mutineers. And the second was the recent invention of telegraph, which was the top most technology of its time and that British Raj had also implemented it throughout India at great cost just before 1857. This allowed faster information processing by British military command than the leaders of mutiny were capable of coping with. The mutiny failed, at great human cost. But British learned a lesson. The greatest lesson that a colonial power can ever learn. That is to rule over a colony effectively, the most precious tools are socio-political tools. So they implemented alot of these in the days after this mutiny from categorizing the people of subcontinent into loyal feudals who were bestowed with land, power and money/disallowing education, land and wealth for disloyal tribes to more darker methods such as religious manipulations.

After this incident, Hindus were prioritized to receive secular education and were increasingly hired in bureaucracy of British Raj. Then a vast university sized, Sunni learning center was built, by British civil engineers to teach Sunnis. This university is located in Deoband, and Reza Shah's Tehran University or Amir Kabir's Dar-ul-Fonon dwarf in comparison to it both in beauty and massiveness. Out of this place a brand of Sunnism came out that is called deobandi. During the British Raj, this place used to take Muslim students from all over India, with fully paid scholarship for its several years of study (its policy was zero fee). It was a boarding university, meaning that during the time of the study, the pupil was fully committed, living on university campus and following a grilling and no nonsense schedule of studies. When these scholars were sent back to their villages and cities throughout India, they were appointed "Imams" to mosques and received salaries and food rations from the nearby British army cantonment.

These deobandis were the most loyal subjects that British Raj had among Muslim population of India. They pacified the population, and issued fatwas favorable to British Raj. To the extent that when the British government decided to breakup the British Raj and partition India, the deobandis were the only group in India which opposed it. They preferred to remain British subjects. When they saw that the die is cast and British were about to leave, they opposed the creation of Pakistan, preferring Hindu rule. But British abandoned them and created Pakistan over their objections.

When Pakistan was built, understandably, there was little sympathy for deobandis in this new state. They were almost seen as traitors and they were kept at fringes of political and military power of the new state. This changed during the Bengal uprising. During that uprising the Pakistan army was left alone fighting its own population. The only group that offered help to kill Bengalis was the deobandis. This was their chance to prove that they were "patriotic" Pakistanis. But these efforts failed and Pakistan partitioned in 1971. When West Pakistan became today's Pakistan, they were a defeated and humiliated nation. The political and military elite of Pakistan were in search of giving a new meaning to the demoralized nation of Pakistan. This new version came in the form of a harder Utopian Islam, predominantly deobandi version. Deobandis offered their services to Pakistan's military to unify the broken nation. This almost reached epic proportion under General Zia-ul-Haq's rule who elevated the deobandis from the fringes of political power into the center of the nations power politics. He needed them for his secret war that he was waging on Soviet Union in Afghanistan on the order of United States. In order to make deobandi even more hardcore and capable of withstanding Soviet military, Wahabi/Salafi preachers were imported from Saudi Arabia and these preachers upgraded the deobandis into a monstrous war ideology, which was fiercely anti-communist and anti-Shia. I guess you can figure it out yourself why.

After the Soviet withdrawal, Pakistan thought that it could use this same ideology to take Kashmir from India. But the Indian army in Kashmir did not budge as the Soviet military had in Afghanistan. During this time, a cold war of sorts also happened between Pakistan and Iran each supporting opposite groups in Afghanistan which resulted in Iranian diplomats being hanged in front of Iranian embassy when Taleban took over the embassy. Taleban were the ultimate deobandi force that ever came to existence. For a short while. Until, 9/11 happened. The monster had gone the full circle, hitting New York.

The rest you must know well. US went in to Afghanistan promising to hunt down each one of them "dead or alive". Pakistan till 2008 tried its best to atleast partially protect Taleban elements for later use in Afghanistan/Kashmir. But then the monster again went full circle and had started to hit Pakistan. Still Pakistan tried to protect them, since this ideology had become so central to "unity" of Pakistan and its strategic power, believing that this is just a misunderstanding and the Taleban will soon realize that, Pakistan is their master. But by 2013, it became clear in upper echelon of Pakistan's military structure that this was not a misunderstanding anymore and that Taleban had truly gone full circle, so a plan was put in motion for their complete termination despite strenuous objections of deobandis. Whether Pakistan army will ever be able to finish them is up for debate. But even if they do, new groups will emerge. Since the ideology and sympathies for this ideology is deep rooted in Pakistan's society now.

Now with this history in our hand, you will have the minimum requirement to understand the answer to your question. First of all, you should not underestimate the dark desires of humans, specially those arising from hatred and sense of being back-stabbed. From 1970, Pakistani army has been buddy buddy with this ideology and posing as its true friend. When in 2007, Pakistan army decided that it has had enough of deobandi friendship and attacked their flagship mosque in Islamabad as a warning to deobandis that their special relationship was over, the deobandis felt they had been betrayed and back-stabbed by Pakistan. Since deobandis always saw that Pakistan army eventually some day will become a deobandi army. It was too much for them. It was the second time that they were being betrayed. First by the British and now by Pakistan. So they declared war on Pakistan army.

These kids are just the latest causality of this war. A war that is going on in almost every territory of Pakistan nowadays. The reason, that the kids were targeted is rather technical. You see, Pakistan army is quite a powerful army and relatively well equipped, so taking it head-on is suicidal with no tactical benefit. But killing the children of Pakistan army officers and their teacher wives, drives the message right into the heart of Pakistan army. So attacking a school that caters to the children of personnel of Pakistan army becomes their plan. The choice of target is of course, inhuman and despicable but from the view point of deobandis who practice Takfirism, it is acceptable, since they sincerely believe that they are killing kafer, their wives and their illicitly begotten zena-zadeh children. Their enemies. From their ideology's point of view, Pakistan army has become mortad and thus a fair game along with their families.

Deobandis are searching for an identity, they never had. For a religion, they never had. For a country they never had. For a Utopia that is never possible. They were just a tool. Created and used. Who and for what purpose if at all, they are now being used, is a matter for future historians to ponder over their cup of coffee.

And rest assured, this is not the first or the last tragedy in human history. Take the example of female Chinese and Korean children who were used as sex slaves by Japanese army during the World War II. Each had to cater near to couple of hundred men each day. From morning to night, the soldiers were standing in line, and these little girls used to have a small break for lunch only (usually 10 minutes). Refusal meant torture to death or a quick dispatch to the dreaded and horrifying Unit 731 of Japanese Army for the termination as a test subject. After the war those who survived had told their liberators that they had lost all feelings, emotions, humanity and everything else. This is what happens when there is no religion. And that is what happens when we have "religion".

Few inaccuracies in this post. I will address them soon although I must say you know a lot about South Asian history, more so than I would expect a foreigner to know.

 

[Falcon29]

I am not saying that all muslims are terrorists and I am also not saying that extremists are in minority. Aprrently not. The fact that there more than 10 muslim-majority countries that have ultra ridiculous concepts like issuing death penalty for apostates imposed on STATE LEVEL shows that the extremists are not in minority whereas the number non-muslim countries that have such laws is zero. There are certain rights of people that should not be taken away under any reason and some/most muslim majority countries violate them and that should be criticised, especially if muslim want others to treat them fairly in non-muslim countries. This is a simple fact that many people forget.

Who are the extremists? Count them up. And then decide if they are minority.

 

[KingMamba]

He doesn't have sympathy towards Islamists. He just underlines that extremists are only small part of Islam community which is 1.5 billion of the world population. Actually what you are trying to do is more dangerous. You want to categorize all the Muslims as terrorists. Cenk is agnostic so he wouldn't have anything in common with islamist anyway. I think people get angry at him who are islamophobic. They want Cenk to be like the other main stream media who are bashing and blaming all the muslims for what a couple of idiotic extremist do.

What they do not understand is just because Cenk himself does not believe does not mean he has never interacted with Muslims. In fact he has said on air that his mother is a devout Muslim, now take it from his shoes he has grown up in a Muslim household and no doubt has interacted with hundreds of Muslims throughout his life. No doubt most Muslims he has come across were not islamists and so he keeps that in mind when he talks about these issues. For him to condemn all Muslims would not register in his head and he will always keep the people he has met in the back of his head even if he does not do so purpose.

It is the same as the atheist Jews who call themselves "cultural Jews" they will often condemn other religions but remain less likely to speak up against the faults of their own religion. I actually have a few friends I remember who were like that, both Jewish (they used to even wear the star of david chain but still called themselves atheist) and even one Muslim friend who I later learned was actually atheist. I would say Cenk and my atheist friend from the Muslim background could fall into the "cultural Muslim" section.